Petzl Tikka-Talk me out of it? PT Aurora?

[Wits' End]

I saw this light in a shop today and wondered why I hadn't seen it before. Craig has a good review.Tikka review
and the price is reasonable $33-$40.
There are only a few mentions on LED and Flashlight forum. So please tell me what is wrong with this light. I will probably buy one (2?) if there is no negative input. I would be using it for walking/close-up work in various weather conditions. I really like its small size (do they really fit 3 aaa's in there?) and good light output. Any suggestions on best price/service? My best price found was here Karst Sports
less than $5 shipping. Anybody have experience with them? Thanks

 

[recercare]

I have the Petzl Tikka, and I'm very happy with it. Long run time and good brightness. It's light and comfortable to wear.

You should also try Black Diamond Moonlight. It has a better headband and you can tip the leds up and down. However, The leds seem more exposed, and I fear that this light will break more easily than the Tikka.

 

[Plinko]

STOP!

Don't do it!!!!!!

In a week from now, Princeton Tech will have their Aurora headlight in stores. The Aurora is similar to the Tikka, but it's constuction seems much more solid to the feel and it's quite a bit brighter. Same 3-AAA battery configuration, and 3 recessed LED's. Same compact, lightweight design. The things that make it WAY better than the Tikka are: 1. $29.95 MSRP ($5-$10 LESS than you'll find a Tikka for) 2. Five programable functions/modes, including dimming and strobing...compared to Tikka's one mode (on/off). 3. Adjustable angle head so you can point the light where you need it, not where Petzl thinks it should be. The Tikka's a great little light, but before you buy one, make sure you check out the Aurora...you'll save money and also get a way cooler light besides!

Cheers!

Click here for more info on the Aurora
Aurora Details

 

[recercare]

Sounds like a good headlamp! However, I dislike Princeton Tec in general. The info on their website is suspiciously misleading. I read that Tec 40 has 4W output, but it has 2.1W. The surge is supposed to have 7.5W ouput according to Princeton, but 5-6W is more correct. These lights way have this ouput initially, but not after 10 minutes.

Let's elaborate about the surge: 6V * 1.1A = 6.6W. However, a more correct estimate would be 4.8V * 1.1A = 5.28W

If the 7.5W is correct with 1.1A, then the batteries must produce 1.7V!!!

I have never seen a flashlight manufacturer counting 1.7V of each battery when estimating wattage ouput. This is crazy!

 

[remuen]

I have a Tikka since almost a year and I do still like it. It is small and very light and you can it wear many hours without getting a headache. I use it mainly for running. With new batteries it is bright, but after a three to four hours when the batteries go down it looses quite some of its brightness. For running in the dark wood on a rainy day it is not really bright enough. But for what you want to use it I can only recommand it.

I intend to do a mod on my Tikka adding two more LEDs and a booster. This will give me more light but also a shorter runtime on the batteries. There is only point: How do I take the Tikka apart without breaking the housing or the the battery case?

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I take exception to the claim that the LEDs on the Moonlight are in jeopardy because they are "exposed" and that the Tikka is more sturdy in this respect. Nonsense.
The LEDs in the Moonlight are recessed in an extremely sturdy housing, and the Tikka quality is toylike compared to the Moonlight, just try operating the Tikka switch -- tiny wobbly fragile little thing, isn't it? The Moonlight is built to last and has a positive on-off pushbutton action, and is in a location where it is unlikely to be accidentally turned on. Also the Moonlight has 4 LEDs vs. the Tikka's 3 -- a very noticeable improvement.

 

[Mr Ted Bear]

The other reasont to wait for the Aurora is that it is many times brighter the the Tikka (saw it at Shot show)

 

[recercare]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ted the Led:
I take exception to the claim that the LEDs on the Moonlight are in jeopardy because they are "exposed" and that the Tikka is more sturdy in this respect. Nonsense.
The LEDs in the Moonlight are recessed in an extremely sturdy housing, and the Tikka quality is toylike compared to the Moonlight, just try operating the Tikka switch -- tiny wobbly fragile little thing, isn't it? The Moonlight is built to last and has a positive on-off pushbutton action, and is in a location where it is unlikely to be accidentally turned on. Also the Moonlight has 4 LEDs vs. the Tikka's 3 -- a very noticeable improvement.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's good news. I assumed that the Moonlight was more fragile due to the fact that 4 of my friends have Moonlights. Three of them have had problems:
1. 2 leds stopped working
2. The headlamp didn't work at all
3. Worked fine
4. 1 led stopped working

That is not very impressive. I've never heard of people having problems with their Tikka, but I agree that the switch seems fragile.

 

[recercare]

Why is the Aurora brighter than the Tikka? Brighter leds? Overdriven leds?

 

[Gandalf]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by recercare:
Sounds like a good headlamp! However, I dislike Princeton Tec in general. The info on their website is suspiciously misleading. ouput initially, but not after 10 minutes.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree about the misleading information on the website, but Princeton Tec is far from the only flashlight manufacturer to publish 'misleading', to downright lies, about their products.

Claims of many LED lights, that will run for '200 hours' or 'runs for a month nonstop' are just as misleading, if not more so, since these LED flashlighs will still 'technically' be *on* after 200 hours, or whatever, but they will be producing about as much lights as a PAL light in 'stand-by mode!'

However, despite the misleading info on Princeton Tec's website, they offer a line of very innovative, high quality flashlights that often outperform some other more expensive lights. The Surge, and the Tec 40 are good example of lights that are really inexpensive, by today's standards for high performance flashlights, and produce a very good amount of light, and reasonably long burn times, using inexpensive AA batteries. The same can be said for their AAA incandesant lights, and many of their LED lights as well.

