Philips LED Lightbulbs coming in July

[NX3]

Yup they are out in Europe and I posted about them a while back :

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/215187

 

[ponygt65]

Clap-clap-clap!

This is what I've been ranting about, and a big reason LEDs retrofit bulbs are mostly a marketing solution rather than a practical one.

For instance, I took three Cree P4's (two neutral whites and one ww), and bounced them off a 8" x 24" panel painted matte white and suspended about 5" above the bare emitters. The panel diffused the LED light and reflected a very pleasing cone of light downward. Even at 350mA the light quality was as bright and certainly more pleasing than any 40watt incan, with the exception of maybe a solux halogen.

This is a specific light fixture designed for optimum LED quality, and it looks pretty cool. Putting LEDs inside a opaque plastic bulb so it looks like an incan is frankly stupid in my opinion, but if I may be blunt, so are the people trying to use them to replace incan bulbs.

DING DING DING.....and there we have it folks.

People are SO STUCK on the energy push that the over all practicality and PROPER lighting design is entirely over looked. It's quite pathetic actually. People are only hurting themselves with improper design and lighting. The myth of 'fluorescents hurt your eyes' comes to mind. NO, it's called improper lighting. Either too much or not enough.

It disgusts me to see this crap every day. People need to be educated and the ones with the power to do that are doing a **** poor job.

 

[R@ndom]

Um why is there so much talk about multi emitter when those output numbers represent a well driven k2.

 

[LEDninja]

In flashlights an emitter can be driven much harder because it does not need to survive 50000 to 100000 hours. A household bulb needs to. Cree XRE flashlights are now driven regularly at 1400 mA. Current Cree XRE household bulbs drive the LEDs at 350 mA though levels of 500 mA and 700 mA are showing up.

I have 3*1W and 1*3W bulbs from eliteLED. The 3*1W is twice as bright as the 1*3W. The extra LEDs make the multi-emitter bulb cost $15 more though.

Driving an LED harder means more heat and bigger heatsinks. Unfortunately the bulb is limited to the standard 'A' size or it won't fit most lamps. There are some PAR 38 LED bulbs tat are quite bright (1300 lumens). But they are 4.75 inches wide Try to put that in a standard lamp then put the lampshade back on. The Evolux got around that by using fan forced air cooling. Wrrrrr.

A 60W incan bulb is ~800 lumens, a 100W is ~1400 lumens. Can not get that amount of light from a single K2.

It is a lot cheaper to build a 12V 350mA circuit than a 4V 1000mA circuit. The 350 mA circuit is also more reliable if similar rated components are used.

 

[ledstein]

You should not get excited about any Philips led product. The reason is purely commercial:

Philips owns Lumileds which is the largest supplier of high power leds. The companies that their leds produce a wide range of lighting products, including led bulbs. If Philips would offer a high quality product at a competitve price it would seriously undermine the companies that build the similar product with their leds. As long as Philips makes a lot more money from selling the leds to others than selling directly the finished product they will never have real interest to offer competitve products to the end user.

 

[jirik_cz]

Don't think so. Philips announced 600lm/8W prototype a couple of days ago...

Btw. Cree also announced 665 lumen / 6.5W LR6 downlight prototype with CRI 92 and 3500K color temperature.

Next year will be very interesting in household LED lighting :naughty:.

 

[ponygt65]

You should not get excited about any Philips led product. The reason is purely commercial:

Philips owns Lumileds which is the largest supplier of high power leds. The companies that their leds produce a wide range of lighting products, including led bulbs. If Philips would offer a high quality product at a competitve price it would seriously undermine the companies that build the similar product with their leds. As long as Philips makes a lot more money from selling the leds to others than selling directly the finished product they will never have real interest to offer competitve products to the end user.

+1 and Philips is not known in teh commercial industry to have reliable, quality products. They are cheap and typically found in retail centers more than commercial stores.

 

[LEDninja]

You should not get excited about any Philips led product. The reason is purely commercial:

Philips owns Lumileds which is the largest supplier of high power leds. The companies that their leds produce a wide range of lighting products, including led bulbs. If Philips would offer a high quality product at a competitve price it would seriously undermine the companies that build the similar product with their leds. As long as Philips makes a lot more money from selling the leds to others than selling directly the finished product they will never have real interest to offer competitve products to the end user.

