Osram Xenarc Night Breaker Unlimited HIDs

[MTerrence]

Hello again!

I'm just wondering if anyone on this website will have heard of these products. Osram claims that they offer 70% more light, and up to a 20m longer beam, than a standard Xenon lamp. (The bulbs also claim to be 5% whiter, but I have read enough around here to know that this is a nonsense parameter and need not go into it any further.)

I have included a link here.

Knowing what I do now, I am skeptical that the improvements are truly that great; surely they would still have to meet the same lumen and geometry specification as any other approved lamp for a given performance category, right?

That said, I do know that there are some halogen lamps that use very careful control of geometry, clever partial bulb shading, and full exploitation of allowable lumen tolerances, such as the Osram Night Breaker Unlimited or Philips Xtreme Vision, to provide better performance than the average for their category. I think it's therefore very possible that there is at least something there, even if not as much as what Osram's marketers think they can get away with claiming.

SO: Are these actually any "brighter" than your average Philips or GE HID lamp?

My application in this case would be a 2013 Lexus GS 350 AWD, which takes D4S lamps. (Those who have seen my posts before know that I used to drive a Honda Accord. I have since changed vehicles.) When my bulbs burn out, would there be any profit in grabbing something like this or whatever similar product may exist at that time, or should I just go grab some OEM parts from the dealer as a replacement?

Thanks!

Edit for clarification of intent: More generally, are there any legally-compliant higher-performance HID lamps in the D4S category, as there are for halogens?

 

[-Virgil-]

HID bulbs lose intensity with usage to a greater extent than halogen bulbs. Typical halogen bulb lumen maintenance is 90% at end of rated lifespan (lower than that for long-life types); typical HID bulb lumen maintenance is 70% or worse. And as they age, their voltage requirement increases which makes life harder on the ballast and ignitor. You're wise to replace them on a periodic-maintenance basis. As for what bulb to choose, yes, the Osram Night Breaker D4S is enough better than a standard bulb that they're worth buying from a reliable source ("reliable source" is important to avoid Chinese counterfeits). Yes, they have to meet the same specs as all others, but as with all other bulb types, there's an allowable range of performance large enough to be worth seeking the bulb at the top of the range. I don't think there's a Philips Xtreme Vision D4S, but if there is, that'd be equally as worthy as the Osram Night Breaker.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

One thing I like already about the Xenarc offering is the color temperature, which they describe as "up to" 4350 K. (The Philips X-Treme Vision is 4800 K; the Philips Xenon Vision, 4600 K.)

Powerbulbs has what looks like a pretty darn good price on a two-pack of the D2S, what my LS430 uses.

(Stop me before I buy AGAIN!)

 

[MTerrence]

HID bulbs lose intensity with usage to a greater extent than halogen bulbs. Typical halogen bulb lumen maintenance is 90% at end of rated lifespan (lower than that for long-life types); typical HID bulb lumen maintenance is 70% or worse. And as they age, their voltage requirement increases which makes life harder on the ballast and ignitor. You're wise to replace them on a periodic-maintenance basis. As for what bulb to choose, yes, the Osram Night Breaker D4S is enough better than a standard bulb that they're worth buying from a reliable source ("reliable source" is important to avoid Chinese counterfeits). Yes, they have to meet the same specs as all others, but as with all other bulb types, there's an allowable range of performance large enough to be worth seeking the bulb at the top of the range. I don't think there's a Philips Xtreme Vision D4S, but if there is, that'd be equally as worthy as the Osram Night Breaker.

Wonderful - I see that the source I found turned out to be good.

I don't mind the idea of replacing on a preventive-maintenance basis, so long as it is along a sane schedule.

Would you care to issue a recommendation or at least some guidance as to how frequently they should be replaced on a preventive-maintenance basis - in terms of kilometres or some other observable metric of performance (e.g. ignition problems, colour shift, what-have-you)?

I tried to derive a value based on the published B3 lifespan figures for a xenon bulb, but the number I came out with seemed unusually high and thus I presume that there are other factors that might influence the product's lifespan and confound my calculation - so it's best just to ask.

On a few unrelated notes,

1) It is my understanding that the Stanley bulbs that typically come with Honda products are considered to be among the best incandescent lamps available for functions such as turn signals and backing lights. I did find a thread on this forum that contains a list of Honda part numbers cross-referenced against bulb types.

Would it be worth seeking out these parts as replacements if any of my turn signals or backup lights should happen to burn out, or would the Toyota/Lexus parts provided at the dealer be just about as good? This is a fairly obscure answer, but if there's anyone on the internet who would know, it's probably you.

2) Philips has come out with a supposedly compliant LED fog lamp replacements for H8/H11/H16 applications, the Philips X-TremeVision LED. Given that fog lamp bulbs need almost never be used and thus would be unlikely to burn out, would I be correct in presuming that these represent a solution in search of a problem? Or would there actually be some advantages to these? After some extensive digging around, I was able to find product sheets that claimed that these produced 700 lumens in either white or yellow - which would, ceteris paribus, be far less than the 1350 my H11 fog lamps are supposed to put out.

