Pics posted! New flashlight in advanced design.

[Barbarin]

Hi flashaholics. What do you think about this?
- 2C (batteries), 1 LS (light source) slightly overdriven, perfectly cooled.
- Anodized aircraft Al. made.
- Cilindrical 175 mm.x29 mm (lxd).Just a little more than three C batteries on series
- Waterproof 100 mts.(300 feet)
- 4 operating modes. Pulse, ON max., ON eco., Flashing.
- First test has shown more than 8 hours Max
- With clip.
- Price around 72 Eu, 80 $
- Easy to replace, non custom, protecting lens

 

[Badbeams3]

What can I say...that would be a winner!

 

[remuen]

Just as Ken B said: A winner!

Especially if it would be available in Europe where we haven't to pay an additional $30 for shipment and taxes ......

 

[Daniel Ramsey]

Is this non-regulated? It does sound acceptable for a first run product.As for the size some may incur that the C size is too big for personal carry but would have definate uses.How about a 123 size case? That would be shorter yet hand grip friendly. The other popular size would naturally be the AA which is worlwide available and in many battery types such as Lithiums and Metal hydride.I firmly believe voltage regulation is the key to utilizing the flat and consistant battery run time though I have been selling dozens of resistance dropped models of both single Nichia 6400 whites and also single Luxeons in the Brinkmann Legend cases.These have been in field Beta testing by fellow fuel delivery drivers and others that I know personally in the construction trade here in central Alaska.Are you building your own cases? So far the Brinkmanns have been my choice but I am about to invest in a compact lathe/milling machine and also the anodizing equipment.I suspect my designs will follow Surefire in certain areas but not an outright copy.

 

[Silviron]

Sounds good to me-

I LIKE the C size. Don't listen to these folks that always whine about wanting it smaller- Small size is well taken care of by the Photons and Arcs etc.

There is a large contingent of people that want a light that they don't have to worry about changing batteries every two to four hours.

I think normal homeowners would like something they can toss in a drawer, and if there is a power outage or a natural disaster they can grab something that will last them for 24 hours or more, without having to look for new batteries. Ditto for campers etc.

Same thing with people who do a lot of night work (Police, security guards, linesmen etc.), needing light on a regular basis, not intermittently like the average person.

That way, they can save their Sure-Fires for when they need a long, bright beam, and use their C cell LS for their more common lighting needs.

I'm not sure that the flashing is necessary-- Max and "economy" are good- The flashing settings on my PalLight and Photon 3 are just irritations to me.

Maybe offer the flashing as an extra cost option- So few people have much use for the flashing- I can't think of anything real good use for that except in signalling for rescue.....

Actually, something like your original concept would be great for aircraft and boating emergencies....

 

[Glow Bug]

Glow bug the whiner would like either AA or 123 version. Size does matter ask my....other flashlight friend

I would accept a C version though...grudgingly

Can you make a rechargeable li-Ion 123 while you are at it?

 

[Empath]

The features look great, and functionally it would seem sufficient. However, for $80 you need more than a flashlight. You need something that is artistically a showpiece of craftsmanship. The Surefires, and the expectations of the Arc LS are more than functioning flashlights. Otherwise, the higher price tag would be prohibitive.

 

[Barbarin]

Thanks to all for your opinions!
Well, I will try to answer your questions.

- C batteries. I decided to use these batteries because they are cheap, easy to find all over the world and had enough capacity to keep the flashlight working one night long. Have you ever tried to find a 123 in India, or Maroc? I did, and it was almost impossible. Some flashlight are like Ferraris, I want to make Willy's or Land Rover.

- Regulated. Yes, of course is the best way.
This way we can use different brands and types and get the same light output.

- Flashing option. When I began this project I was thinking about Police, adventurers, rescue teams...In fact local Police is going to be my first customer. To be seen sometimes is more important than to see, and I liked the idea of something hanging on your belt flashing when you try to help on a car crash.
The idea of the optional flashing sound good, but one of the most expensive parts is the design and manufacturing of the circuit. flashing will be there, and I hope you will never have to use it...but if one day you need it you will remind this topic.

