Powerful Lasers = Time Machine
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Harrkev
Enlightened
There was a move a couple of years ago about a time machine..
AFAIK, there is only one way to make one, and that would require traveling to the center of the galaxy and dragging black holes around. Hardly a weekend project. And even that is just speculation. It probably would not work in any event.
Some people even think that time travel is impossible (including me). I have seen no real theories on how/why time exists and how it works.
AFAIK, there is only one way to make one, and that would require traveling to the center of the galaxy and dragging black holes around. Hardly a weekend project. And even that is just speculation. It probably would not work in any event.
Some people even think that time travel is impossible (including me). I have seen no real theories on how/why time exists and how it works.
jtice
Flashaholic
They are planning to send information back in time soon.
All you have to do is, pass the information through a tunnel of light,,, sence the data that in embedded in the light, is moving MUCH faster than you are, your time is going fater than the datas time,,, therefor, its sorta going back in time. Relative to you.
"Time Travel" is completely possible, and things do it all the time.
The shuttle crew does it every time they launch into space.
Their relative time is about .002 seconds behind our time when they return.
Remember, time is relative, just like speed. Thats what comes into play here.
All you have to do is, pass the information through a tunnel of light,,, sence the data that in embedded in the light, is moving MUCH faster than you are, your time is going fater than the datas time,,, therefor, its sorta going back in time. Relative to you.
"Time Travel" is completely possible, and things do it all the time.
The shuttle crew does it every time they launch into space.
Their relative time is about .002 seconds behind our time when they return.
Remember, time is relative, just like speed. Thats what comes into play here.
Nitro
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2004
- Messages
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The documentary I saw was about building a matrix of powerful lasers. They will then send a particle through, and it will disappear. Only to re-appear days before. So that would mean as soon as they turn this thing on, particles would start appearing out of nowhere, particles that have not been sent back yet. Cool!
Sounds far fetched, but they are spending big $$$ to build this thing, so they must have a pretty good theory to back it up.
Sounds far fetched, but they are spending big $$$ to build this thing, so they must have a pretty good theory to back it up.
jtice
Flashaholic
Lewis,
That sounds alot like what i saw.
As long as the machine is on,,, from that point in time on, they can be things popping up from nowhere from the past... ah future,, ah,,, sometime. lol
That sounds alot like what i saw.
As long as the machine is on,,, from that point in time on, they can be things popping up from nowhere from the past... ah future,, ah,,, sometime. lol
jtice
Flashaholic
Heres a simple explaination of how speed effects time.
Lets say you have a twin brother, that is the exact same age as you.
You stay here on Earth, while your twin brother gets on a spaceship, and flys around in space at almost the speed of light.
Lets say 10 years go by here on Earth, and then the twin brother returns.
You will be 10 years older, he will alot less older.
I forget the figure, but its something wild, like he will obly be 1 year older, vs. your 10 years.
Lets say you have a twin brother, that is the exact same age as you.
You stay here on Earth, while your twin brother gets on a spaceship, and flys around in space at almost the speed of light.
Lets say 10 years go by here on Earth, and then the twin brother returns.
You will be 10 years older, he will alot less older.
I forget the figure, but its something wild, like he will obly be 1 year older, vs. your 10 years.
Al_Havemann
Enlightened
Probably won’t ever work.. The only methods proposed that didn’t violate know physical laws either apply at the quantum level or require exotic matter, which has never been detected and almost certainly can’t exist at the macro level.
There was a method described by Fred Hoyle using a huge spinning cylinder that turned at just below the speed of light that would create a “hole” so to speak in either space or time. Entering this hole at differing speeds and angles produced different shifts in space and/or time, depending. Trouble is (there’s always trouble when playing at this), is that the matter needed to hold together a cylinder spinning at those speeds can’t exist.
At the quantum level, it seems likely that quanta can move about some in time not because they are time travelers as such but more because at that level time has less meaning in the absolute sense. Exact time to quanta is somewhat indeterminate as is position because a quanta can move to a different place without traveling through the intervening distance. One of those funny things that can happen at the micro level, like action at a distance.