3) Speaking of Philips, LEDs and turn signals, Philips has come out with some LED turn signal and brake light replacements that are supposed to actually meet incandescent specifications. They're only red thus far, but if they ever come out with ones in the correct colour, would they be worth pursuing?

One thing I like already about the Xenarc offering is the color temperature, which they describe as "up to" 4350 K. (The Philips X-Treme Vision is 4800 K; the Philips Xenon Vision, 4600 K.)

Powerbulbs has what looks like a pretty darn good price on a two-pack of the D2S, what my LS430 uses.

(Stop me before I buy AGAIN!)

You have an LS430 now? Niiiiiice! Fantastic car, that. You have good taste.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

Would you care to issue a recommendation or at least some guidance as to how frequently they should be replaced on a preventive-maintenance basis - in terms of kilometres or some other observable metric of performance (e.g. ignition problems, colour shift, what-have-you)?

Ignition problems would be easier to spot than color shift, which is pretty gradual unless something goes way wrong.

Once every 18mo isn't too terribly expensive or wasteful, but it depends not only on hours burned but frequency of ignitions. The LS430 tries to ignite the lows on a "flash-to-pass", it seems.

It is my understanding that the Stanley bulbs that typically come with Honda products are considered to be among the best halogen lamps available for functions such as turn signals and backing lights.

Those aren't halogens, but they're good. The Stanley 3496 is a good dual-filament bulb with good output, long life, and slow blackening. Lexus/Toyota use Koito bulbs typically (although you might see some Stanley cropping up-- sometimes they make entire lamp assemblies for Toyota vehicles in my recent memory). Other than the 3496, I might not go out of my way for a Stanley vs. Koito.

Philips has come out with a supposedly compliant LED fog lamp replacements for H8/H11/H16 applications, the Philips X-TremeVision LED. Given that fog lamp bulbs need almost never be used and thus would be unlikely to burn out, would I be correct in presuming that these represent a solution in search of a problem?

They may not always work in every fog lamp. I'd just leave them turned off or replace them with an X-Treme Vision 9006 (for the HB4 fog lamps) when needed.

You have an LS430 now? Niiiiiice! Fantastic car, that. You have good taste.

Thanks! It's 'new-to-me'-- it's an '05. I felt I had to outdo my '99 RX300-owning friend. (Actually, it was just a tremendous deal and extremely well-kept. My wife practically ordered me to buy it, too.) On thing I'll do is the markerflash mod; I did it on my friend's RX300 and on that one I really feel it adds some safety, even in the daytime (or perhaps more in the daytime; previously people at certain angles wouldn't have any hint my turn signal was on like they would be seeing the road light up with the signals at night).

 

[-Virgil-]

I don't mind the idea of replacing on a preventive-maintenance basis, so long as it is along a sane schedule. Would you care to issue a recommendation or at least some guidance as to how frequently they should be replaced on a preventive-maintenance basis - in terms of kilometres or some other observable metric of performance (e.g. ignition problems, colour shift, what-have-you)?

Well, ignition problems or color shift are "replace it now" indicators. If you do a normal amount of driving (say 15,000 miles or so per year, that's 24,000 km) and the HID headlamps are running about half the time you're driving, you might want to replace the bulbs every five years or so.

It is my understanding that the Stanley bulbs that typically come with Honda products are considered to be among the best halogen lamps available for functions such as turn signals and backing lights.

They aren't halogen, for those functions, but yes, Stanley makes excellent bulbs. So does Koito.

Would it be worth seeking out these parts as replacements if any of my turn signals or backup lights should happen to burn out, or would the Toyota/Lexus parts provided at the dealer be just about as good?

Depends if the dealer is dishing up Koito bulbs or generic aftermarket dreck (Sylvania, etc). I've seen it both ways.

Philips has come out with a supposedly compliant LED fog lamp replacements for H8/H11/H16 applications

It produces a compliant beam in some fog lamps that take those bulb types, that's all. In (many) others it does not, and it does not in headlamps.

Given that fog lamp bulbs need almost never be used and thus would be unlikely to burn out, would I be correct in presuming that these represent a solution in search of a problem?

Well, it's the solution to the "problem" of "Waaaaaaaah! My fog lites have an orange-yellow-brown ting and they don't match my HID headlamps, waaaaaaaaaah!" temper tantrums thrown by dumb kids of all ages who can't get it through their greasy meatheads that the fog lamps should basically never be turned on.

Bottom line, you're correct, the LED fog lamp bulbs are not worth spending money on.

Speaking of Philips, LEDs and turn signals, Philips has come out with some LED turn signal and brake light replacements that are supposed to actually meet halogen specifications.

