Pandemic-the light at the end of the tunnel

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ledbetter

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People say they want capitalism until it gets personal and then they're socialists because the cost of saving their life is too expensive. This country has yet to figure out the balance. Also, without the financial motivation, would these drugs even have been conceived? For altruistic motivations? Sounds naive.
 

jtr1962

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People say they want capitalism until it gets personal and then they're socialists because the cost of saving their life is too expensive. This country has yet to figure out the balance. Also, without the financial motivation, would these drugs even have been conceived? For altruistic motivations? Sounds naive.
If they stopped having drug commercials, the cost of these drugs would be a lot less. Also, there's not much value in advertising prescription drugs to laypeople, and telling them to "ask their doctor". In fact, maybe we should allow doctors to bill drug companies for all the time they waste discussing a drug their patients saw advertised on TV.

Another issue is the price charged for drugs often doesn't reflect the manufacturing cost and making a reasonable profit. Rather, it's charging whatever the market will bear. Yes, there's also the cost of R&D, but often the determinant of whether to even try to develop a new drug is based on how many people they can sell that drug to. Drugs which completely cure conditions after a few doses might not make the cut, whereas those which people have to take for life will. And then you have perverse incentives to keep drugs off the market which might cure a condition for which they weren't originally developed. Case in point is GS-441524. Gilead originally developed the drug to treat Ebola in the early 2010s. It has since been used in drugs like remdesivir to treat covid-19. Another use for the drug was discovered, namely to treat cats with FIP, which is normally close to 100% fatal. Despite thousands of people using black market versions of the drug to cure their cats of FIP, Gilead refuses to license the drug for veterinary use. I wonder how many other drugs suffered a similar fate, perhaps forcing people or animals to live with conditions which could have been cured.

Finally, while some people are born with conditions which require drugs to stay alive, the vast majority of people taking drugs would no longer need them with simple lifestyle changes. The current system however favors expensive interventions over prevention or low-cost cures because there's no money in the latter two things. That's a failure of a for-profit system. A healthcare system paid for solely by taxes would favor prevention because doing so would reduce overall tax rates. Also, no reason government funded labs can't also do drug research, then manufacture and sell the drugs they develop at cost. Look at how many things came out of research NASA did, for example. Many of these things never would have been developed otherwise because the long-term profit potential was either non-existent or poor.
 
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bykfixer

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I had hoped this thread would remain on topic regarding light at the end of the pandemic tunnel and not go off on the usual tangents of the previous (closed) ones.
:shakehead
IBC………
 

jtr1962

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I had hoped this thread would remain on topic regarding light at the end of the pandemic tunnel and not go off on the usual tangents of the previous (closed) ones.
:shakehead
IBC………
Maybe the mods should put the side discussion about big pharma into another thread? I think it's a worthwhile topic, but probably doesn't belong in this thread.
 

jtr1962

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Probably better in the Underground, here: http://www.cpfunderground.com/index.html
Or just avoid anything overtly political in our discussion. I'm more interested in how profit motives determine which drugs see the light of day, and which don't, as well as what's technically possible without those motivations. For example, by guaranteeing to purchase x doses of the vaccines, the government essentially covered any risk the drug companies were taking that the vaccine wouldn't work. The gamble paid off big time. Maybe we should do this for other conditions where drug companies might be on the fence if it's worth their while to develop a drug.
 
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wacbzz

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People say they want capitalism until it gets personal and then they're socialists because the cost of saving their life is too expensive. This country has yet to figure out the balance. Also, without the financial motivation, would these drugs even have been conceived? For altruistic motivations? Sounds naive.

Not sure who you've talked to, but how apropos your last bit.
 

jtr1962

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Can't get it for me or my mother until they have mobile vaccination vans. My mother has zero mobility, and I can't leave her alone long enough to go to one of the vaccination sites and wait in line for hours. Not to mention doing that is a great way to expose myself to infection, given that mask wearing is becoming a lot more lax, even in NYC. So my game plan is when they have the vaccination vans I make an appointment, and they do both of us. If it's the two-dose vaccine I assume they'll automatically book us for the second shot some weeks later.
 