- Quality, design. Yes I'm making my own cases. Do you think a Land Rover or a Willys is a piece of art? In that case this flashlight is going to be. I will post some pics in 10 days, or so. I have focused the design in making something with few pieces, fully functional, easy to replace in anywhere lens and rubber switches cover (no custom pieces) including some simple but effective solutions never seen on a flashlight.
Of course I'm going to use the best materials available, but functionality is over any other considerations.

Thanks to all

 

[Joe Talmadge]

Different strokes, and all that. For me, it's uninteresting with Cs, but interesting with AAs and 123As. Just out of curiosity, can an LS run off a 4xAA double-barrel config? How 'bout 4xAAA?

 

[Silviron]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Glow Bug:
Glow bug the whiner would like either AA or 123 version. Size does matter ask my....other flashlight friend

I would accept a C version though...grudgingly

Can you make a rechargeable li-Ion 123 while you are at it?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah size does matter- My wife likes her 6D cell maglight.

I agree on the rechargable lithium ions- I wish one of the big manufacturers would get involved in developing one.

The charger is the problem; I've been playing with some LiIons but haven't found a suitable charger or circuit that is inexpensive to buy or easy to build. Those LI chargers are COMPLICATED.

National has a charger eval board that charges LI, NiCd, NiMH that I'd like to have but it is sixty bucks http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM3647.html----
Oh, I just checked their site- they have a new eval. board for LI only for a more reasonable twenty dollars. http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM3621.html

 

[Darell]

If it's regulated, I'm in!

One thing that I'd really like to see happening in new lights is the inclusion of a very low aperage, extremely high-efficiency marker LED. Something that could be left on for several years, and make the light glow continuously. Think Pal light, but you don't need to use the main LED for for the marker light, or Eternalight X-ray.

Build it and I will come.

 

[L.E.D.]

Hey barbarin is a flashlight manufacturer?

 

[Barbarin]

About batteries configurations.
IMHO 4 AA or 4 AAA wastes a lot of space, at least if you use cilindrical cases.1 D gots more or less 7 AA's charge, but you just can put 4 AA on the same room.
If you want to make a waterproof case cilidrical design is simpler and more effective

 

[Coherence]

barbarin,

Can you tell us any more about the switch design? This seems to be a weak point in many lights.

Since it is to be waterproof are you using a twist on/off head? Unfortunately these usually requre two hands to operate.

How do you operate the different modes of the light?

 

[Coherence]

I made a little chart, it shows battery capacity (in watt-hours) of common types, normalized so the AA alkaline = 1.00

battery--------------capacity

AA alkaline----------1.00

AA lithium-----------1.02

C alkaline-----------2.93

D alkaline-----------6.32

123A lithium---------0.91

AAA alkaline---------0.40

AAAA alkaline--------0.21

Yes, that's right, a 123A has less energy than a AA alkaline. What the lithium batteries are good at is delivering large currents with while maintaining their voltage.

The way I buy batteries is to order 123A's (at about $3 a piece) and just buy all the other types at local retail stores, so for me a C cell costs about $1.

Now I would never give up my E2, but for a LED light it is attractive to me to NOT use 123A's. I can buy the same amount of energy in a C cell for 1/10 the price, and replacement cells are readily available.

 

[Glow Bug]

Silviron-

Have you found any LiIons close to the size and voltage of the 123s? If so, where can I get a hold of two of em???

PK U out there?? I know you got at least one.

 

[Silviron]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Glow Bug:
Silviron-

Have you found any LiIons close to the size and voltage of the 123s? Is so, where can I get a hold of two of em???

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I haven't really looked, but with all the various cell phones out there, I wouln't be surprised if there was something close.

Lithium Ions are 3.6 V nominal (4.1 - 4.2V fresh off the charger).

I just bought a few from All Electronics that are 21mm X 50mm (about 4mm X 15mm larger than 123) and they are the smallest I have "messed with".
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=100&item=BTE-600&type=store

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Barbarin it sounds like you've come up with a winner here.