There’s always a “gotcha” with this stuff.
Al
There was a method described by Fred Hoyle using a huge spinning cylinder that turned at just below the speed of light that would create a “hole” so to speak in either space or time. Entering this hole at differing speeds and angles produced different shifts in space and/or time, depending. Trouble is (there’s always trouble when playing at this), is that the matter needed to hold together a cylinder spinning at those speeds can’t exist.
At the quantum level, it seems likely that quanta can move about some in time not because they are time travelers as such but more because at that level time has less meaning in the absolute sense. Exact time to quanta is somewhat indeterminate as is position because a quanta can move to a different place without traveling through the intervening distance. One of those funny things that can happen at the micro level, like action at a distance.
There’s always a “gotcha” with this stuff.
Al
TrevorNasko
Flashlight Enthusiast
its possible- didnt superman do it in that movie ? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
IlluminatingBikr
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2003
- Messages
- 2,320
Ticey, I don't get what your saying.
Time goes by at the same rate, no matter what your speed. If I'm going at 100 mph or 100,000 mph, it's still miles per hour or a unit rate of time. It's the miles per hour that change. If that hour changed too....why have such a unit?
Time goes by at the same rate, no matter what your speed. If I'm going at 100 mph or 100,000 mph, it's still miles per hour or a unit rate of time. It's the miles per hour that change. If that hour changed too....why have such a unit?
dw_1984
Newly Enlightened
Einstein's theory of special relativity = time slows as object approaches speed of light...since the space shuttle is moving at an extremely fast rate around the earth...they would age at a slower rate. I think this is what jtice is talking about.
Harrkev
Enlightened
There is a HUGE difference in relativistic time effects (time dilation) and traveling backwards in time. First, the "twins" paradox just slows time down, but CANNOT reverse it.
Second, nobody knows why time flows in the direction that it does. Both quantum and classical physics work equally well in either direction. Why don't we remember the future instead of the past? Nobody can explain this. Most theorists tend to use the increasing of entropy as being the "one-way" sign down the road of time, but I find this to be an unsatisfactory explanation. It has also been speculated that quantum exchanges are actually mediated bya pair of photons -- one going forward in time, and another going backwards in time. This would explain the "spooky action at a distace" that bothered Einstein in the Copenhagen quantum interpretation. I find the Copenhagen interpretation unsatisfying from an aesthetic sense, also. But if the "backward time" photon WERE a correct interpretation, it would still not be useful for sending actual information backwards in time.
Third, if time travel WERE possible, even to the extent of a little bit of information, that would be bad for society. All of a sudden high-energy physicists would be winning every lottery, winning at the stock market, and patenting inventions before the real inventor invents them. Did anybody see the movie "paycheck?"
Fourth, time travel opens up all sorts of paradoxes that make the universe illogical. Note that the "Twins Paradox" is NOT a paradox -- just counterintuitive.
Second, nobody knows why time flows in the direction that it does. Both quantum and classical physics work equally well in either direction. Why don't we remember the future instead of the past? Nobody can explain this. Most theorists tend to use the increasing of entropy as being the "one-way" sign down the road of time, but I find this to be an unsatisfactory explanation. It has also been speculated that quantum exchanges are actually mediated bya pair of photons -- one going forward in time, and another going backwards in time. This would explain the "spooky action at a distace" that bothered Einstein in the Copenhagen quantum interpretation. I find the Copenhagen interpretation unsatisfying from an aesthetic sense, also. But if the "backward time" photon WERE a correct interpretation, it would still not be useful for sending actual information backwards in time.
Third, if time travel WERE possible, even to the extent of a little bit of information, that would be bad for society. All of a sudden high-energy physicists would be winning every lottery, winning at the stock market, and patenting inventions before the real inventor invents them. Did anybody see the movie "paycheck?"
Fourth, time travel opens up all sorts of paradoxes that make the universe illogical. Note that the "Twins Paradox" is NOT a paradox -- just counterintuitive.
jtice
Flashaholic
Illy,
I think Harrkev summed it up well.