Poppy

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I can SEE a light. I hope it's not a train :eek:

I am currently spending some time with my sister and our dad. The three of us are now seniors, and they each got their second shot yesterday. Initially we were extremely careful and only left the house once every two weeks, but now we leave almost daily on little excursions, maybe to the bank, or pharmacy, or a quick pick up at the grocery store. We go food shopping weekly.

There are two senior ladies that we visit, or they come here, twice a week. They got their second shot yesterday also. They too have been very careful, and we all wear our masks whenever in a public place.

Still we don't eat out, and don't dilly dally in the stores.

Two High School friends are house shopping in our area and stayed here two nights. Also Seniors, and vaccinated.

Except for my Dad, (who can in no way qualify as being young), we are young healthy seniors, and we felt comfortable spending time together without wearing masks. It felt good :)

I hope that's not a train I see coming, but there is a light!
 

bykfixer

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If your pop can still drive himself to Florida and back I'd say that qualifies as "young enough"……Whatcha think?

My neighbor in her mid 90's drive where ever she wants to but says "I've been everywhere I wanted to go and seen everything I wanted to see" so she gets in her little fire engine red S-10 pickup truck and takes a drive a few laps around the city to charge the battery from time to time.

Cases in my state have dropped pretty steadily recently but still hover in the 2k per day range. I don't check the death clock anymore. No need, the one minute news updates on the radio reminds us every hour and half hour everyday. So I'll be glad when they purge that from the daily gloom report.
 

orbital

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... I don't check the death clock anymore. No need, the one minute news updates on the radio reminds us every hour and half hour everyday. So I'll be glad when they purge that from the daily gloom report.

+

Death clock? guessing specifically for people who are panicky types or become truly unglued easily.

When 9/11 happened, I could see my a couple of my roommates start to loose it, like the world was coming to an end.
There was a blood drive that popped up and one of my roommates was running around to get people to hurry & his voice was cracking in panic.

The same type of person who couldn't turn off the news this last year,,, voice cracking/panicky types.

No, the world hasn't come to an end,
not in 2001 or 2020
 

SCEMan

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My wife and I are flying to visit our kids/grandkids (5 & 3) next week. We've had both vaccinations and feel pretty comfortable traveling. In fact we've flown 2x to visit them (pre-vaccinated) already since last November w/o issues.
 

markr6

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I VERY reluctantly scheduled my shot...only a short 6 WEEKS away. That'll give me even more time to consider "should I really do this?" I was trying to get the Johnson & Johnson one-shot deal, but it's 40 minutes in the wrong direction the day I head south for a trip, so I had to pass.
 

jtr1962

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Hopefully that will happen. So far thanks to the rapid vaccine rollout it looks like we're mitigating the 4th wave Europe is now experiencing. New case numbers are flat. I'd rather see them declining, but flat is better than increasing. The number of deaths is still dropping, probably because the more vulnerable have been vaccinated in higher numbers. Deaths are what matters more here anyway, not case numbers.
 

markr6

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There may be a 4th one soon in America. Now if they can produce at the rate of the other 3 we may be at 50% by July 4th.

They're estimating July 31 but that depends on if things change. They're worried about the "vaccine-hesitant" which could pump the brakes on this thing. I'm still there. I have mine scheduled but deep down I really want to pass.
 

idleprocess

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They're estimating July 31 but that depends on if things change. They're worried about the "vaccine-hesitant" which could pump the brakes on this thing. I'm still there. I have mine scheduled but deep down I really want to pass.

Conversely, I'm eagerly awaiting my second dose in 2 weeks. I might have introverted tendencies but the year of this pandemic has reminded me that I miss people. I'm not entirely sure what I'm going to do 2 weeks after that second dose when immunity kicks in, but it's going to involve something other than spending almost 100% of my time within the confines of my residence.
 

markr6

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I guess for me nothing has really changed so I'm just getting the shot to play along hoping it helps everyone as a whole. I go out to dinner with friends that aren't staying home, but some are. I go to work, shopping, cycle, kayak, backpacking, museum with my son, etc. It's actually nice with less people and traffic. That'll be a rude awakening when everyone goes back to work...but some are saying they no longer even have an office at work.

If I haven't already had covid-19 by this point (without knowing it) it would be the biggest miracle. I went to get an antibody test but I think they're busy with vaccines now so I passed.
 
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