No, that's not the case. They (and Sylvania) have come out with some LED turn signal and brake light bulbs that permit some lamps designed to take incandescent bulbs to work correctly. Some (many) others do not work acceptably with the LED bulbs. There's some discussion here. Sylvania's Zevo replacements for the metal-base (1156, 1157, P21W, etc) and plastic-base (3156, 3157, etc) are very well designed and work well in a fair number of lamps that use reflectors to gather the light -- they are useless in lamps that use fresnel (ring) optics in the lens for that purpose, because the "top" of the bulb is dark. The Sylvania Zevo glass-base (7440, 7443, W21W, etc) LED replacements are useless; no idea why they didn't use the same design on those. The Philips Xtreme Vision LED bulbs for metal-base types (plus their replacement for 921/W16W) are really good in a surprisingly large number of lamps, but again, not all of them. The Philips Vision LED bulbs for metal, plastic, and glass base types are another mixed bag: they work well in some lamps, OK in some lamps, and very poorly/not at all in others. Stern's got a pretty good descriptive writeup at here.

 

[-Virgil-]

One thing I like already about the Xenarc offering is the color temperature, which they describe as "up to" 4350 K. (The Philips X-Treme Vision is 4800 K; the Philips Xenon Vision, 4600 K.)

Yeah, but I don't know if I'd put much weight on their being much actual difference among all these bulbs' alleged color temperatures of these Philips/Osram bulbs. Maybe a little, maybe enough to notice side-by-side, but I'd bet there's not a huge visual difference between the "4350K" and the "4800K" bulbs.

(Stop me before I buy AGAIN!)

Well, Koito has some interesting D2S options that aren't very easy but aren't hopelessly difficult to buy outside of Japan. They offer a 4000-lumen D2S and a low-CCT "3900K" D2S and probably some others, too.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

Yeah, but I don't know if I'd put much weight on their being much actual difference among all these bulbs' alleged color temperatures of these Philips/Osram bulbs. Maybe a little, maybe enough to notice side-by-side, but I'd bet there's not a huge visual difference between the "4350K" and the "4800K" bulbs.

They may be closer to each other than I think, but any chance to skew light less towards blue, I'll take. 3900 K might be purty. I might like those, even though it may be more an aesthetic than a true performance difference. Considering my night-driving glasses are selective yellow, this means more useful light reaching my eyes than all the extra blue getting stripped out.

I don't know how long the D2S bulbs have been in this vehicle, but so far am not aware of any problems (they strike instantly and reach full brightness pretty quickly); the service history doesn't show they were ever changed. I searched for "light", "hid", "H.I.D.", "capsule" and similar.

INSPECT WIPER OPERATION CHECK INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR LIGHTS

but no indication of replacing lights.

I know a guy with close ties to Toyota; maybe he can help me find the D2S bulbs I want.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

The Philips Xtreme Vision LED bulbs for metal-base types (plus their replacement for 921/W16W) are really good in a surprisingly large number of lamps, but again, not all of them. The Philips Vision LED bulbs for metal, plastic, and glass base types are another mixed bag: they work well in some lamps, OK in some lamps, and very poorly/not at all in others.

To my slightly-more-well-trained-than-the-average-person's eye, the Philips 921 LED bulbs for the reversing lamps on the '01 Corolla and the '05 LS430 *seem* to work really well. Sadly, the 6000 K color temperature makes that same bulb NOT a good replacement for the CHMSL location because of what the light looks like through a red lens.

 

[MTerrence]

Thanks for the advice, guys - I'll definitely put the Osram HIDs on my list for preventive replacement a couple years down the road. (Here's hoping Koito comes out with those novel HIDs in D4S format, too!) I just want to say that I really appreciate the opportunity to get some more reliable advice. Some people seem less interested in actual lighting performance than they are in increasing CCT as part of an inexorable trek toward the near ultraviolet region.

Virgil, thank you for the extremely helpful description of the issues still involved in the Philips and Sylvania LED replacements for incandescent bulbs. It would seem to me that the only exterior light I could reasonably replace on my car is the W16W back-up light, as there seems to be no appropriate amber 7444NA front signal LED light or clear W21W/7440 rear turn signal LED light yet produced.

As for the backup lights, as they seem to be operating fine and are unlikely to burn out any time soon, I'll leave them as is.

This leads to an ancillary question of: why bother with LED drop-in replacements for incandescent bulbs in the automotive field, anyway? I am not referring here to things like the JW Speaker LED sealed beam replacements - just to the drop-in products we discussed earlier. Is it just a marketing thing, where Philips saw that they had an opportunity to take a profit from a market segment that would be willing to pay for any replacement for an incandescent bulb on a mistaken presumption of inherent superiority?

It looks to me as though, when my incandescent bulbs burn out, I should just replace them with the same incandescents. Would you say that's mostly accurate?