Philips makes all sorts of electronic components, not just LEDs. Selling LEDs to other manufacturers means making profit on 1 item. Selling the whole bulb means making profit on 3 items - the LED, the power supply, the outer casing/final assembly.

The other advantage of Philips selling their own bulb is they have a much better distribution network. Geobulbs sell through C Crane. EarthLED sells through Environmental LED in the US and Lumia in Canada. Philips sells through thousands of hardware stores, department and discount stores, pharmacies, even corner stores and gas stations. The sheer number of bulbs sold would provide economies of scale and lower production costs meaning more profit.

Most LED bulbs had been fairly dim. The manufacturers have been doing a lot to improve brightness - increasing current and using CREE LEDs. The latest LED bulbs I bought are all CREE not Philips Lumileds Luxeons anymore.

Don't think so. Philips announced 600lm/8W prototype a couple of days ago...

...Next year will be very interesting in household LED lighting :naughty:.

To get 600 lm out of 8W seem to indicate Lumileds may have fixed the production problems of the rebel 080/100. At this time the bulb is a prototype so maybe not yet.

LED bulbs have been progressing steadily:
Single 5 mm LED,
Multiple 5 mm LEDs,
1 watt (Luxeons?),
Multiple 1 watts,
Single/multiple 3 watts,
Single/multiple Cree.
LED bulbs are finally producing useful output. The Evolux is ~1000 lumens already.
I am using bulbs from 90 (2W Cree) to 380 (3*2W Cree) lumens. I do have a 10W Cree (450 lumens) but the idiotic maker put an orange filter in front of a cool white LED(s) instead of using warm white LEDs. I have packed my older 1W bulbs away to do the hand me down thing (They make great nitelites).

The remaining thing left is to bring the price down. I can not see people that are not early adopters like me paying current prices.

 

[LEDninja]

THEY ARE HERE!

Home depot. Meadowlands, Ancaster, Ontario, Canada.

There are 4 models:
E26 A size bulb. (can not see through the frosting)
E26 spot. 4 LEDs. (EDIT This has a very tall heatsink)
MR11 (I think, can't remember) single LED.
GU10 4 LEDs.
They are all priced at $29.95 CAD.

I only bought the E26 A size. (Picture & 1st impressions 2 posts later)

Specs on front:
AmbientLED, soft white.
7W=25W*
155 lumens, 7 watts, 40 000 hours.

On back:
MASTER LED 7W E26 A55 120V
406140
Bar code 0-46677-40614-1
FCC cULus LISTED LED Lamp 3PRR E317295
3000K 85 CRI
*energy efficient replacement for maximum 25W incandescent bulb.

EDIT
Checked the UL Online Certification Directory for the listing using E317295.

Last Updated on 2009-02-23 (They were listed before then, bulbs just showed up now - slow boat from China)

PHILIPS (CHINA) INVESTMENT CO LTD E317295
NO 9 LANE 888
TIANLIN RD
200233 SHANGHAI, CHINA

The bulbs I saw are probably
Master LED E26 bulb,
Master LED E26 spot,
Master LED GU10 spot,
??? AccentLED MR16 GU5.3 WW 4W 10D.
(Not sure about the last one.)

 

[gunga]

Oh cool, in Canada too!

Can you post reviews when you get a chance?

I would be interested in trying something out to replace CFLs...

 

[LEDninja]

I tried to buy a 25W incandescent bulb at the corner store but all they had was 40+W. So any detailed review will have to wait.

The Philips bulb is much brighter than the warm white 2W Cree bulbs I got, more than the 155 to 90 lumens would indicate.
I can read the light gray letters on white keys on my Mac keyboard more clearly but the bulb is too bright for a keyboard light.

I had a problem with getting a bulb for bedside. (Swing arm lamp clamped to dresser beside bed.)
The G45 2W globe is adequate for reading a paperback close up, but I have to hold a newspaper farther away and the brightness becomes inadequate for my old eyes.
The 3*1W Cree is bright enough but the spot beam (~30°) cannot cover the large size of the newspaper.
The 3*2W Cree (~45°) has a wide enough spot but 380 lumens close up is too bright to read with.
The Philips bulb with its wide beam but adequate brightness seems to be just right.

While both the Philips and most of my warm white Crees are listed at 3000K, the Philips is much warmer in tint, very close to an incandescent.

