Philips "Vision" vs "VisionPlus" vs "X-treme Vision"

ezarc

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Just after some info on these lights, it seems the cheaper the lights the better the lumens despite the claims of +60%, +130% etc.

Here are the specs from PowerBulbs (for H4/9003, prices in AUD)

Philips Vision +30%
1815 Lumens $20.44

Philips VisionPlus +60%
1780 Lumens $32.72

Philips X-treme Vision +130%
1650 Lumens $47.40

The adjustment angle determines the cut off which equals the distance the low beam can travel, the rest comes down the headlight housing/reflector.

How is it that lower lumens can supposedly travel further with all else being the same?

They have a 25% off sale that ends soon and I kind of don't know which to buy, I've had the old X-treme Vision +100% before but didn't notice much difference other than the light was a little whiter than standard.
 

Echo63

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Re: Philips "Vision" vs "VisionPlus" vs "X-treme Vision"

Just after some info on these lights, it seems the cheaper the lights the better the lumens despite the claims of +60%, +130% etc.

Here are the specs from PowerBulbs (for H4/9003, prices in AUD)

Philips Vision +30%
1815 Lumens $20.44

Philips VisionPlus +60%
1780 Lumens $32.72

Philips X-treme Vision +130%
1650 Lumens $47.40

The adjustment angle determines the cut off which equals the distance the low beam can travel, the rest comes down the headlight housing/reflector.

How is it that lower lumens can supposedly travel further with all else being the same?

They have a 25% off sale that ends soon and I kind of don't know which to buy, I've had the old X-treme Vision +100% before but didn't notice much difference other than the light was a little whiter than standard.

the lower lumen, higher performance bulbs have a more precisely wound tighter filament, which puts a bit more light in the important parts of the beam - its less lumens overall, but more where its useful to the beam.
 

ezarc

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Re: Philips "Vision" vs "VisionPlus" vs "X-treme Vision"

the lower lumen, higher performance bulbs have a more precisely wound tighter filament, which puts a bit more light in the important parts of the beam - its less lumens overall, but more where its useful to the beam.


The bulbs scatter light in all directions (mostly sideways and backwards as the tip of the bulb is solid black/silver) and its the headlight housing that focuses the beam, not the filament.

The photos on the Philips website show the coils of the VisionPlus and X-treme Vison to be identical (as well as the whole assembly) aside from the blue stripes and silver tip on the 2nd one.

I guess I'm not going to buy any while they are on sale this time as I don't really need any but I might write to Philips and ask in more detail so I know for next time.

Comparison pics:
VisionPlus
X-Treme Vision
 

Echo63

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Re: Philips "Vision" vs "VisionPlus" vs "X-treme Vision"

The bulbs scatter light in all directions (mostly sideways and backwards as the tip of the bulb is solid black/silver) and its the headlight housing that focuses the beam, not the filament.

The photos on the Philips website show the coils of the VisionPlus and X-treme Vison to be identical (as well as the whole assembly) aside from the blue stripes and silver tip on the 2nd one.

I guess I'm not going to buy any while they are on sale this time as I don't really need any but I might write to Philips and ask in more detail so I know for next time.

Comparison pics:
VisionPlus
X-Treme Vision

Yes, the bulbs scatter light everywhere - but if there is more light from the bulb at the focal point of the reflector (higher lumen density from a smaller tighter filament) then more light makes it out into the useful area of the beam.

this is how it was explained to me, and the "+X" h7 bulbs i have looked at do have different filament sizes (not by much though)


a perfect example of this would be a maxabeam, vs any hid with a similar size reflector.
a 35w hid is 3200 lumens, but has an arc about 4mm long
the maxabeam is roughly half as many lumens, but a .9mm arc with a .1mm hotspot - theres not much off the shelf that can reach out like a maxabeam.
Its an extreme example, and headlight reflector design is much more complex than a simple parabola, but the basic physics is the same.
 
