OSRAM Street Legal LED Headlight Bulbs.

[jzchen]

If I search carefully I come across OSRAM NIGHT BREAKER LED "(street legal)" bulbs. They've got lists depending on country of domicile whether it is or not based on specific application. It appears we have some very (very) knowledgeable members and I was wondering about safety. Technically if I understand correctly: it is, or was (I don't know if it has been changed), illegal to substitute a different type of bulb in a housing meant for another type. I'm curious in more of a "it performs well enough I'd use them in my listed car".

OSRAM claims x amount more light, (as is usual for performance bulbs). Are they telling the truth?

Thanks for any insight (upfront)!

 

[EJR]

What vehicle make/model/year are you inquiring about?

Honestly, none of Osram "Street legal" LED bulbs are suitable for US/DOT headlamps.

 

[jzchen]

I actually don't have a H4 nor H7 headlamp vehicle in the household. I used to have a '13 Smart ForTwo which takes an H7 if I'm not mistaken, but it was totaled in an accident back in 2017.

I do see some people complaining about frequent bulb burnout on a Prius board, (solution being to add wiring/resistance to the circuit to drop voltage by the time it reaches the bulb. Not fond of that "official" solution, knowing at least some if not quite a bit of these LED options are 12 V/24 V capable, I thought I'd see what was available vs others who've suggested the no name "I'm happy with them" versions.

Thank you for the ultra fast response!

 

[John_Galt]

Legal does not necessarily mean greater (or even equivalent) performing. I have been unimpressed with LED retrofit bulb testing so far, even with units that are designed to provide as close to filament cross secrion and placement as possible, there is no comparison to a well fed high performance halogen bulb.

 

[EJR]

There are particular attributes that a LED bulb must possess in order to be as close as possible to having filament equivalence which therefore increases its optical compatibility. Basically this means that there will be a higher number of lamps that will respond well to the LED bulb if it is designed with certain key features. But even if a "as perfect as can be" LED bulb existed, it still won't be applicable for ALL lamps.

Todays current LED headlight bulb template, which is comprised of two opposing sides of LED chips mounted to a PCB and mounted to an aluminum body, is physically incapable of fully replicating the emission behavior of a filament bulb. As long as LED bulbs continue to be designed this way, they will NEVER achieve 100% filament equivalence.

The image below compares how a typical LED bulb configuration appears in relation to a filament. The separation between the LED chips, where the PCB and/or aluminum body would reside, is one of the major factors for an improperly focused beam. The larger the separation from the light source reference axis, the worse the beam becomes. The smaller the separation, the better the beam becomes.

Here we see how the filaments emission in the far field behaves in the optics.

And here we see how LED behaves in the same optics. Basically there are surfaces on the reflector that do not receive sufficient light. And these surfaces contribute to the beam. And since many lamps are designed optically different from one another, the portions of the beam that suffer will also be different.

Furthermore, the LED chips being sourced for these bulbs are too big. The emitting surface of the dies exceeds the boundaries of the filament which can lead to glare.

And WORSE of all is the position of the LED chips. This is VERY critical to the focus of the beam. And from my testing, mostly all LED bulbs do not position the array at the correct *optimal* location.

 

[Mosports]

If I search carefully I come across OSRAM NIGHT BREAKER LED "(street legal)" bulbs. They've got lists depending on country of domicile whether it is or not based on specific application. It appears we have some very (very) knowledgeable members and I was wondering about safety. Technically if I understand correctly: it is, or was (I don't know if it has been changed), illegal to substitute a different type of bulb in a housing meant for another type. I'm curious in more of a "it performs well enough I'd use them in my listed car".

OSRAM claims x amount more light, (as is usual for performance bulbs). Are they telling the truth?

Thanks for any insight (upfront)!

I just received a pair of OSRAM NIGHT BREAKER LED "(street legal)" bulbs in H4 configurtion. As soon as I install them in my '95 Miata with Hella 7" ECE headlamps I will let you know how they perform vs the Hella High Peformance 2.0 bulbs in there now. Its still too They were certifed with an ECE (E1) which is Germany. Germany is generally regarded as the most difficult ECE approval.