Time is RELATIVE.
So, the twin on earth, would have his same hour, but, it would feel like minutes to the twin flying in space,
Its hard to explain in words, especially typed words. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif
Just remember that time is not the same for everyone, and everything. It is relative.
Speed is also relative, so think of it that way. If you are in a car going 60 mph,,, thats 60 mph RELATIVE TO THE EARTH.
If you were in the middle of no where in space, what would you use as a reference to gauge your speed?
On earth, that car is moving 60 mph relative to earth. That means nothing in terms of its speed, if you were looking at that car on earth, from space,,, becuase the earth itself is also moving. So, now, that car can be moving at 100,000 mph,,,relative to say,,, the Sun.
I think Harrkev summed it up well.
Time is RELATIVE.
So, the twin on earth, would have his same hour, but, it would feel like minutes to the twin flying in space,
Its hard to explain in words, especially typed words. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif
Just remember that time is not the same for everyone, and everything. It is relative.
Speed is also relative, so think of it that way. If you are in a car going 60 mph,,, thats 60 mph RELATIVE TO THE EARTH.
If you were in the middle of no where in space, what would you use as a reference to gauge your speed?
On earth, that car is moving 60 mph relative to earth. That means nothing in terms of its speed, if you were looking at that car on earth, from space,,, becuase the earth itself is also moving. So, now, that car can be moving at 100,000 mph,,,relative to say,,, the Sun.
PeterW
Enlightened
Need General Relativity for the twin paradox as there are accelerations going on which mess things up. I've never been sure if the paradox is one at all.
Anyway no one has got anything funny from the lasers we have at the moment, including the petawatt laser... so I doubt they will start anytime soon, though I wouldn't mind playing with such a laser! Really powerful lasers are either used for fusion research (pulsed) or cutting and destroying things (CW).
Cheers
PEterW
Anyway no one has got anything funny from the lasers we have at the moment, including the petawatt laser... so I doubt they will start anytime soon, though I wouldn't mind playing with such a laser! Really powerful lasers are either used for fusion research (pulsed) or cutting and destroying things (CW).
Cheers
PEterW
Nitro
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2004
- Messages
- 1,347
[ QUOTE ]
Harrkev said:
There is a HUGE difference in relativistic time effects (time dilation) and traveling backwards in time. First, the "twins" paradox just slows time down, but CANNOT reverse it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't believe the Laser Time Machine works on the principle of relativistic time effects in a sense. I believe it works on the principle of warping gravity(space). However, you could say they are related. No pun.
[ QUOTE ]
Second, nobody knows why time flows in the direction that it does. Both quantum and classical physics work equally well in either direction. Why don't we remember the future instead of the past? Nobody can explain this. Most theorists tend to use the increasing of entropy as being the "one-way" sign down the road of time, but I find this to be an unsatisfactory explanation. It has also been speculated that quantum exchanges are actually mediated bya pair of photons -- one going forward in time, and another going backwards in time. This would explain the "spooky action at a distace" that bothered Einstein in the Copenhagen quantum interpretation. I find the Copenhagen interpretation unsatisfying from an aesthetic sense, also. But if the "backward time" photon WERE a correct interpretation, it would still not be useful for sending actual information backwards in time.
[/ QUOTE ]
This experiment does not allow time to reverse direction, it simply allows a particle to "Jump" to another Space/Time, if you get my meaning. Einstein himself saw the possibility according to his own theories, but didn't believe it.
[ QUOTE ]
Third, if time travel WERE possible, even to the extent of a little bit of information, that would be bad for society. All of a sudden high-energy physicists would be winning every lottery, winning at the stock market, and patenting inventions before the real inventor invents them. Did anybody see the movie "paycheck?"
[/ QUOTE ]
Just because it would be bad for society doesn't mean it couldn't happen. An asteroid hitting the earth would be bad for society also.
[ QUOTE ]
Fourth, time travel opens up all sorts of paradoxes that make the universe illogical. Note that the "Twins Paradox" is NOT a paradox -- just counterintuitive.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't believe it would open up any more paradoxes that already don't exist. The reason is, if you were to jump back in time and do something "paradoxal", it would become the truth. In other words you would be entering another universe that's similar, but slightly different.
