Power Outage, How many Lumens, How many batteries? (for lights and more)

[Min Min]

.....What do you do to prepare for a brown-out in the summer?

Summer months in my region it’s high bushfire risk, brown/blackouts are frequent during this time. We have batteries, gensets, pumps all at the ready. One thing that is a great backup that I have setup for camping are 12 volt inverters. Mine are 1800w pure sinewave fixed to my vehicle in which I fitted a dual battery system (primarily to run a winch & fridge)....most people wouldn’t need this setup as it costs some decent coin, yet the same inverters are portable.
It’s just a case of attaching it to your car battery with the jumper leads and you’re up and going. Pure sine wave inverters over modified sine wave are more practical for equipment with sensitive electronics and lower wattage output inverters don’t cost a great deal.

..... and my Grandkids call me Poppy too!

 

[Poppy]

I also like sticking these in the freezer https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00V9ITMYC/?tag=cpf0b6-20
They can stay frozen for several days in a freezer or cooler for camping etc. without the mess from melting ice.

Depending on the size of the freezer/fridge and how full it is, it's also an option to freeze more of those and put a few in the fridge.


Max

Hi Max,
We buy bottled water by the case, and I often put 6 - 12 bottles in the freezer and will use them as ice in a cooler. When they melt, they are still cold water, and they don't make the mess of melted ice cubes. I hadn't considered packing the freezer with them in preparation of a possible outage.

Even in one of those cheap vinyl insulated bags, a couple of them will stay partially frozen for a good part of the day even in a hot car in the sun.

 

[bluemax_1]

Hi Max,
We buy bottled water by the case, and I often put 6 - 12 bottles in the freezer and will use them as ice in a cooler. When they melt, they are still cold water, and they don't make the mess of melted ice cubes. I hadn't consider packing the freezer with them in preparation of a possible outage.

Even in one of those cheap vinyl insulated bags, a couple of them will stay partially frozen for a good part of the day even in a hot car in the sun.

The fuller the freezer is with completely frozen items, the longer it stays cold. So yes, packing the freezer with bottled water while you still have power, in preparation for a potential power outage, can help keep the freezer cold a good bit longer.

When I was a kid, we always had a few freezer packs in the freezer at any given time. It made it convenient for just grabbing and tossing them in a cooler on a whim for impromptu, spur of the moment picnics/outings. Apparently, my dad was also savvy to the fact that keeping a few in the freezer at any given time would help keep food frozen for several days in the event of a sudden power outage.

One of the cool (cold?) things about those freezer gel packs is how cold they get. If you take a couple frozen bottles of water and stick them in a cooler with other bottles of room temperature water, the frozen bottles will make the room temperature bottles cooler, but the room temperature bottles will start thawing out the frozen bottles.

The gel packs get cold enough that they'll freeze the water in room temperature bottles placed in the cooler in contact with the freezer packs. That they get that cold is the reason they can keep the freezer (or items in a cooler) colder for a longer duration than regular (not dry) ice.

Freezing bottled water is a great and inexpensive option though. I would advise folks considering trying the bottled water option to make sure that they get 'good' bottles though. There are lots of companies with bottled water and not all the caps are created equal. I've had some bottles that cracked/broke/popped the cap when the water froze from leaving it in the SUV in winter. Off the top of my head, I know the caps on Aquafina bottles have no problems due to the water freezing (I have a habit of leaving a case of water in the SUV)


Max

 

[Rick NJ]

The fuller the freezer is with completely frozen items, the longer it stays cold. So yes, packing the freezer with bottled water while you still have power, in preparation for a potential power outage, can help keep the freezer cold a good bit longer.

When I was a kid, we always had a few freezer packs in the freezer at any given time. It made it convenient for just grabbing and tossing them in a cooler on a whim for impromptu, spur of the moment picnics/outings. Apparently, my dad was also savvy to the fact that keeping a few in the freezer at any given time would help keep food frozen for several days in the event of a sudden power outage.

One of the cool (cold?) things about those freezer gel packs is how cold they get. If you take a couple frozen bottles of water and stick them in a cooler with other bottles of room temperature water, the frozen bottles will make the room temperature bottles cooler, but the room temperature bottles will start thawing out the frozen bottles.