I would not want to hold the bulb by the heatsink immediately after I turned it off but I had no problem unscrewing it from the lamp holding on to the front.

-----

The picture on the package shows the wrong type of lamp to use with LED bulbs. There is clearly more light above the lampshade than below it where it is needed the most.
This bulb is best used in swing arm lamps, gooseneck desk lamps, accent lamps etc. where the light can be directed for maximum effect.

The light pattern is more of a hemisphere than the spherical pattern of incandescent/CFL bulbs so more light comes out the front. The change from light to dark is very gradual. There is probably double the LUX for the same LUMENS in direct lighting. So immediately in front of the bulb the 155 lumens would feel more like a 300 lumen incandescent bulb.

 

[PhotonWrangler]

Thanks for the information and the photo, LEDninja. I checked a Home Depot and a Lowes today and they haven't reached my area yet.

 

[LEDninja]

Never got a 25W incandescent bulb so you guys will have to put up with an overbright incandescent bulb. The MasterLED does better pointed at the wall but is still no match for a 40W.

40W incandescent left, 7W MasterLED right.

40W incandescent left, 7W MasterLED right. Pointed at the wall.

Ikea 7W CFL vs MasterLED 7W LED:
Ikea 7W CFL rated 286 lumens, MasterLED 155 lumens.
The IKEA bulb is one of those that take forever to come to full brightness, but I repeat my gut feel the MasterLED is producing more than its 155 lumen rating.

7W CFL left, 7W MasterLED right.

7W CFL left, 7W MasterLED right pointed at the wall. Sorry about forgetting to flip the CFL over.

A single cree is no match for 4 Luxeons. Note how both LED bulbs work better when pointed at the place that needs light (the wall).

2W cree left, 7W MasterLED right.

2W cree left, 7W MasterLED right. Lights pointed to the wall

3x1W cree PAR 16 left, 7W MasterLED right. Both lights pointed at the wall. With enough crees AND OPTICS TO CONCENTRATE THE LIGHT there is much improvement in hotspot brightness,

 

[jtr1962]

Is the Philips bulb dimmable on a standard lamp dimmer? If they hope to take over the incandescent market that's virtually a requirement. As an alternative, and this would be useful mainly for table lamps, the bulb itself could have a dial which you turn to dim it.

Nice product. Only drawback for me is the cost and the fact that it's warm white. I'd want something in the 4500K to 5500K range. It should be exciting to see what comes out in the next few years. My gut feeling is the CFL is headed in the same direction as the incandescent lamp.

 

[LEDninja]

Is the Philips bulb dimmable on a standard lamp dimmer?

WARNINGS AND CAUTIONS
NOT FOR USE WITH DIMMERS.
Suitable for use in open luminaries, not for use in enclosed fixtures.
Do not use with emergency exit fixtures or lights.
Turn off power before changing bulb.

 

[striwa88]

Anyone know where to get these in the Seattle/Tacoma area?

:help:

Thanks

 

[blasterman]

My gut feeling is the CFL is headed in the same direction as the incandescent lamp.

CFL is going to stay with us awhile, but the format will change (hopefully) to something more reliable.

Conventional wall dimmers need to be rendered extinct just like Incans. While I see the marketing reasons for requiring an LED bulb to compatible with dimmers on the AC / input side it seems a bit silly for such a low lumen bulb.

 

[holiday light express]

Ehh... the zetalux and the evolux are far better deals and far better light outputs.

 

[LEDninja]

The Evolux and Zetalux was not a better deal for me until this month. Shipping (~$20) + customs brokerage ($5 USPS to $50 courier) is the killer.
The Evolux 1000 lumens was ~$100 + shipping + customs brokerage (a 23W CFL ~$5)
The Zetalux 350 lumens was ~$50 + shipping + customs brokerage (a 13W CFL ~$5)

With the Philips bulb 155 lumens now out at $30 (no shipping) the price competition has begun.
The Evolux is now ~$80 + shipping + customs brokerage.
The Zetalux is now ~$40 + shipping + customs brokerage.

I find the Philips bulb sufficiently bright for desk lamps and other local lighting. For overall room lighting I use CFLs.
Some people may want the extra brightness of the Zetalux.

I still have my doubts over how long the Evolux will last because the fan will draw dust in. I look at my fans at the end of every summer and go yuk.

 

[PhotonWrangler]

Has anyone seen the Sylvania lamps in the US yet?