The real problem still exists that ECE (the rest of the world, but us) headlamps have a much sharper cutoff that controls the amount of stray light and thus glare. Our standards for headlamps are so close that certain headlamps are dual certified VW Golf VI is one example. I ordered in some ECE headlamps for a customer's new Golf and they arrived we discovered that the p/n molded into the lamp was the same and the lamps were marked DOT ECE. We could convert to ECE in a heartbeat and save billions of dollars by:

• Not having to manufacture one set of lamps for import/export.
• Not having to crash test the same vehicles here as they do in Europe.
• And many more.

This used to be a hot subject, but not much mention any more

 

[EJR]

I just received a pair of OSRAM NIGHT BREAKER LED "(street legal)" bulbs in H4 configurtion. As soon as I install them in my '95 Miata with Hella 7" ECE headlamps I will let you know how they perform vs the Hella High Peformance 2.0 bulbs in there now. Its still too They were certifed with an ECE (E1) which is Germany. Germany is generally regarded as the most difficult ECE approval.

To be clear, the NBLED "legal" bulbs are only certified to specific countries and their respective vehicle compatibility list. The certification process involves third party photometric lab testing. Osram contracts with TÜV-Süd who runs each headlamp through their test procedures. The main test involves the compliance of the beams to UNECE R112. If it meets the photometric requirements its likely to be added to the "approval" list. Some headlamps will pass, some will fail. But it really boils down to the optics.

There is a 50/50 chance though that your Hella ECE lamps will respond well to the NBLED just like any other lamp.

 

[jzchen]

Thanks everyone for the input!

It is my understanding that just a few years ago Virgil and Alaric would immediately answer "NO" to the whisper of LED headlamp bulb.

I realize the "good enough" is not the same as equivalent from my testing of ZEVO 7440 per Virgil's test sequence. The light output is just not the same as a filament. Everything looks the same until I compared the pattern when shone on a wall. The incandescent lit up a larger area.

@EJR those graphics are awesome thank you for sharing them! Do you think that the 50/50 will be improved upon or that's as good as we'll ever get?

 

[DRW]

It is my understanding that just a few years ago Virgil and Alaric would immediately answer "NO" to the whisper of LED headlamp bulb.

NO isn't an answer and good riddance.
@EJR Nice work.

 

[id30209]

I have a pair of These in my Golf Mk2 and they are absolutely outstanding. Maybe in newer cars won't do much but i n these oldtimers they really make a difference.
And they are certified for a road use here in EU.

 

[EJR]

those graphics are awesome thank you for sharing them! Do you think that the 50/50 will be improved upon or that's as good as we'll ever get?

The compatibility ratio would improve some if the LED bulb was designed with careful attention towards the critical areas that I explained prior. But even still, again, it could never achieve full universal status - not with its current design.

A completely newly designed LED retrofit bulb, something we have not yet seen before, may just be the ticket. There are some interesting concepts out there and a few filed patents that give us a glimpse of some of these unconventional designs. How well they actually work in practice is another thing though. There are some technological limiting factors that may be delaying a suitable universally working model.

Here are some interesting Osram designs: 1, 2, 3

And Philips (Lumileds): 1, 2

I personally like the idea of a thin light tube or rod sitting over a high intensity LED array. If the end of the rod could emit the same type of emission as a filament, and produce sufficient luminance, and with minimal stray light and/or blockage from the rod, in theory, it may be a better solution than the LED designs of today. That's just me playing pretend optical engineer though, lol.

 

[John_Galt]

That's an excellent post there @EJR ! Much better than a simple "No," and (not) supporting the argument against their use.