So despite their over enthusiastic advertizing, the Princeton Tec lights offer a very good value for the money. Think of how many new models they have come out with in the past 2 years. I can't think of any other manufacturer who has had so many innovative new lights in such a relatively short time. No, all Pronceton Tec lights aren't perfect, but they are very cost effective, for what you get from them, IMHO.

The Surge is a good example; there's no other
light in the same, or even similar size and price range that puts out as much light as it does. (Is there....?)

And at lest Princeton Tec doesn't announce products that aren't going to be available for 6 to 8 months, like another manufacturer we all know.

 

[Alan]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by recercare:
Sounds like a good headlamp! However, I dislike Princeton Tec in general. The info on their website is suspiciously misleading. I read that Tec 40 has 4W output, but it has 2.1W. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have raised this issue sometimes ago, please refer to http://www.candlepowerforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000407

Nonetheless, PT does make good light with good price. Don't get put off by their silly marketing people. After I got my first Tec 40 eight months ago, I have 6 PT lights now (2 Rages, 2 Tec40, 1 Vortec and 1 Surge). I am seriously looking at their new Switchback headlamp as well.

Alan

 

[Alan]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by remuen:
There is only point: How do I take the Tikka apart without breaking the housing or the the battery case?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Remuen, it's interested that you're the only one to raise this issue. I still remember that the first time I replace the battery in the Zipka (the same structure as Tikka), it took me more than 10 minutes in day light and I sweated all over. I dare not to apply excess force as it might break the case.

Alan

 

[remuen]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alan:

I still remember that the first time I replace the battery in the Zipka (the same structure as Tikka), it took me more than 10 minutes in day light and I sweated all over. I dare not to apply excess force as it might break the case.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Alan, replacing the batteries is not as easy as it could be but was never a real problem to me. What I want is to remove the whole battery case to do the mentioned mod. I think I will dare it to do it with force and taking the risk that the something could break ...

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by recercare:
That's good news. I assumed that the Moonlight was more fragile due to the fact that 4 of my friends have Moonlights. Three of them have had problems:
1. 2 leds stopped working
2. The headlamp didn't work at all
3. Worked fine
4. 1 led stopped working

That is not very impressive. I've never heard of people having problems with their Tikka, but I agree that the switch seems fragile.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I find this difficult to accept, since the Black Diamond Moonlight is made by and for mountaineers whose circumstances demand reliable equipment for survival...I would be interested to know exactly the nature and cause of the failures, and what BlackDiamond said and/or did about them. My Moonlight has been fine for about a year and a half of use now...

 

[cave dave]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gandalf:
...And at lest Princeton Tec doesn't announce products that aren't going to be available for 6 to 8 months, like another manufacturer we all know.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually there Switchback was Vaporware for several months and supply is still spoty.
Even so i like PT products and intend to buy an Aurora as soon as it comes out.
Inner Mountain Outfitters and Karst sports are both excellent places to buy from. Both are pretty much one man operations so you may not get REI 800 number operator speed service, but both know their stuff and they sell stuff that works in the harsh Caving world. I have met and talked w Doug at Karst many times and can very much recommend him. He usually can get the new stuff first and keeps his prices low.
As soon as the Aurora comes out I'll be willing to sell the Tikka for a big discount. I miss the tilt function and it isn't at all water tight.

 

[Wits' End]

Thanks Plinko. You stopped me. The Aurora looks good, I really like the small size/weight of both lights. I was concerned about the strength/durability of the Tikka. The dimmability of the Aurora is a big plus as most of the time I don't need much light. Anyone who has seen both lights is the Aurora more "robust"?

 

[funk]

Ted - Black Diamond is a Mountaineering company with a great history - but their lights are Asian made - meaning out of their hands for production. There is always potential for QC problems when you are not at the factorey watching the steps.
It is a good light and bulky construction, but

 

[Alan]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by funk:
If Black Diamond owned the manufacturing, they would have better control over QC. Why do you think companies that use outside manufacturing change factories regularly - no matter where the factory is - US, South America, Asia whereever - it is almost always QC or efficiency.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funk, this is very good example. By my experience, the reasons why a company outsource production:

a) The company carry variety of products but in small quantity - not justify building their own facilities for each category of products.
b) The company doesn't have enough financial resources to build its own facilities
c) The company has good market sense but no manufacturing expertise (also means they might not have expertise to select good suppliers).
d) ..... etc
e) ..... etc.

Simply put, if a company has expertise in manufacturing *good quality product*, they know how to select good supplier. That's reason why many companies who used to build their quality products by themselves and able to maintain good quality standard even after outsourcing the production overseas.

By the way, good equipped supplier only means heavily invested but not neccessarily well-managed even ISO9000/9002 certified. Of course, even a good supplier may screw up a shipment or 2.

This is only for the sake of discussion and definitely NOT meant to Black Diamond.

Alan

 

[rigormootis]

I thought about getting a Tikka...but I bought a PT Matrix instead...and I have never regretted it. In fact, I use a red-replacement lens on it for field work. It is waterproof (2000') and very durable. Plus, w/ lithium AAs, it is supposed to run +100hours...

 

[Alan]

Funk,

I always said that "when buying a product, go for the name not where it was made".

If the light has problem, it's either a design issue (not reliable) or picked a wrong supplier. Either way, it's Black Diamond's fault.

Regardless if their production facilities are located in Asia, or the same city, they won't be watching the production everyday. If a supplier needed to be monitored by customer in order to maintain its quality, it's a bad supplier, period. Who pick the supplier? It's totally in Black Diamond's control.

Alan