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Alaric Darconville

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Re: Philips "Vision" vs "VisionPlus" vs "X-treme Vision"

The bulbs scatter light in all directions (mostly sideways and backwards as the tip of the bulb is solid black/silver) and its the headlight housing that focuses the beam, not the filament.
They radiate light in nearly four pi steradians; there are some conic sections that are bit blocked (not reflected) by the bulb's blacktop or just the tip of the bulb itself, and by the filament supports. However, most of the light from the minor filament isn't useful-- the blue bands that limit output (more on that below) filter quite a bit of the bulb's nearly-spheroid output. The color of the blacktop has no bearing on the performance of the lamp whatsoever-- it is not designed to reflect light back to the lamp's reflector, rather it is designed to prevent direct viewing of the filament when installed in a headlamp.

The filament plays a major role in beam focus; when the filament is poorly placed, or oversize, or both, then beam focus suffers. The lamp's reflector is designed for a filament in the correct place and of the correct size.

As far as lumen ratings, this depends on the test voltage. A bulb that produces 1815lm at 13.2V will produce 1635lm at 12.8V; perhaps they're mixing and matching data from different spec sheets. Also, the higher-performing bulbs have blue banding that intentionally reduces overall output from the bulb so that they comply with the various regulations' output limits. Unfortunately, on the +130 bulb this includes banding over the major filament, reducing the high beam performance. The low beam performance will be unaffected, the banding does not block the reflector's 'view' of that portion of the bulb.

The photos on the Philips website show the coils of the VisionPlus and X-treme Vison to be identical (as well as the whole assembly) aside from the blue stripes and silver tip on the 2nd one.

Again, the color of the 'blacktop' is irrelevant. Another thing is that the eye can't see the difference in the filament formulation, and differences in fill gas composition and pressure.
 

-Virgil-

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Re: Philips "Vision" vs "VisionPlus" vs "X-treme Vision"

In fact, the right answer to this question is that the "specs" on the Powerbulbs website for the three Philips bulbs are not accurate. They're not even just switched around or mistranscribed; they appear to be simply fabricated at random. Philips, like Osram, generally publishes one spec* for all their H4 bulbs: 1650/1000 lumens +/- 15%, which are the high/low beam values and allowable tolerance range (at 13.2 volts) plucked right out of UN Regulation 37. That means the min and max permissible values are 1403/850 and 1897/1150. The highest-performance bulbs (Philips Xtreme, Osram Night Breaker) approach the upper limits. The cheapest and nastiest off-brand junk approaches the lower limits. Take a look at the comparison here for numbers quite a bit more realistic than the made-up ones on the Powerbulbs site.

As for which ones to prefer on Philips Xtreme vs. Osram Night Breaker: they're both excellent, but I slightly prefer the Philips. There is no reality to the idea that the Osrams are better quality -- they aren't, but neither are they worse. There's even less reality to the idea that the Osrams are superior because they're made in Germany.

(Occasionally what looks like an actual-outptu number for a variant bulb shows up in an isolated document, but it's usually corrected back to the standard number in the next revision...the makers have the info, of course, they just don't like to publish it!)

The photos on the Philips website show the coils of the VisionPlus and X-treme Vison to be identical

The difference is not something you can see in a photograph, any more than a photograph of my contact lenses and your contact lenses next to each other will let you say "They're identical!" with any correctness.

the lower lumen, higher performance bulbs

No, it's higher lumens from higher performance bulbs.

its less lumens overall

No, it's not.

its the headlight housing that focuses the beam, not the filament.

This is a fundamental (and weird) misunderstanding. The bulb and its filament are an integral part of the optics of the headlamp. The whole optical system (including the filament!) are crucial to the beam focus and formation.
 
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blergh

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Re: Philips "Vision" vs "VisionPlus" vs "X-treme Vision"

Hey OP, since you're Australian, "keep it Aussie" with Narva?
I've tried various bulbs, found that the Narva Blue Power/Plus whatever has been consistently good, bit brighter and whiter light.
Not sure on the price, but they are a bit pricey.

As for the ones you listed, I'd say it's Philips marketing and there aren't much differences between them (maybe something to do with production runs). If you're dead set on buying the Philips, get the X-Treme vision? I wouldn't expect them to last as long as regular halogen anyway.

What type of headlight/car will it go into?
 

Alaric Darconville

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Re: Philips "Vision" vs "VisionPlus" vs "X-treme Vision"

I've tried various bulbs, found that the Narva Blue Power/Plus whatever has been consistently good, bit brighter and whiter light.
White light is white. The bulbs with blue tinting on the envelope do not produce whiter light than bulbs without tinting.

