Philips XtremeVision H11 vs Xenon Depot 5000k HID/halogen projectors

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Crvrav

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Are there any upgrades under consideration for the H11 halogen projector? I’m still using the XtremeVision bulbs. In the past I tried XD HID’s and not only were thy way too bright, but they were dangerous to oncoming traffic.
 
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idleprocess

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It's either a halogen projector or a HID projector, full stop.

Since you're comparing a Philips XtremeVision to something from Xenon Depot, I'm going to guess that it's a halogen projector, meaning you use halogen lamps in it. HID 'kits' using halogen bases don't produce a compliant pattern, typically flood the foreground with unwanted light, have a tendency to cook reflector bowls not designed to handle their UV leakage, and can cause electrical problems. They're also illegal and demonstrably more dangerous than stock lights.

EDIT: And it looks like you edited your post shortly before I submitted mine.

I gather the typical continuity for halogen assemblies is to upgrade bulbs, determine whether or not there is sufficient voltage drop to justify a relay harness, replace the assemblies with new OEM. I recall that some of The H series bulbs can accommodate higher-wattage versions with some physical modification of the bulb - more light with an otherwise identical filament location/dimensions/radiation pattern - but I'm not sure on the strict legality of this. A relay harness can address the issue of voltage drop - if present - by using thicker-gauge wire from the battery to the lamps, using the typically thin-gauge vehicle harness simply to control the relays. New OEM assemblies will perform better and last markedly longer than aftermarket assemblies and the ever-changing variety of restoration kits; in the latter case, no amount of magic UV protectant in the polish will match what was originally baked into the OEM headlamp.

Otherwise, the aftermarket by and large has products best avoided. While one can retrofit in a HID projector system that produces complaint output on a test stand, shoehorning it into a random set of housings is quite likely to alter the output enough that it's no longer compliant. Most of the LED offerings are supreme examples of bay/zon 6-month half-life brand marketing where they are indeed bright ... for the first 60 seconds, and in every direction but where you actually need the light; industry may well eventually solve the problem of shoehorning LED-shaped lamps into the halogen-shaped hole, but it hasn't happened yet.
 
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Crvrav

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It's either a halogen projector or a HID projector, full stop.

Since you're comparing a Philips XtremeVision to something from Xenon Depot, I'm going to guess that it's a halogen projector, meaning you use halogen lamps in it. HID 'kits' using halogen bases don't produce a compliant pattern, typically flood the foreground with unwanted light, have a tendency to cook reflector bowls not designed to handle their UV leakage, and can cause electrical problems. They're also illegal and demonstrably more dangerous than stock lights.

Thanks! Is there anything close to the XtremeVision that I should consider? Meaning has anything come into the market that updated or new and performs just as well or better?
 
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idleprocess

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Thanks! Is there anything close to the XtremeVision that I should consider?

As I understand it, the general hierarchy is as follows with preferences in each tier presented in descending order. Note that at each tier performance improves, cost increases, and lifespan is cut markedly.

  • Basic Tier Philips / Osram "standard" or "original"
  • Tier 3 Osram Nightbreaker Unlimited, GE Nighthawk Platinum
  • Tier 2 Philips XtremeVision, Osram Night Breaker Laser, GE Nighthawk Xenon
  • Tier 1 Philips Racing Vision

I'd personally be leery of the single Tier 1 suggestion. I gather they're branded as racing bulbs for a reason: tens of hours lifespan, reflector-melting wattages, and exceptionally high price points.

Other members or the mods may come along with more specific suggestions.

I've personally used Philips XtremeVision in two vehicles and the jump from stock was a significant improvement. However, my daily driver was new at the time and in the other vehicle this was concurrent with a headlamp assembly replacement. Of course, there were no revolutionary increases in perceptible output nor miracles of pattern change.
 

Crvrav

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As I understand it, the general hierarchy is as follows with preferences in each tier presented in descending order. Note that at each tier performance improves, cost increases, and lifespan is cut markedly.

  • Basic Tier Philips / Osram "standard" or "original"
  • Tier 3 Osram Nightbreaker Unlimited, GE Nighthawk Platinum
  • Tier 2 Philips XtremeVision, Osram Night Breaker Laser, GE Nighthawk Xenon
  • Tier 1 Philips Racing Vision

I'd personally be leery of the single Tier 1 suggestion. I gather they're branded as racing bulbs for a reason: tens of hours lifespan, reflector-melting wattages, and exceptionally high price points.

Other members or the mods may come along with more specific suggestions.