The gel packs get cold enough that they'll freeze the water in room temperature bottles placed in the cooler in contact with the freezer packs. That they get that cold is the reason they can keep the freezer (or items in a cooler) colder for a longer duration than regular (not dry) ice.

Freezing bottled water is a great and inexpensive option though. I would advise folks considering trying the bottled water option to make sure that they get 'good' bottles though. There are lots of companies with bottled water and not all the caps are created equal. I've had some bottles that cracked/broke/popped the cap when the water froze from leaving it in the SUV in winter. Off the top of my head, I know the caps on Aquafina bottles have no problems due to the water freezing (I have a habit of leaving a case of water in the SUV)


Max

Frozen water has the added advantage of being able to be a cold drink to help cooling a person down. But if you are interesting in merely "storing more coldness" to keep things frozen longer, old milk/pop-drink bottle with salt do nicely. Since the water in there is not for drinking, road-salt is a good way to get cheap concentrated salt.

The salt-water makes a good "make-shift gel packs" even in the winter. I put them outdoor to get as cold as possible overnight, then put them in my "powerless" freezer. That helps keep food cold enough not to be spoiled.

 

[reppans]

I have five gallons of gas for the generator. I put them into my car's gas tank, then topped off the car's tank and put fresh gas in the containers for the genny.....

What do you do to prepare for a brown-out in the summer?

This.... (also for the genny).

.... For transportation fuel conservation, we have a ~50 mpg hybrid car, and motorcycle, but I do need to learn/practice how to defeat modern vehicle's anti-siphon/roll-over protection safety valves to shift fuel between vehicles...

 

[Poppy]

This whole gel pack VS ice idea has me thinking, and having to look stuff up, to refresh what I learned in chemistry, back when Edison was inventing the light bulb hehe 🙂 .

First. The definition stated backwards: A calorie is the amount of heat that a gram of water can absorb that raises itself one degree Celsius.
Second: a kilogram of water can absorb 1000 calories for each degree it warms Celsius. A kilogram of water is about one US quart.
Third: When water changes state, IE from frozen solid to liquid, it absorbs 80 calories per gram, or 80,000 calories per kilogram/quart.
Fourth: Normally a domestic freezer is best set to −18 °C (0 °F) or colder

From what I have read, it seems to me that these gel packs, and frozen salt water, can not absorb more calories than a similar amount of water, (and they can't get colder than ice, but rather can only get as cold as the freezer is set at) but both, shift the temperature of the change of state, from solid to liquid to lower temperatures than regular ice.

Temperatures of change of state:
Pure water freezes at 32F/0C
Salt water freezes at (depending upon the concentration) 22F/ -5.5C
The gel packs that Max pointed to freeze at 18F/ -7.8C

Given all the above information, it seems to me that if you wanted to keep things frozen, such as in your freezer, then you would do well to use the frozen salt water, or frozen gell because their "boost" of heat absorption (temperatures of change of state) will occur below the freezing point of water. OTOH, if your goal is to keep food/drinks cold, but not frozen, such as in the refrigerator, or in a cooler, then you may be better served by using frozen water, that boosts its heat absorption when the inside temp reaches 32F ( the recommended fridge temp is 40F or lower).

I believe that the conduction of thermal energy, is greater with an increased temperature difference across the insulative barrier, in other words, the colder it is inside the fridge, the quicker it will absorb calories from the outside.

Regarding camping, and using a cooler:
Perhaps a blend of both technologies may work well. Ideally, any foods that you plan to put in the cooler, you should bring to nearly freezing in the home refrigerator first.

 

[Poppy]

This.... (also for the genny).

Originally Posted by reppans

.... For transportation fuel conservation, we have a ~50 mpg hybrid car, and motorcycle, but I do need to learn/practice how to defeat modern vehicle's anti-siphon/roll-over protection safety valves to shift fuel between vehicles...

Modern, and not so modern cars/trucks with fuel injection, have an electric fuel pump in the gas tank. If you send power to the pump, and can capture the gas from somewhere along the fuel line, you can use the pump to get the gas out of the tank.
Most, if not all pumps will be powered by a relay. If you look at the relay, and it has four pins, two will be larger, and two smaller. If you jumper the larger pins, that will power the pump.