 

[PhotonMaster3]

Ha just when I thought my flashlight obsession couldn't get worse. Now I'm wondering about the myriad possibilities of headlight emitters I could get

 

[alpg88]

Why bother trying to invent a led that will work in halogen designed optics, when you can manufacture optics that is designed for a led. Give it another 10 years and all those led, hid retrofits will disappear the way aftermarket stereos did. Now even econoboxes come with led lights from a factory. those some still use bulbs for turn signals, luxury brands phased out bulbs years ago. go find a 60+k car that has halogen bulbs today, you wont find any.

 

[EJR]

Why bother trying to invent a led that will work in halogen designed optics,

Because there are still millions of halogen equipped vehicles on the road today and will be for the next few decades. These LED bulbs would significantly improve lighting performance which improves safety. And it also means big money to be made.

when you can manufacture optics that is designed for a led.

That has already been discussed by U.S. and EU vehicle lighting task forces. A future cost effective LED headlamp that would be designed to a new category of a *standardized replaceable bulb LED*. This would likely be targeted for base economy model vehicles. Then as you move up in trim and price the LED headlamp optics and output improve.

Maybe something like:

Base trim = replaceable LED bulb lamp
Mid trim = LED projector(s) (non replaceable)
Top trim = ADB enabled multi LED projector system (non replaceable)

Give it another 10 years and all those led, hid retrofits will disappear the way aftermarket stereos did.

If in the near future a LED retrofit bulb designed for halogen lamps (and possibly xenon lamps) is ever developed, standardized and accepted/recognized by DOT, I would at least *hope* that all those shitaki LED bulbs on the market would all disappear. They would then have to re-design them to meet the NEW standards.

 

[John_Galt]

I don't see Halogen going away, one for the market share it still commands, and two, because it can handle environments at a low price point that LED would be hard pressed to survive (e.g. environments with extreme cold, where additional circuitry and power will be needed to heat lenses to keep them uncovered, whereas the technical innefficiency of a halogens "wasted" heat becomes useful.

 

[eggsalad]

Any automotive lighting fixture without replaceable elements is an absolutely horrible idea. There's a certain Cadillac convertible (XLR, maybe?) that has LED tail lights that are known to fail. GM doesn't offer replacement units. Neither does the aftermarket. NOS units have all been bought up.

Can you imagine owning a working automobile that can't be made road legal for want of a tail light? Ridiculous!

 

[alpg88]

I don't see Halogen going away,...............

Then you are not looking hard enough, or not looking at all, they are already going away. i see more and more new compact cars in our shop with led headlights, even base trims. in 10 years you wont see many halogens except maybe cheap bare bones work trucks. 10 years ago only few none luxury cars had leds as option.

 

[alpg88]

Any automotive lighting fixture without replaceable elements is an absolutely horrible idea. There's a certain Cadillac convertible (XLR, maybe?) that has LED tail lights that are known to fail. GM doesn't offer replacement units. Neither does the aftermarket. NOS units have all been bought up.

Can you imagine owning a working automobile that can't be made road legal for want of a tail light? Ridiculous!

There are plenty of xlr tail lights sold on the internet, original, and aftermarket. there is also xlr forum that has plenty of info where to get spare lights or fix yours.

 

[chillinn]

These LED bulbs would significantly improve lighting performance which improves safety.

This is known as proof by assertion, and it is a fallacy. What can be said is LED are more efficient and therefore brighter. But the fact of the matter is LED lighting, even with the best High CRI options, is still inferior to incandescent lighting, and LED is especially inferior to halogen, regarding what can be seen. What can be seen is what it is all about, not brightness. No matter how much bias you hold towards LED and brightness, if your eyes are human, you can see more with with a broad spectrum but dimmer and warmer halogen than you can with a narrower and cooler, bluer spectrum LED, even though it is brighter.

And there is a categorical imperative here, because there are other drivers on the road. Would you prefer to look into bright, blinding blue light? There's a reason it's illegal to drive with high beams facing traffic, because it is blinding. The LED lights you want to use, which in fact do not let you see more, will blind opposing traffic.

If you want to improve safety, drive slower at night.