I've personally used Philips XtremeVision in two vehicles and the jump from stock was a significant improvement. However, my daily driver was new at the time and in the other vehicle this was concurrent with a headlamp assembly replacement. Of course, there were no revolutionary increases in perceptible output nor miracles of pattern change.
Osram Nightbreaker Laser and GE Nighthawk Xenon vs Philips XtremeVision is what I would like to compare if possible.

This site shows Osram Unlimited as actually brighter than the Osram Laser version?
http://bulbfacts.com/halogen-bulbs/reviews/

Night Breaker Laser doesn’t come in an h11 size? https://www.osram.com/am/ecat/NIGHT...01_2780218/PP_EUROPE_Europe_eCat/ZMP_4054436/
 
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jzchen

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Depending on each specific application, H9 can be possibly be used as an upgrade. But as far as I know only the moderators here know for sure which applications are safe to do so, usually projector beam lamps, not reflector.
 

Crvrav

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Depending on each specific application, H9 can be possibly be used as an upgrade. But as far as I know only the moderators here know for sure which applications are safe to do so, usually projector beam lamps, not reflector.

I am more looking at the Philips XtremeVisions vs GE NightHawk Xenon since those are the only h11 sizes in the stronger variants on the list above.
 

Crvrav

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As I understand it, the general hierarchy is as follows with preferences in each tier presented in descending order. Note that at each tier performance improves, cost increases, and lifespan is cut markedly.

  • Basic Tier Philips / Osram "standard" or "original"
  • Tier 3 Osram Nightbreaker Unlimited, GE Nighthawk Platinum
  • Tier 2 Philips XtremeVision, Osram Night Breaker Laser, GE Nighthawk Xenon
  • Tier 1 Philips Racing Vision

I'd personally be leery of the single Tier 1 suggestion. I gather they're branded as racing bulbs for a reason: tens of hours lifespan, reflector-melting wattages, and exceptionally high price points.

Other members or the mods may come along with more specific suggestions.

I've personally used Philips XtremeVision in two vehicles and the jump from stock was a significant improvement. However, my daily driver was new at the time and in the other vehicle this was concurrent with a headlamp assembly replacement. Of course, there were no revolutionary increases in perceptible output nor miracles of pattern change.

Are you referring to XtremeVision 100 or 130%?
 

64.5vette

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I'd personally be leery of the single Tier 1 suggestion. I gather they're branded as racing bulbs for a reason: tens of hours lifespan, reflector-melting wattages, and exceptionally high price points.

They are still legal, regulation abiding bulbs so they are not over wattage nor vehicle damaging. Racing vision provides a limited increase over XVs for about half the lifespan. Unless it's their last upgrade option its not suited for most people. XVs are great bulbs, but for a few sizes NHXs were better IIRC.
 

Alaric Darconville

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I'd personally be leery of the single Tier 1 suggestion. I gather they're branded as racing bulbs for a reason: tens of hours lifespan, reflector-melting wattages, and exceptionally high price points.

The Philips RacingVision bulbs are not overwattage. However, the filament's hot spot is smaller and hotter, reducing the bulb life.

I’m actually leaning towards the Osram NightBreaker Unlimited vs the XtremeVision’s. Someone correct this website if they are wrong, but the Osram’s seem whiter and stronger no?
White light is white. When a bulb is described by the marketer as "whiter" that usually means a blue coating has been applied, stripping useful light from the bulb.
 

-Virgil-

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If I need an optimal H11, this GE NHX is the one I'm reaching for. Unlike the Philips and Osram product, it has only a tiny, thin band of blue tint right at the tip where it makes no difference. The Osram and Philips bulbs do have a clear band around the filament, but they also have bigger blue areas on the glass, which can only reduce the amount of light reaching the road. All of these bulbs are going to have short lifespan relative to a standard or LL bulb, but that doesn't matter much because (1) the LL bulbs start out dim and they live long enough to become really dim, whereas the high-perf bulbs burn out before they can dim significantly, and (2) even expensive bulbs are cheap compared to a crash.
 

Crvrav

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If I need an optimal H11, this GE NHX is the one I'm reaching for. Unlike the Philips and Osram product, it has only a tiny, thin band of blue tint right at the tip where it makes no difference. The Osram and Philips bulbs do have a clear band around the filament, but they also have bigger blue areas on the glass, which can only reduce the amount of light reaching the road. All of these bulbs are going to have short lifespan relative to a standard or LL bulb, but that doesn't matter much because (1) the LL bulbs start out dim and they live long enough to become really dim, whereas the high-perf bulbs burn out before they can dim significantly, and (2) even expensive bulbs are cheap compared to a crash.

Why would you choose this bulb over the GE Nighthawk Xenon? Oh wait that’s the same one actually. I can find one for $35 on eBay.
 