Oh, and here's a new one: Narva have a bulb that they claim produces "intense metallic white light". Light can no more be metallic than it can be minty or clumpy.
 

-Virgil-

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Re: Philips "Vision" vs "VisionPlus" vs "X-treme Vision"

Hey OP, since you're Australian, "keep it Aussie" with Narva?

The only thing Australian about Narva Australia Pty Ltd is the "Australia Pty Ltd" part of their name. They do not make bulbs, they import them from various places around the world.

I've tried various bulbs, found that the Narva Blue Power/Plus whatever has been consistently good, bit brighter and whiter light.

No, it's dimmer and the light is slightly bluer (not "whiter", there's no such thing except in the mind of a marketer).

As for the ones you listed, I'd say it's Philips marketing and there aren't much differences between them

This guess has no basis in reality.

(maybe something to do with production runs)

This parenthetical makes no sense.
 

blergh

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Re: Philips "Vision" vs "VisionPlus" vs "X-treme Vision"

Are you guys sponsored by Philips? Why was my guess incorrect? Educate me. Yes I did a direct comparison between Vision and X-Treme Vision (see below).

If he's in Australia, he goes to a local shop and buys Narva bulbs, where does his money go? Does his money end up in Eindhoven, China, Germany, or Australia?

I didn't know you did back to back testing on the same set of headlights on the one same car at the same time of day (within 30 minutes time frame) with different bulbs. How do you know the Narva bulb I'm talking about is brighter and whiter (SHOCK! HORROR!)? I guess I should take responsibility on that because I didn't specify which bulbs I was comparing to (it was standard, Vision and X-Treme vision). Shame I didn't have a good camera otherwise I would have taken wall and road shots (my time frame would have gone beyond 1hr, too much variance for you guys?).

When I compare a standard halogen bulb to one of these blue tinted ones, the "bluer" bulbs appear "whiter" because I'm comparing ~3200K to ~4000K. Using "bluer" confuses people when they see yellow lights. If I was comparing 85122 to CBI then I'd use "bluer". If I was comparing silver to gun grey, I'd use "darker". Makes sense?

My apologies for providing an alternative to Philips (Osram isn't as big in Australia), with my first hand testing (including spending money on these bulbs). What a surprise that $60 Narva Blue Plus 90 performed better than $60 Philips Vision eh? They probably wouldn't last as long though, I wouldn't know as I sold that car I tested on a couple of years ago. My ex's Pulsar was rocking the same bulbs and they were fine 3 years later (although different bulb type; she sold that car late last year apparently, bulbs still fine).

And yes, some H4 reflectors are "better" than others, it depends on how much effort the manufacturer put into them. Some have excellent beam pattern and cut off, some are just plain poop no matter what bulb you put in them.

Oh a side note, the best standard replacement halogen was the cheap $10-15 ones from Supercheap (SCA branded now I guess?), surprisingly! "Best" is subjective, but $15 bulbs same intensity as $40 ones, take your pick.
 

-Virgil-

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Re: Philips "Vision" vs "VisionPlus" vs "X-treme Vision"

Are you guys sponsored by Philips?

No.

Why was my guess incorrect?

Because it was a factoid asserted without any basis in reality, fact, or data.

Yes I did a direct comparison between Vision and X-Treme Vision (see below).

You didn't meaningfully compare anything relevant about these bulbs.

If he's in Australia, he goes to a local shop and buys Narva bulbs, where does his money go?

Some of it goes to the retailer. Some of it goes to the government. Some of it goes to the distributor. Some of it goes to the manufacturer. None of that's really germane here.

I didn't know you did back to back testing on the same set of headlights on the one same car at the same time of day (within 30 minutes time frame) with different bulbs.

There is no basis for this arbitrary 30-minute thing you're throwing around, and your idea of how to test things like headlamps is imaginative but not realistic.

How do you know the Narva bulb I'm talking about is brighter and whiter

Some of us on this forum have a great deal of knowledge about what's out there in terms of vehicle lighting components and what they do and don't do relative to the marketing claims made for them (and regurgitated by those who know only what they think they've understood of what they've been told).