Harrkev said:
There is a HUGE difference in relativistic time effects (time dilation) and traveling backwards in time. First, the "twins" paradox just slows time down, but CANNOT reverse it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't believe the Laser Time Machine works on the principle of relativistic time effects in a sense. I believe it works on the principle of warping gravity(space). However, you could say they are related. No pun.
[ QUOTE ]
Second, nobody knows why time flows in the direction that it does. Both quantum and classical physics work equally well in either direction. Why don't we remember the future instead of the past? Nobody can explain this. Most theorists tend to use the increasing of entropy as being the "one-way" sign down the road of time, but I find this to be an unsatisfactory explanation. It has also been speculated that quantum exchanges are actually mediated bya pair of photons -- one going forward in time, and another going backwards in time. This would explain the "spooky action at a distace" that bothered Einstein in the Copenhagen quantum interpretation. I find the Copenhagen interpretation unsatisfying from an aesthetic sense, also. But if the "backward time" photon WERE a correct interpretation, it would still not be useful for sending actual information backwards in time.
[/ QUOTE ]
This experiment does not allow time to reverse direction, it simply allows a particle to "Jump" to another Space/Time, if you get my meaning. Einstein himself saw the possibility according to his own theories, but didn't believe it.
[ QUOTE ]
Third, if time travel WERE possible, even to the extent of a little bit of information, that would be bad for society. All of a sudden high-energy physicists would be winning every lottery, winning at the stock market, and patenting inventions before the real inventor invents them. Did anybody see the movie "paycheck?"
[/ QUOTE ]
Just because it would be bad for society doesn't mean it couldn't happen. An asteroid hitting the earth would be bad for society also.
[ QUOTE ]
Fourth, time travel opens up all sorts of paradoxes that make the universe illogical. Note that the "Twins Paradox" is NOT a paradox -- just counterintuitive.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't believe it would open up any more paradoxes that already don't exist. The reason is, if you were to jump back in time and do something "paradoxal", it would become the truth. In other words you would be entering another universe that's similar, but slightly different.
Harrkev
Enlightened
[ QUOTE ]
Nitro said:
I don't believe the Laser Time Machine works on the principle of relativistic time effects in a sense. I believe it works on the principle of warping gravity(space). However, you could say they are related. No pun.
[/ QUOTE ]
AFAIK, the only thing that can warp time and space is matter and/or energy (matter and energy are equivalent according to relativity). But a little matter is the same as a LOT of energy (hence nuclear weapons). So to pack energy so that it results in a density greater than that of lead or uranium would be difficult. And once the matter or energy density gets too large, a black hole is the only result, as I recall. I doubt that it is even possible to make a black hole in the lab. And if it was possible, I don't want anybody doing it.
[ QUOTE ]
Nitro said:
This experiment does not allow time to reverse direction, it simply allows a particle to "Jump" to another Space/Time, if you get my meaning. Einstein himself saw the possibility according to his own theories, but didn't believe it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Could you elaborate on this? IIRC, travel backwards in time is only possible when traveling greater than the speed of light.
I should note that traveling greater than the speed of light is NOT impossible. Only breaking the speed of light is. If you start off faster than light, then it would be impossible to slow yourself down to slower than light. The speed of light is like the great wall of China. If you start on one side, you will remain there forever, as it would take infinite energy to get to the other side. Of course if there is nothing that goes faster right now, then there is no way to put anything "over the wall" to make something that goes faster.
The "tachyon" is the mythical particle which goes faster than light and goes backwards in time. These particles are more of a curiosity. Nobody knows if they exist, or what their properites would be if they did exist. I consider this to be of the "how many faries could dance on the head of a pin" type question.
[ QUOTE ]
Nitro said:
I don't believe it would open up any more paradoxes that already don't exist. The reason is, if you were to jump back in time and do something "paradoxal", it would become the truth. In other words you would be entering another universe that's similar, but slightly different.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is, of course, assume that there are multiple universes. It certainly does make for some good sci-fi, though. But there is not a shred of evidence that there are multiple universes.