Two places that may be convenient to open the fuel line will be at the fuel filter, or at the fuel rail. You will probably need a specialty tool to disconnect the fuel line, but they are very inexpensive. Most, if not all have a fuel pressure test port on or near the fuel rail. You may have to google its location for your particular engine, but for Fords, it is usually very visible and it looks like a bicycle tire valve. I googled toyota, and it appears that theirs is not as easy as a Ford, and you may need a specialty connector hose. But for my Fords, I used a bicycle hand pump's hose, screwed it onto the test port connector, and easily/fairly quickly filled a one gallon container, multiple times. I couldn't get a larger container within reach of the relatively short hose, but connecting and disconnecting the jumper wire for the relay to the pump was as easy as flipping a switch on and off.

 

[Rick NJ]

This whole gel pack VS ice idea has me thinking, and having to look stuff up, to refresh what I learned in chemistry, back when Edison was inventing the light bulb hehe 🙂 .
...
...
Regarding camping, and using a cooler:
Perhaps a blend of both technologies may work well. Ideally, any foods that you plan to put in the cooler, you should bring to nearly freezing in the home refrigerator first.

Poppy, your description is great.. I too learned my Physics in ancient times, but since I majored in Physics, I kind of feel obligated to pipe in. So, if I may...

EDIT: Holy smoke! My physics left me. My initial reply here was incorrect.

Poppy gently reminded me "if I recall correctly, latent heat is about 0.1cal/gm" is wrong. It is around 80cal/gm. I came up with this way during a power out based on this incorrectly recalled figure, and I never went back to recheck. So, I deserve a kick in the bud, which I will go administer the punishment shortly.

I edited out the incorrect part so I don't suggest others doing dumb things as I did.

Thanks for the reminder! Poppy.

Rick

 

[BloodLust]

I can't remember where I read it but the squarish/blockich 1 gallon Crytal Geyser bottles stack well due to their shape. Even upright and side by side, they stick together and don't have dead air space so they act as a bigger block of ice.
Would be nice to put in a larger cooler when heading out.
I'm not sure how the bottle or cap will handle freezing. Seems ok though just judging by it's looks and material.
I'd like to test it but it's not available where I am. It's what I buy when I travel to the US and stay at hotels though but the hotel room refs won't have a freezer compartment big enough for it.
I just might check-in an empty one sometime and bring it across the world just to test it.

 

[Poppy]

Poppy, your description is great.. I too learned my Physics in ancient times, but since I majored in Physics, I kind of feel obligated to pipe in. So, if I may...

EDIT: Holy smoke! My physics left me. My initial reply here was incorrect.

<SNIP>

Thanks Rick!
Your initial response had a lot of good information in it, was well explained and was well thought out.
I look forward to your future posts. :thumbsup:

 

[rpm00]

Had a 4 hour power outage tonight due to a lighting strike in the area. Observations and lessons learned:
- need to get some kind of night lights for the kids rooms that run off batteries. I ended up just tail standing my SC62w and SC600 which worked ok, but would prefer something more dedicated to the task
- kids normally sleep with white noise MP3 playing... Need to get some little battery powered thing for this. They had trouble going down because of this. Maybe a little radio tuned to static would do the trick.
- my UPS that powers my NAS, router, wifi died after about an hour. Damn AGM batteries. Need something much better than that.
- caught in the evening with cell phones around 25% which wasn't good at all. I have three portable power banks so we were ok. But I feel exposed here.
- wife complained it was hot because the AC was out... Not sure I can do anything about that other than a full home genny. 😉

 

[bluemax_1]

- wife complained it was hot because the AC was out... Not sure I can do anything about that other than a full home genny. 😉

Several posts above (698 and 700), there were links to cooling towels and battery powered fans.


Max

 

[etc]

Several posts above (698 and 700), there were links to cooling towels and battery powered fans.


Max

4d Mag with low powered Nite-Ize module from Walmart.

Need to give away that miserable thing during the next power outage.