Shame I didn't have a good camera

Not really. The dynamic range of a photograph (film or digital) is so much narrower than that of the human visual system that photographs of headlamps and beam patterns aren't useful, helpful, or informative.

(my time frame would have gone beyond 1hr, too much variance for you guys?).

Again with arbitrary timeframes. I'm not sure where this fixation of yours comes from.

When I compare a standard halogen bulb to one of these blue tinted ones, the "bluer" bulbs appear "whiter" because I'm comparing ~3200K to ~4000K.

You're speaking in subjective terms that have no basis in reality, with make-believe Kelvin numbers tacked on. This isn't really your fault; it didn't originate with you, it originated with marketers trying to sell blue bulbs (great gig: higher price, shorter life, visible fashion-oriented sales "hook"). But while you didn't make this stuff up, you did repeat it, and it's still not true or correct.

My apologies for providing an alternative to Philips (Osram isn't as big in Australia)

A lot of Osram bulbs are sold in Australia -- many branded "Narva".

with my first hand testing

So far you've presented no evidence of testing. You've installed a variety of bulbs in your car and expressed some subjective opinions. That's not testing, and it's not research. Our human visual system is not capable of accurately assessing how well we can see or how well a headlamp works...but it does a fine job of fooling us!

What a surprise that $60 Narva Blue Plus 90 performed better than $60 Philips Vision eh?

It didn't, you just felt like it did.

And yes, some H4 reflectors are "better" than others

No sneer-quotes required; for any given kind of headlamp (say, H4 of a given size and shape) there is an enormous range of performance possible depending on the efficiency and quality of the optics, materials, and build.

Your post count indicates you're new here. Welcome. You will find this is not a typical web forum where kids of all ages congregate to throw around baseless bullѕhit, misinformation and disinformation, and congratulate each other on the "wisdom" of their misinformed and disinformed purchases and modifications. There are other places on the internet for that kind of behavior on this subject. On this board, adult behavior is expected from everyone, all the time.

That doesn't mean there's only one right opinion, but if your post contains opinions that aren't based on fact, you are going to get called out for it. And if you post in a childish, snotty manner (such as your "SHOCK! HORROR!" and sarcastic remarks about 30- and 60-minute timeframes) you can expect to be treated as a troublemaker. You've already violated the rules and your post has been edited as a result; please take a few moments to read and understand the rules of this board, which you agreed to follow when you signed up. Thank you.
 

ezarc

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Re: Philips "Vision" vs "VisionPlus" vs "X-treme Vision"

Hey OP, since you're Australian, "keep it Aussie" with Narva?
<snip>
What type of headlight/car will it go into?
I'm not really a fan of anything with a blue tint on the bulb, else the X-treme Vision would have been first choice.
Narva do have the Plus 60 without any tint for about $30 posted but they don't have any specs on their website about them.

The car is a 02 WRX, electrically wise (only related to headlights) it has a upgraded alternator (from 70A to 110A), a HKB voltage booster, upgraded headlight harness with relay, 0 gauge earths and alternator wiring, Optima Yellow top and at idle with everything on I get 14.5V which will get the most out of any bulb but may shorten the life a little.

WUtJ0ER.jpg


I've had X-treme Vision and Night Breaker but can't really compare as it was for 2 different cars with different bulb and housing types.

At the moment I have some unopened IPF X4 (Fatboy II) bulbs that are 80w low and 60w high but I'm not sure about the legality of them as well as the following:
Philips X-treme Vision +100%
Philips Power2Night +50% (old ones before they got the blue tint)
Philips Premium +30% (actualy they might just be standard, the boxes look simlar and its in the shed atm)
Philips LongLife EcoVision
Philips Diamond Vision (unopened)
Philips Crystal Vision (unopened)
As well as another pair I can't remember at the moment, I keep the packaging and put them back in it when I swap bulbs over.

For the last few days I've been considering buying a light meter and rigging something up to do my own testing.

Also I just noticed PowerBulbs have another 20% off sale already right after the last one finished.
 

-Virgil-

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Re: Philips "Vision" vs "VisionPlus" vs "X-treme Vision"

I'm not really a fan of anything with a blue tint on the bulb, else the X-treme Vision would have been first choice.

