senecaripple
Flashlight Enthusiast
could face 20 years in prison. what could that do to our hobby? is this deja vu with the 1968 gun law? will we be required to register our lasers with the fbi? will we need a permit to carry a laser?
patriot act used on banasch for lasing pilot.
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Raccoon
Enlightened
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2004
- Messages
- 631
Yeah. Pretty much the same thing told to us months ago.<ul type="square">Banach, 38, faces up to 20 years in prison if convicted of interference with pilots of an aircraft "with reckless disregard for the safety of human life," a provision of the USA Patriot Act passed following the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.[/list]I wonder if he could get the charges dropped by stating that he seriously regarded the human life aboard that plane and scientifically deduced that no harm would befall them. He could conclude that because no harm befell them, his conclusion was correct, regard proven, defense rests.
senecaripple
Flashlight Enthusiast
he was charged today along with perjury. lied to the fbi. indited. he'll be facing the music,with no pink floyd laser light show.
[ QUOTE ]
Raccoon said:
Yeah. Pretty much the same thing told to us months ago.<ul type="square">Banach, 38, faces up to 20 years in prison if convicted of interference with pilots of an aircraft "with reckless disregard for the safety of human life," a provision of the USA Patriot Act passed following the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.[/list]I wonder if he could get the charges dropped by stating that he seriously regarded the human life aboard that plane and scientifically deduced that no harm would befall them. He could conclude that because no harm befell them, his conclusion was correct, regard proven, defense rests.
[/ QUOTE ]
Regardless, its illegal. Full stop. Some one has to be made accountable and an example of, so that this craziness will stop.
i hope he gets the 20 years, and even the half mil fine associated with this offense as well.
Just remember its people like this that are jeprodising our hobby. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif
Raccoon said:
Yeah. Pretty much the same thing told to us months ago.<ul type="square">Banach, 38, faces up to 20 years in prison if convicted of interference with pilots of an aircraft "with reckless disregard for the safety of human life," a provision of the USA Patriot Act passed following the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.[/list]I wonder if he could get the charges dropped by stating that he seriously regarded the human life aboard that plane and scientifically deduced that no harm would befall them. He could conclude that because no harm befell them, his conclusion was correct, regard proven, defense rests.
[/ QUOTE ]
Regardless, its illegal. Full stop. Some one has to be made accountable and an example of, so that this craziness will stop.
i hope he gets the 20 years, and even the half mil fine associated with this offense as well.
Just remember its people like this that are jeprodising our hobby. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif
14C
Enlightened
The guy screwed up. We all have.
It's bogus to crucify him no matter what the reason.
HOWEVER...what he is going through should be an eye opener and a warning to all. We should be lucky for the education in the way things work even if the smell of the operation sometimes gets to us.
I hope they let him off with a fine personally. The publicity surrounding the case should persuade others of the potential consequences of such actions and serve as ample warning.
People are now aware...or should be...that such actions are criminal and will not be taken lightly.
Woe be unto the NEXT person who does something stupid now that notice has been served but let this poor soul go home and continue to make a living and support his family.
It's bogus to crucify him no matter what the reason.
HOWEVER...what he is going through should be an eye opener and a warning to all. We should be lucky for the education in the way things work even if the smell of the operation sometimes gets to us.
I hope they let him off with a fine personally. The publicity surrounding the case should persuade others of the potential consequences of such actions and serve as ample warning.
People are now aware...or should be...that such actions are criminal and will not be taken lightly.
Woe be unto the NEXT person who does something stupid now that notice has been served but let this poor soul go home and continue to make a living and support his family.
Bob_Ulhedd
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2005
- Messages
- 36
[ QUOTE ]
could face 20 years in prison. what could that do to our hobby? is this deja vu with the 1968 gun law? will we be required to register our lasers with the fbi? will we need a permit to carry a laser?
[/ QUOTE ] The gun control advocates in the United States blame guns not the criminal using the gun. I believe it is more appropriate to punish the criminal than to outlaw the instrument. Twenty years in prison seem fine for this criminal use of a laser.
could face 20 years in prison. what could that do to our hobby? is this deja vu with the 1968 gun law? will we be required to register our lasers with the fbi? will we need a permit to carry a laser?
[/ QUOTE ] The gun control advocates in the United States blame guns not the criminal using the gun. I believe it is more appropriate to punish the criminal than to outlaw the instrument. Twenty years in prison seem fine for this criminal use of a laser.
guntotin_fool
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 184
I think he has done nothing wrong at all. After all, rescue lasers are sold constantly for the sole purpose of lighting up an aircraft cockpit. I think this is a bunch of yahoo Fibbie guys who got a woodie for a poor SOB who was playing in his back yard, It was not a weapons grade laser, it was a toy, I am willing to bet if anyone tried to replicate the event, it would be found that the pilot overeacted and filed a report because he got startled.
DROP the case, there was no crime.
DROP the case, there was no crime.
Pila_Power
Enlightened
I dunno how lenient his term should be, he put the lives of a couple of hundred people at risk. Considering that most of those coupla hundred people have families etc if the plane went down - fill in the blanks.