 

[Rick NJ]

Had a 4 hour power outage tonight due to a lighting strike in the area. Observations and lessons learned:
- need to get some kind of night lights for the kids rooms that run off batteries. I ended up just tail standing my SC62w and SC600 which worked ok, but would prefer something more dedicated to the task
- kids normally sleep with white noise MP3 playing... Need to get some little battery powered thing for this. They had trouble going down because of this. Maybe a little radio tuned to static would do the trick.
- my UPS that powers my NAS, router, wifi died after about an hour. Damn AGM batteries. Need something much better than that.
- caught in the evening with cell phones around 25% which wasn't good at all. I have three portable power banks so we were ok. But I feel exposed here.
- wife complained it was hot because the AC was out... Not sure I can do anything about that other than a full home genny. 😉

How about a small room air-conditioner? If you have a 2kw range generator, it should run a 15A-110Volt small room AC and you have a "retreat" place to get cool down for a bit.

 

[1DaveN]

Had a 4 hour power outage tonight due to a lighting strike in the area. Observations and lessons learned:
- need to get some kind of night lights for the kids rooms that run off batteries. I ended up just tail standing my SC62w and SC600 which worked ok, but would prefer something more dedicated to the task
- kids normally sleep with white noise MP3 playing... Need to get some little battery powered thing for this. They had trouble going down because of this. Maybe a little radio tuned to static would do the trick.
- my UPS that powers my NAS, router, wifi died after about an hour. Damn AGM batteries. Need something much better than that.
- caught in the evening with cell phones around 25% which wasn't good at all. I have three portable power banks so we were ok. But I feel exposed here.
- wife complained it was hot because the AC was out... Not sure I can do anything about that other than a full home genny. 😉

Opportunity knocks 🙂

This is your chance to try out a Fenix CL25R lantern, which at its lowest setting might make a great night light for the kids, while also being useful for many more functions in a power failure as well. And you might even have other lights that can share 18650's.

I've found a number of situations where power banks save the day (and they'll power the CL25R on its two lowest settings).

 

[Poppy]

Had a 4 hour power outage tonight due to a lighting strike in the area. Observations and lessons learned:
- need to get some kind of night lights for the kids rooms that run off batteries. I ended up just tail standing my SC62w and SC600 which worked ok, but would prefer something more dedicated to the task

Thank you for sharing your observations.

I have been a proponent of "auto-on" emergency lighting, I believe that I first suggested it here, and there was a bit of follow-up discussion of it.
I have a few that plug into an outlet, and have a light sensor so if the room is dark enough, it'll come on. If the power fails, they'll come on, but only if the room is dark enough. This saves the batteries when the outage occurs during the daylight hours. I'd like to suggest that you pick up that style for the rooms that it would be appropriate.

 

[Treeguy]

NM

Sorry.

 

[Treeguy]

Thank you for sharing your observations.I have been a proponent of "auto-on" emergency lighting, I believe that I first suggested it here, and there was a bit of follow-up discussion of it.I have a few that plug into an outlet, and have a light sensor so if the room is dark enough, it'll come on. If the power fails, they'll come on, but only if the room is dark enough. This saves the batteries when the outage occurs during the daylight hours. I'd like to suggest that you pick up that style for the rooms that it would be appropriate.

Hey Poppy, :wave:

Wanted to say hello, hope you are doing well, and mention I finally got my hands on a Rayovac indestructible lantern.

280 hours on low, which is bright enough to function with, but perhaps not read comfortably. And though the three bars/supports on the glass do interfere with the cleanliness of the light pattern, the lantern itself is a tank! Very heavy, very solid, it definitely has an "Ì`m here for ya!" attitude. I have a dozen Duracells for it and I think that takes care of my portable house lighting come storm time.

No more tail standing my flashlights. 🙂

 

[Poppy]

Hey Poppy, :wave:

Wanted to say hello, hope you are doing well, and mention I finally got my hands on a Rayovac indestructible lantern.

Hi Treeguy! :wave:

I'm glad to see that you finally got one of those lanterns. If you find that you want to run it on high, then you may want to look into some Tenergy NiMH D cells. I saw one review that stated average battery life is only five hours.

I think that you'll still be tail standing some of your Indestructible 2AA lights. 😗 I guess time will tell, eh?

 

[sidecross]

The idea of having no power should be considered for beyond just a few days. If your power will be out for more than 7 to 10 days the quantity of batteries is no longer a good solution. You must consider what your needs will be and try to supply those needs with the simplest solar solution that fits your budget.