The reason that multiple universes were ever proposed (I think) is that in the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum theory, the universe makes a "decision" whenever a wave function is collapsed (think Schroedinger's cat). Some have theorized that the universe "bifucates" (splits) everytime one of these decisions is made. The problem is that this is pure unprovable poppycock.
One of the problems with quantum theory is that the math that describes it is very exact. The math works, and we understand the rules fairly well (but the math is VERY complicated for anything but the most trivial of cases). But the math can be confusing, so people try to link the math with this thing called "English" (or "French," "German," etc.). There is no direct coorelation between the math and natural languages. The math describes exactly what we will observe. However, people try to explain why things happen, rather than just be happy that they can predict exactly what will happen. The problem is that there is, right now, no way to really differentiate between the various explanations of what we are seeing.
So, when a wave function collapses, are there photons going forward and backward in time, or is there spooky action at a distance? We simply cannot devise an experiment to determine the truth because the experiment itself will be made of atoms and particles which will interfere with the experiment. The experimentor becomes part of the experiment. So this type of information is hidden from us, and I suspect that it always will be.
But, lets get back to the "multiple universe" hypothesis. Let's assume that there are multiple universes. How many are there? Two? Three? Twelve? Since you want to go back in time to another universe, supposedly one that looks very much like our current universe, but one day younger, I would like to point out that there have been a LOT of days since the universe began. If you could travel back only one second in time, then you could do this 10,000,000 times. Which imples that there muse be at least 10,000,000 universes. Using this logic, you can see that there is an infinite number of universes, and now travel between them it possible.
Remember the infinite moneys with typewriters theory? Well, if you have an infinite number of universes and travel between them is possible, certainly there would be a sizable number of them with hostile alien species intent on taking over all universes. While I, for one, would welcome our new alien overlords, I have not seen any. Which imples that there are NOT multiple universes with free travel between them.
So, in short, I remain unconvinced.
PS: I do not think that any scientific paradoxes exist now. If you can name some, I would be interested in hearing about them.
Se let's do some more beating here! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dedhorse.gif
Nitro said:
I don't believe the Laser Time Machine works on the principle of relativistic time effects in a sense. I believe it works on the principle of warping gravity(space). However, you could say they are related. No pun.
[/ QUOTE ]
AFAIK, the only thing that can warp time and space is matter and/or energy (matter and energy are equivalent according to relativity). But a little matter is the same as a LOT of energy (hence nuclear weapons). So to pack energy so that it results in a density greater than that of lead or uranium would be difficult. And once the matter or energy density gets too large, a black hole is the only result, as I recall. I doubt that it is even possible to make a black hole in the lab. And if it was possible, I don't want anybody doing it.
[ QUOTE ]
Nitro said:
This experiment does not allow time to reverse direction, it simply allows a particle to "Jump" to another Space/Time, if you get my meaning. Einstein himself saw the possibility according to his own theories, but didn't believe it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Could you elaborate on this? IIRC, travel backwards in time is only possible when traveling greater than the speed of light.
I should note that traveling greater than the speed of light is NOT impossible. Only breaking the speed of light is. If you start off faster than light, then it would be impossible to slow yourself down to slower than light. The speed of light is like the great wall of China. If you start on one side, you will remain there forever, as it would take infinite energy to get to the other side. Of course if there is nothing that goes faster right now, then there is no way to put anything "over the wall" to make something that goes faster.
The "tachyon" is the mythical particle which goes faster than light and goes backwards in time. These particles are more of a curiosity. Nobody knows if they exist, or what their properites would be if they did exist. I consider this to be of the "how many faries could dance on the head of a pin" type question.
[ QUOTE ]
Nitro said:
I don't believe it would open up any more paradoxes that already don't exist. The reason is, if you were to jump back in time and do something "paradoxal", it would become the truth. In other words you would be entering another universe that's similar, but slightly different.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is, of course, assume that there are multiple universes. It certainly does make for some good sci-fi, though. But there is not a shred of evidence that there are multiple universes.