For me I'd ditch the flashing circuitry and replace it with a variable resistor. This way we can have as much or as little light as we require.

C batteries are good but if you can design a 2D torch which is still comfortable to use, thats even better. Like Coherence has pointed out, D batteries last more than twice as long as C batteries and are selling for around the same price.

Voltage regulation is a great idea although finding one with good efficiency at such low power ratings can be hard.

Switch design is also pretty important. I personally dislike twist-on torches. I quite like the quiet switch on the Energizer double barrels.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Empath is right about it needing to be a work of art.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It doesn't have to be a Monet or anything.. just don't not ugly. Clean (like the Innova 5x) and functional.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>IMHO 4 AA or 4 AAA wastes a lot of space<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I dunno. 4 AA and a Luxeon isn't such a bad idea, especially if you're looking for a small and light torch.

AA cells are extremely cheap and are always easy to find. This option gives you the ability to use a parallel/series circuit to get the most out of the batteries. I wouldn't mind seeing a Luxeon properly used in a Turtlelite body (with the faceted reflector).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Yes, that's right, a 123A has less energy than a AA alkaline. What the lithium batteries are good at is delivering large currents with while maintaining their voltage.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Huh? Are you sure about your calculations? 123As according to Energizer have 98% the capacity of their AAs (only a small difference). Also when we step up to the Luxeons, the current draw is now significantly higher, so 2x 123A should last longer than 2x Alkaline AAs, even the more expensive high-current varieties (Duracell Ultra, E^2).

123A also have a much flatter discharge curve and will give a brighter light for longer while the AA alkalines will drop off. Thats most probably why Surefire decided to use lithiums even in their large torches.

BUT watt/$ the AA Alkaline thump the lithiums. You may have to replace them more frequently but it'll still be a lot cheaper.

Well thats enough rambling for me today

 

[Go Go Gadget Flashlight]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Someguy:
...Snip....
Huh? Are you sure about your calculations? 123As according to Energizer have 98% the capacity of their AAs (only a small difference). ....Snip....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I initially doubted the calc's too. But, you have to remember, 123's are 3v. So to compare, you have to evaluate 2 AA's vs. 1 123. I agree with his calculations. One 123 has 91% (EDIT: Coherence has it correct) the power of two AA's.

I think Surefire uses the 123's mainly because of the high current capability and the small form factor. 6 volts of high current power in the space of less than 2 AA's.

 

[Coherence]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Huh? Are you sure about your calculations? 123As according to Energizer have 98% the capacity of their AAs (only a small difference).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I got data from data.energizer.com


Here is the calculation:

energy = watt hours = Volts x (Ampere hours)

123A lithium
energy = 3.00 x 1.300 = 3.90

AA alkaline
energy = 1.50 x 2.850 = 4.28

So ratio of 123A to AA = 3.90 / 4.28 = 0.91

Now there are a lot of assumptions going on here, some of which would never occur in real life (constant voltage).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Also when we step up to the Luxeons, the current draw is now significantly higher, so 2x 123A should last longer than 2x Alkaline AAs, even the more expensive high-current varieties (Duracell Ultra, E^2). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is very true for high current devices. If you are draining a battery in 1 hour, you need lithium (or NiCad etc.) If you are draining a battery in 4 hours, a Duracell or Energizer alkaline can keep up. If the current draw is significantly less, the Ray-O-Vac wins! (based on other CPF members data).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>123A also have a much flatter discharge curve and will give a brighter light for longer while the AA alkalines will drop off.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True in most flashlights, but as barbarin mentioned

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Regulated. Yes, of course is the best way.
This way we can use different brands and types and get the same light output.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now my personal experience is that lithium cells are great, and numbers like the above don't do them justice. I think that a Li AA is about twice as valuable as an alkaline, not '1.02'

Since the TESTED runtime of the circuit (a much more important number than anything theoretical) is 8 hours at full brightness then alkalines should work fine I think.

(if I made any math errors someone please correct them...)