I mean, aiming intentionally at a pilot who controls the plane (autopilot aside). Fry him I say.
If it was me on that plane and I heard about it I would be very concerned.
Of course, all this is IMHO /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I mean, aiming intentionally at a pilot who controls the plane (autopilot aside). Fry him I say.
If it was me on that plane and I heard about it I would be very concerned.
Of course, all this is IMHO /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
14C
Enlightened
People who use cell phones in their cars put the lives of hundreds of pepole at risk every day although not all at once maybe.
Maybe it IS time to start punishing IGNORANCE with the death penalty on the first arrest.
Maybe it IS time to start punishing IGNORANCE with the death penalty on the first arrest.
[ QUOTE ]
guntotin_fool said:
I think he has done nothing wrong at all. After all, rescue lasers are sold constantly for the sole purpose of lighting up an aircraft cockpit. I think this is a bunch of yahoo Fibbie guys who got a woodie for a poor SOB who was playing in his back yard, It was not a weapons grade laser, it was a toy, I am willing to bet if anyone tried to replicate the event, it would be found that the pilot overeacted and filed a report because he got startled.
DROP the case, there was no crime.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pigs a**. Take a look at the sticky at the top of this page......
well my stance has always stayed the same. Its unacceptable. And illegal. And he knew better.
A grown man for christ sake. This isn't a child who doesn't know right from wrong.
guntotin_fool said:
I think he has done nothing wrong at all. After all, rescue lasers are sold constantly for the sole purpose of lighting up an aircraft cockpit. I think this is a bunch of yahoo Fibbie guys who got a woodie for a poor SOB who was playing in his back yard, It was not a weapons grade laser, it was a toy, I am willing to bet if anyone tried to replicate the event, it would be found that the pilot overeacted and filed a report because he got startled.
DROP the case, there was no crime.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pigs a**. Take a look at the sticky at the top of this page......
well my stance has always stayed the same. Its unacceptable. And illegal. And he knew better.
A grown man for christ sake. This isn't a child who doesn't know right from wrong.
14C
Enlightened
DaFiend, what we all have to understand is that most people are not members of forums that discuss things like this. For the most part the general public is uninformed. Just like the politicians and most of the law enforcement community.
Does not make us smarter or more able to judge someones actions.
Just means we are more informed.
Not knocking you.
Does not make us smarter or more able to judge someones actions.
Just means we are more informed.
Not knocking you.
yes, this is true, we are more informed because we discuss the topic.
But even if you didn't come to a forum such as this...... would you dot a plane, car or any other moving vechile that the driver/navigator could possibly suffer flash blindness?
I have no doubt that he would have a television/radio as well. This was well covered by the media before this guy was caught.
But even if you didn't come to a forum such as this...... would you dot a plane, car or any other moving vechile that the driver/navigator could possibly suffer flash blindness?
I have no doubt that he would have a television/radio as well. This was well covered by the media before this guy was caught.
14C
Enlightened
I believe it was not covered as well as it has been since the incident and even if it was covered in enough detail to allow an individual to comprehend the consequences of such action it was not widespread enough for most people to see and I think that this individual is a scapegoat to be used for that purpose. You have to admit that only over the last few months even the most informed here have only begun to grasp the potential hazards and consequenses of the "hobby".
This guy made a mistake. A serious one in hindsight.
He should be held accountable but given a break.
It's not like he was testing to see if he could make someone crash.
I think we are confusing somewhat the ones who know better with the ones who know not.
While that is always a tough one in a lot of ways the penalty in his case should be minor and the example ahould be set and used to educate and pursue tougher penaltied ...and it will be whatever the outcome.
This guy had no clue and was not "pushing the envelope" as I see some here are willing to do.
I am one of the first and have been to blow the safety and legality horn as you might know.
I say fry the ones who know what they are doing wrong when you catch them.
Educate the ones who are mistaken if you can and if you cannot fry them later.
Edited for crappy spelling with some mistakes probably left... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
This guy made a mistake. A serious one in hindsight.
He should be held accountable but given a break.
It's not like he was testing to see if he could make someone crash.
I think we are confusing somewhat the ones who know better with the ones who know not.
While that is always a tough one in a lot of ways the penalty in his case should be minor and the example ahould be set and used to educate and pursue tougher penaltied ...and it will be whatever the outcome.
This guy had no clue and was not "pushing the envelope" as I see some here are willing to do.
I am one of the first and have been to blow the safety and legality horn as you might know.
I say fry the ones who know what they are doing wrong when you catch them.
Educate the ones who are mistaken if you can and if you cannot fry them later.
Edited for crappy spelling with some mistakes probably left... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
DarkLight
Enlightened
20 yrs is ridiculous, people KILL people and dont get those kind of sentences..
Using the Patriot Act he will get seriously screwed and the Gov will set and enforce new guide lines with that individual as there example for others to learn by. Ever since 911 you can forget about getting a mild slap on the wrist for any offense that even suggests a potential for terror whether justified or not. The man made a big mistake yes and unfortunately for him the times have changed regarding laws not for the better do to the recent past.