It is unfortunate they increased the size of the blue band on the +130 bulb vs its predecessor +100, but it's still of no detriment to the low beam and relatively minimal detriment to the high beam.

at idle with everything on I get 14.5V which will get the most out of any bulb but may shorten the life a little.

You've got that backwards. With voltage increase, bulb output increases relatively little (exponentially to the power 3.4) while lifespan decreases relatively a lot (exponentially to the power -13).

Take a bulb rated 1000 lumens and 500 hours at 13.2v. Running it at 14.5v will get you 1376 lumens (138% of rated) and drop the lifespan to 147 hours (29% of rated).

At the moment I have some unopened IPF X4 (Fatboy II) bulbs that are 80w low and 60w high but I'm not sure about the legality

They're illegal, and they're also fraudulent junk.

Philips X-treme Vision +100%

Great bulb.

Philips Power2Night +50% (old ones before they got the blue tint)

Rebox of VisionPlus +50

Philips Premium +30% (actualy they might just be standard, the boxes look simlar and its in the shed atm)

Some years back Philips made a show of dropping their plain ordinary bulbs and making the Premium +30 their entry-level bulb.

Philips LongLife EcoVision

Any extended-life bulb is going to reduce your headlamp performance considerably.

Philips Diamond Vision (unopened)
Philips Crystal Vision (unopened)

Pointless blue junk, will reduce your ability to see, leave them unopened.

Even more than installing the best possible bulbs, the #1 thing you can do to improve your ability to see at night is have the headlamps aimed to the highest angle you can talk the mechanic into, but in no case higher than 0.7%. Take advantage of the + side of the +/- aim tolerance! The low settings that are popularly set "for safety" in ECE and quasi-ECE countries (Australia is one of the latter) are in fact highly detrimental to safety; they give grossly insufficient seeing distance at ordinary driving speeds.
 

ezarc

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Re: Philips "Vision" vs "VisionPlus" vs "X-treme Vision"

Yep, Daniel Stern suggested for me to have them adjusted to 0.7% down, also from his website:

10.5V : 510 lumens
11.0V : 597 lumens
11.5V : 695 lumens
12.0V : 803 lumens
12.5V : 923 lumens
12.8V : 1000 lumens ←Rated output voltage
13.0V : 1054 lumens
13.5V : 1198 lumens
14.0V : 1356 lumens ←Rated life voltage
[FONT=verdana, Verdana, Ariel, sans-serif]14.5V : 1528 lumens
[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana, Verdana, Ariel, sans-serif]Above is based on a standard 1000 lumen bulb.

[/FONT]Not exactly sure but it seems the rated life voltage would mean the hours quoted on the box at that voltage.

Funnily enough I wrote to ARB AU (who didn't reply) ARB US and IPF in Japan about the voltages, ARB US said "14.5V is fine", IPF said something along the lines of "they are designed work at 12V, 13V at the very maximum". I replied telling them most automotive electrical systems are 13.2-14.5V from factory and asked if they could get me a answer from someone in R&D or an electrical engineer but then they never replied after the first time.

[FONT=verdana, Verdana, Ariel, sans-serif]As for the bulbs I have.. the Diamond Vision and Crystal Vision I have lots of each, I got them for dirt cheap when the local spares shop was closing down, I never intended to use them but just never got around to selling them like I thought was a great idea at the time. The IPF was a impulse buy and the LongLife EcoVision were in the car when bought it but I'm just hanging on to them cos I don't want to throw out good bulbs.

I have a bunch of questions for Phillips that I've been wanting to ask but haven't gotten around to.
[/FONT]
 

ezarc

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Re: Philips "Vision" vs "VisionPlus" vs "X-treme Vision"

To add to the above, I also remember Daniel saying something like the lights adjusted to factory specs would only travel 40ish meters (less if lowered which it is) and at 0.7% down the light would travel 86 meters.