The reason that multiple universes were ever proposed (I think) is that in the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum theory, the universe makes a "decision" whenever a wave function is collapsed (think Schroedinger's cat). Some have theorized that the universe "bifucates" (splits) everytime one of these decisions is made. The problem is that this is pure unprovable poppycock.
One of the problems with quantum theory is that the math that describes it is very exact. The math works, and we understand the rules fairly well (but the math is VERY complicated for anything but the most trivial of cases). But the math can be confusing, so people try to link the math with this thing called "English" (or "French," "German," etc.). There is no direct coorelation between the math and natural languages. The math describes exactly what we will observe. However, people try to explain why things happen, rather than just be happy that they can predict exactly what will happen. The problem is that there is, right now, no way to really differentiate between the various explanations of what we are seeing.
So, when a wave function collapses, are there photons going forward and backward in time, or is there spooky action at a distance? We simply cannot devise an experiment to determine the truth because the experiment itself will be made of atoms and particles which will interfere with the experiment. The experimentor becomes part of the experiment. So this type of information is hidden from us, and I suspect that it always will be.
But, lets get back to the "multiple universe" hypothesis. Let's assume that there are multiple universes. How many are there? Two? Three? Twelve? Since you want to go back in time to another universe, supposedly one that looks very much like our current universe, but one day younger, I would like to point out that there have been a LOT of days since the universe began. If you could travel back only one second in time, then you could do this 10,000,000 times. Which imples that there muse be at least 10,000,000 universes. Using this logic, you can see that there is an infinite number of universes, and now travel between them it possible.
Remember the infinite moneys with typewriters theory? Well, if you have an infinite number of universes and travel between them is possible, certainly there would be a sizable number of them with hostile alien species intent on taking over all universes. While I, for one, would welcome our new alien overlords, I have not seen any. Which imples that there are NOT multiple universes with free travel between them.
So, in short, I remain unconvinced.
PS: I do not think that any scientific paradoxes exist now. If you can name some, I would be interested in hearing about them.
Se let's do some more beating here! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dedhorse.gif
Nitro
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2004
- Messages
- 1,347
[ QUOTE ]
Harrkev said:
[ QUOTE ]
Nitro said:
I don't believe the Laser Time Machine works on the principle of relativistic time effects in a sense. I believe it works on the principle of warping gravity(space). However, you could say they are related. No pun.
[/ QUOTE ]
AFAIK, the only thing that can warp time and space is matter and/or energy (matter and energy are equivalent according to relativity). But a little matter is the same as a LOT of energy (hence nuclear weapons). So to pack energy so that it results in a density greater than that of lead or uranium would be difficult. And once the matter or energy density gets too large, a black hole is the only result, as I recall. I doubt that it is even possible to make a black hole in the lab. And if it was possible, I don't want anybody doing it.
[ QUOTE ]
Nitro said:
This experiment does not allow time to reverse direction, it simply allows a particle to "Jump" to another Space/Time, if you get my meaning. Einstein himself saw the possibility according to his own theories, but didn't believe it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Could you elaborate on this? IIRC, travel backwards in time is only possible when traveling greater than the speed of light.
[/ QUOTE ]
The THEORY is, the lasers will "Twist" space in such a way that it will create a closed loop in time.
I don't claim to be an expert on this subject, so I'll let you read about a person who is.
http://www.advance.uconn.edu/2001/010910/01091012.htm
[ QUOTE ]
I should note that traveling greater than the speed of light is NOT impossible. Only breaking the speed of light is. If you start off faster than light, then it would be impossible to slow yourself down to slower than light. The speed of light is like the great wall of China. If you start on one side, you will remain there forever, as it would take infinite energy to get to the other side. Of course if there is nothing that goes faster right now, then there is no way to put anything "over the wall" to make something that goes faster.
The "tachyon" is the mythical particle which goes faster than light and goes backwards in time. These particles are more of a curiosity. Nobody knows if they exist, or what their properites would be if they did exist. I consider this to be of the "how many faries could dance on the head of a pin" type question.