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Alaric Darconville

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eBay seller has very high ratings. Package looks exactly the same on amazon as it does on eBay.
Like, EXACTLY the same, in that they used the same stock photo? Because OBVS....

I do see some sellers in which it looks like they took their own pictures of finished goods; maybe they're not counterfeit, but the state of the art of counterfeiting moves ever upwards. In the one I found, the printed portion of the packaging looks different, but those can change frequently.

In one I'm looking at, it might just be legit because there's even a finely-detailed REG #153A230 molded into the shell, so it's either a reused shell or it's just a dang good counterfeit. But for the most part, one must be wary of counterfeit bulbs in eBay and even Amazon (particularly when it comes to certain Osram Rallye bulbs which have been discontinued). And the other with the packaging the matches does look like a separate picture of a finished good and not the manufacturer stock photo.


I'm getting a kick from the packaging saying "No HID kit required". They're right, no car requires an HID kit! :)

What do you mean.(sic)
He means what he means. eBay and Amazon can be rife with counterfeit products, and many people never know what they have purchased is a counterfeit. Examples include the HIR1 and HIR2 bulbs that people claim fit their HB3 or HB4 headlamps without any base modification at all, which is quite impossible-- the base of the HIRx is keyed such that no HBx lamp can accept one without the bulb being modified.
 

-Virgil-

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They don't even have to be counterfeit. They could be from a pallet of bulbs that was supposed to go to scrap because it fell off a lift truck, or a loading dock or a warehouse shelf or whatever, but got "creatively redirected out of the waste stream" (snuck off the premises by an employee and what do you know, now there's a super deal on Ebay...)
 

Crvrav

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They don't even have to be counterfeit. They could be from a pallet of bulbs that was supposed to go to scrap because it fell off a lift truck, or a loading dock or a warehouse shelf or whatever, but got "creatively redirected out of the waste stream" (snuck off the premises by an employee and what do you know, now there's a super deal on Ebay...)

So how do we know where to buy these bulbs since not too many places have them available even??? We’re told to stay away from hid and led, but to go on a wild goose chase to find halogens.
 

Alaric Darconville

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So how do we know where to buy these bulbs since not too many places have them available even??? We’re told to stay away from hid and led, but to go on a wild goose chase to find halogens.

I think many of your arguments are based on the misapprehension that bulb makers have stopped making bulbs, but among the legitimate makers, that's not quite the case. It will be QUITE a long time before they stop making halogen bulbs for cars.

Automakers are still making cars with halogen headlamps. There's a HUGE installed base of cars using halogen bulbs going back (in the US) to 1983, and unlike a table lamp or a chandelier, the lamp MUST take the right bulb to work correctly.

It's not like with household bulbs that we've seen 75W and higher incandescent types (other than specialty bulbs like 3-way or heat lamps) being banned from production and slowly disappearing from the market. For those wanting the light from an A21, 100W filament bulb, they can get an LED bulb in that form factor at very nearly, if not the same, output. It's not going to get anyone killed to do so. There is a wide selection of LED and CFL bulbs that work as well as, or better, than the filament bulbs they replaced (although I put a CFL in my Easy*Bake Oven to save electricity and the brownies don't seem to cook right). However, for automotive use, there are no LED or CFL bulbs to replace the original halogen bulb-- so there is still a NEED to manufacture halogen bulbs, so that cars aren't obsolesced for want of a simple bulb to make it road legal.

Even with cars getting HIDs (a transitional technology) and more and more cars getting LED, again: Cars are still being made with halogen bulbs, and there's still new development in halogen bulbs, both in improving existing types and in introducing new ones-- about 3 years ago the H18, H19, and H20 were introduced (the last one being almost toylike); I'm not sure if cars are using them now or not but the bulbs were still developed.

Because of this persistent demand, and because some of these bulbs in particular are so desirable (like the GE Night Hawk Xenon), there WILL be counterfeiting and there will be parts entering the supply chain fraudulently (like the theoretical dropped pallet of bulbs). Yes, it can be hard for the end user to know if what they have is legitimate-- sometimes there are overt clues (such as that HIR1 bulb that fits an HB3 socket without base modification), but other times it's harder to tell. And while a high price isn't necessarily proof the item is legitimate, when random sellers on Amazon or eBay can provide a premium bulb at an impossibly-low price, that should raise a red flag or two.
 
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-Virgil-

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crvrav said:
We’re told to stay away from hid and led, but to go on a wild goose chase to find halogens.
It's not a "wild goose chase" to find good halogen bulbs, especially not when you're given a reliable link. I think this thread's done now; the questions are getting thoughtless and silly.
 
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