Raccoon
Enlightened
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2004
- Messages
- 631
Times have changed. Do we stand by and accept them?
I agree with the general consensus that this guy made an uneducated mistake. He really DIDN"T put the lives of those people onboard at risk, because airplanes get dotted 100 times per year and we have yet to have one fall from the sky. It cannot be done.
It is only NOW becoming media hype because it sells news. So lets stop dotting planes now that everyone knows it's unacceptable. But this guy committed no tangible crime.
PS. No, I never dotted a plane myself. I know better. I just don't blame those who have in the past.
I agree with the general consensus that this guy made an uneducated mistake. He really DIDN"T put the lives of those people onboard at risk, because airplanes get dotted 100 times per year and we have yet to have one fall from the sky. It cannot be done.
It is only NOW becoming media hype because it sells news. So lets stop dotting planes now that everyone knows it's unacceptable. But this guy committed no tangible crime.
PS. No, I never dotted a plane myself. I know better. I just don't blame those who have in the past.
James S
Flashlight Enthusiast
I believe that the experiments showing what the output of this particular laser at those distances is have been done. The laser in question at the distance in question never put anybody's life in danger on board that aircraft.
That doesn't excuse him, but lets keep the frantic "plane could have crashed" argument out of it.
This has nothing to do with the the plane in question and everything to do with the patriot act guys trying to look like they are doing something. Most of what they do is very good work and behind the scenes and we never hear about the miraculous deeds and acts of unbelievable deduction. Well here is a case that they can actually make headlines about. Since this guy is no threat to national security they can publish anything about the case that they like without any of it damaging any other investigations.
So of course they are all over it to try to show us how on top of thing they are. But all they are really showing us is what we know already which is that public opinion and headlines are more important than our actual safety.
I don't personally believe that putting this guy in prison will stop any other moron from doing the same thing, and it certainly wont have any impact on the terrorist planning to do something similar.
But it's pointless to argue as if he had already been found guilty and given the largest sentence possible under the law. Except in the case of something that carries a minimum sentence (which is a whole nother topic I could rail on for hours) it's the job of the judge to figure out the actual situation involved in the violation of a law and meter out a punishment according to it. Even with a patriot act violation, if the guy is brought before a judge, then that judge will decide what is going to happen to him. Not the prosecutor that is trying to scare everybody else.
So until a sentence is handed down we have no idea how the judge and future judges will handle this sort of stupid thing.
That doesn't excuse him, but lets keep the frantic "plane could have crashed" argument out of it.
This has nothing to do with the the plane in question and everything to do with the patriot act guys trying to look like they are doing something. Most of what they do is very good work and behind the scenes and we never hear about the miraculous deeds and acts of unbelievable deduction. Well here is a case that they can actually make headlines about. Since this guy is no threat to national security they can publish anything about the case that they like without any of it damaging any other investigations.
So of course they are all over it to try to show us how on top of thing they are. But all they are really showing us is what we know already which is that public opinion and headlines are more important than our actual safety.
I don't personally believe that putting this guy in prison will stop any other moron from doing the same thing, and it certainly wont have any impact on the terrorist planning to do something similar.
But it's pointless to argue as if he had already been found guilty and given the largest sentence possible under the law. Except in the case of something that carries a minimum sentence (which is a whole nother topic I could rail on for hours) it's the job of the judge to figure out the actual situation involved in the violation of a law and meter out a punishment according to it. Even with a patriot act violation, if the guy is brought before a judge, then that judge will decide what is going to happen to him. Not the prosecutor that is trying to scare everybody else.
So until a sentence is handed down we have no idea how the judge and future judges will handle this sort of stupid thing.
guntotin_fool ... please don't use foul language here, it is a family-safe place to surf. Then you definitely should read the red text on top of each page of this sub-forum and be informed that he indeed committed a crime, wether the laser had the actual force to do harm to a pilopt or not. This is not the only point here.
While we are free to discuss this topic in a rational manner, you style of argumentation is not wanted here and you shall change it in the future, please. This is a hot topic and we avoid negative attention to CPF this way.
The guy made a bad mistake, a stupid mistake. But we all do, and I sincerely hope he won't have his entire life ruined by this stupid patriot act ...
I guess he already is punished enough.
And the big problem is that the public and the politicians aren't informed. Misinformation is the first step to mistakes. We know this, and thus must avoid any negative attention to the hobby and this site.
bernhard
While we are free to discuss this topic in a rational manner, you style of argumentation is not wanted here and you shall change it in the future, please. This is a hot topic and we avoid negative attention to CPF this way.
The guy made a bad mistake, a stupid mistake. But we all do, and I sincerely hope he won't have his entire life ruined by this stupid patriot act ...
I guess he already is punished enough.
And the big problem is that the public and the politicians aren't informed. Misinformation is the first step to mistakes. We know this, and thus must avoid any negative attention to the hobby and this site.
bernhard