[ QUOTE ]
Nitro said:
I don't believe it would open up any more paradoxes that already don't exist. The reason is, if you were to jump back in time and do something "paradoxal", it would become the truth. In other words you would be entering another universe that's similar, but slightly different.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is, of course, assume that there are multiple universes. It certainly does make for some good sci-fi, though. But there is not a shred of evidence that there are multiple universes.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are correct, there is no evidence that there are multiple universes. However, there is also no "Evidence" of the existence of "Black Holes"
[ QUOTE ]
The reason that multiple universes were ever proposed (I think) is that in the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum theory, the universe makes a "decision" whenever a wave function is collapsed (think Schroedinger's cat). Some have theorized that the universe "bifucates" (splits) everytime one of these decisions is made. The problem is that this is pure unprovable poppycock.
One of the problems with quantum theory is that the math that describes it is very exact. The math works, and we understand the rules fairly well (but the math is VERY complicated for anything but the most trivial of cases). But the math can be confusing, so people try to link the math with this thing called "English" (or "French," "German," etc.). There is no direct coorelation between the math and natural languages. The math describes exactly what we will observe. However, people try to explain why things happen, rather than just be happy that they can predict exactly what will happen. The problem is that there is, right now, no way to really differentiate between the various explanations of what we are seeing.
So, when a wave function collapses, are there photons going forward and backward in time, or is there spooky action at a distance? We simply cannot devise an experiment to determine the truth because the experiment itself will be made of atoms and particles which will interfere with the experiment. The experimentor becomes part of the experiment. So this type of information is hidden from us, and I suspect that it always will be.
But, lets get back to the "multiple universe" hypothesis. Let's assume that there are multiple universes. How many are there? Two? Three? Twelve? Since you want to go back in time to another universe, supposedly one that looks very much like our current universe, but one day younger, I would like to point out that there have been a LOT of days since the universe began. If you could travel back only one second in time, then you could do this 10,000,000 times. Which imples that there muse be at least 10,000,000 universes. Using this logic, you can see that there is an infinite number of universes, and now travel between them it possible.
Remember the infinite moneys with typewriters theory? Well, if you have an infinite number of universes and travel between them is possible, certainly there would be a sizable number of them with hostile alien species intent on taking over all universes. While I, for one, would welcome our new alien overlords, I have not seen any. Which imples that there are NOT multiple universes with free travel between them.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just because YOU haven't seen any doesn't mean they don't exist. I'll revert back to Black Holes, unless you have been to the center of our galaxy.
[ QUOTE ]
So, in short, I remain unconvinced.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not now, nor was I ever trying to convince you of the existence of closed loops in time. I just brought up an interesting documentary about Time Travel and Lasers that I saw on TV.
[ QUOTE ]
PS: I do not think that any scientific paradoxes exist now. If you can name some, I would be interested in hearing about them.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sit in a chair in the middle of a room. Stand up and walk to the door, only by taking a step half the distance to the door. How many steps will in take to get to the door? Simple, Infinity. But, how long will it take you to get to the door?
[ QUOTE ]
Se let's do some more beating here! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dedhorse.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
So who's beating the horse?
Harrkev said:
[ QUOTE ]
Nitro said:
I don't believe the Laser Time Machine works on the principle of relativistic time effects in a sense. I believe it works on the principle of warping gravity(space). However, you could say they are related. No pun.
[/ QUOTE ]
AFAIK, the only thing that can warp time and space is matter and/or energy (matter and energy are equivalent according to relativity). But a little matter is the same as a LOT of energy (hence nuclear weapons). So to pack energy so that it results in a density greater than that of lead or uranium would be difficult. And once the matter or energy density gets too large, a black hole is the only result, as I recall. I doubt that it is even possible to make a black hole in the lab. And if it was possible, I don't want anybody doing it.