Here is some low beam adjustment info he sent to me which is very useful information

The cutoff of a low beam headlamp, mounted (for instance) 60 cm above the road surface, will intersect the road surface at:
86 metres in front of the car if aimed 0.7% down
60 metres in front of the car if aimed 1% down
46 metres in front of the car if aimed 1.3% down
40 metres in front of the car if aimed 1.5% down
30 metres in front of the car if aimed 2% down

Assuming realistic coefficient of kinetic friction between (decent) tyres and (dry) road of 0.6, and including the well-accepted 2 seconds' recognition and reaction time of a fully alert driver, our maximum safe speed is:
37 km/h with 2% aim declination
47 km/h with 1.5% aim declination
52 km/h with 1.3% aim declination
63 km/h with 1% aim declination
82 km/h with 0.7% aim declination

That last part really shows the importance of properly aimed headlights.
 

-Virgil-

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Re: Philips "Vision" vs "VisionPlus" vs "X-treme Vision"

Not exactly sure but it seems the rated life voltage would mean the hours quoted on the box at that voltage.

The 14v life / 12.8v output thing is the USA custom. Rest of world ratings are 13.2v for both (except certain signal bulbs, not headlamps, are rated for both at 13.5v).
 

harro

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Re: Philips "Vision" vs "VisionPlus" vs "X-treme Vision"

Hi ezarc and welcome to CPF. Here's some testing my eyes have done, and its backed up by absolutely no scientific methods and tests whatsoever.
Wifes Ford Fiesta, standard 60/55 halogens, acceptable without being great. Change to Philips Xtremevision 100's, low gives a slightly better light, with less dark patches in the beam, seemingly nicer, sharper cutoff at beam top. High gives maybe a bit more distance, and again, the dark patches seem reduced. Eye strain, for me, is definitely reduced.
My Golf GTD. Standard H7 halogens hi and low, were pretty average ( read poor ). Phillips Xtremevision 100's, very similar result to the Fiesta for low. High ( 4 bulbs burning ) gave the biggest difference. A reasonable beam and distance with reduced dark patches and no eye strain for me.
Both cars have had professional headlight aiming ( not against the shed doors ). Number of oncoming motorists flashing to complain about bright lights ( both cars ).....ZERO.
To me, its about making the most of what I have, by correct setup, and using a quality bulb to take advantage of the setup.
Cheers.
 

ezarc

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Re: Philips "Vision" vs "VisionPlus" vs "X-treme Vision"

After testing the IPF X4 (Fatboy II) I didn't notice much improvement over the Philips Long Life bulbs so I put them back in the packet, then on recommendation I decided to try the Osram Silverstar 2.0 as they are the highest rated bulbs I can find that don't have a blue tint.

I thought I'd be getting a nice golden glow from them but they are nearly pure white (not what I expected or wanted) and are quite a lot brighter. A few hours ago someone high beamed me in my first 5 mins of driving at night so I high beamed them back, thats never happened in that car before with other bulbs.

I may or may not keep them in, if I do keep then in for now I'll have to change the parking lights as they look orange in comparison and as they are both on at the same time they don't look nice together.

I'll probably grab a pair of Vision Plus to compare them with and after I decide I'll look for a place that does proper headlight alignments as the 2 garages here just do them against the wall.
 

e_dogg

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Re: Philips "Vision" vs "VisionPlus" vs "X-treme Vision"

Bumping this older thread as I'm looking to upgrade my low beam headlight bulbs....

I have a 2016 Accord which uses an H11 halogen bulb in a projector housing. Being that the car is new, the housings are in perfect condition. I'd like to achieve two things:

1) Improve the light output. I previously drove a BMW X5 with HID lights and I replaced the dying bulbs with Osram Night Breakers, which were incredible. The OEM lights on my Accord seem very dim by comparison.

2) Make the light a cooler white to match the DRLs and fog lamps, which are both LED and a very cool white (purely for styling - the OEM bulb is super yellow compared to the LED lights and looks ugly).

My initial instinct was to convert to an LED, and I found some nice looking kits from Genssi and GTR (video about the GTR here). But after reading CPF, it sounds like that's not a good idea so I'll abandon that idea and stick with halogen bulbs, which leads me to my questions.

Why would anyone choose anything less than the X-treme Vision (+100% / +130%) bulb? Also, it seems like the H11 only comes in the +100% version - is that correct?

And, finally, being that I was thrilled with my HID Night Breakers on my previous car, are the Philips bulbs any better?
 

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