[ QUOTE ]
Nitro said:
This experiment does not allow time to reverse direction, it simply allows a particle to "Jump" to another Space/Time, if you get my meaning. Einstein himself saw the possibility according to his own theories, but didn't believe it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Could you elaborate on this? IIRC, travel backwards in time is only possible when traveling greater than the speed of light.
[/ QUOTE ]
The THEORY is, the lasers will "Twist" space in such a way that it will create a closed loop in time.
I don't claim to be an expert on this subject, so I'll let you read about a person who is.
http://www.advance.uconn.edu/2001/010910/01091012.htm
[ QUOTE ]
I should note that traveling greater than the speed of light is NOT impossible. Only breaking the speed of light is. If you start off faster than light, then it would be impossible to slow yourself down to slower than light. The speed of light is like the great wall of China. If you start on one side, you will remain there forever, as it would take infinite energy to get to the other side. Of course if there is nothing that goes faster right now, then there is no way to put anything "over the wall" to make something that goes faster.
The "tachyon" is the mythical particle which goes faster than light and goes backwards in time. These particles are more of a curiosity. Nobody knows if they exist, or what their properites would be if they did exist. I consider this to be of the "how many faries could dance on the head of a pin" type question.
[ QUOTE ]
Nitro said:
I don't believe it would open up any more paradoxes that already don't exist. The reason is, if you were to jump back in time and do something "paradoxal", it would become the truth. In other words you would be entering another universe that's similar, but slightly different.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is, of course, assume that there are multiple universes. It certainly does make for some good sci-fi, though. But there is not a shred of evidence that there are multiple universes.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are correct, there is no evidence that there are multiple universes. However, there is also no "Evidence" of the existence of "Black Holes"
[ QUOTE ]
The reason that multiple universes were ever proposed (I think) is that in the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum theory, the universe makes a "decision" whenever a wave function is collapsed (think Schroedinger's cat). Some have theorized that the universe "bifucates" (splits) everytime one of these decisions is made. The problem is that this is pure unprovable poppycock.
One of the problems with quantum theory is that the math that describes it is very exact. The math works, and we understand the rules fairly well (but the math is VERY complicated for anything but the most trivial of cases). But the math can be confusing, so people try to link the math with this thing called "English" (or "French," "German," etc.). There is no direct coorelation between the math and natural languages. The math describes exactly what we will observe. However, people try to explain why things happen, rather than just be happy that they can predict exactly what will happen. The problem is that there is, right now, no way to really differentiate between the various explanations of what we are seeing.
So, when a wave function collapses, are there photons going forward and backward in time, or is there spooky action at a distance? We simply cannot devise an experiment to determine the truth because the experiment itself will be made of atoms and particles which will interfere with the experiment. The experimentor becomes part of the experiment. So this type of information is hidden from us, and I suspect that it always will be.
But, lets get back to the "multiple universe" hypothesis. Let's assume that there are multiple universes. How many are there? Two? Three? Twelve? Since you want to go back in time to another universe, supposedly one that looks very much like our current universe, but one day younger, I would like to point out that there have been a LOT of days since the universe began. If you could travel back only one second in time, then you could do this 10,000,000 times. Which imples that there muse be at least 10,000,000 universes. Using this logic, you can see that there is an infinite number of universes, and now travel between them it possible.
Remember the infinite moneys with typewriters theory? Well, if you have an infinite number of universes and travel between them is possible, certainly there would be a sizable number of them with hostile alien species intent on taking over all universes. While I, for one, would welcome our new alien overlords, I have not seen any. Which imples that there are NOT multiple universes with free travel between them.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just because YOU haven't seen any doesn't mean they don't exist. I'll revert back to Black Holes, unless you have been to the center of our galaxy.
[ QUOTE ]
So, in short, I remain unconvinced.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not now, nor was I ever trying to convince you of the existence of closed loops in time. I just brought up an interesting documentary about Time Travel and Lasers that I saw on TV.
[ QUOTE ]
PS: I do not think that any scientific paradoxes exist now. If you can name some, I would be interested in hearing about them.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sit in a chair in the middle of a room. Stand up and walk to the door, only by taking a step half the distance to the door. How many steps will in take to get to the door? Simple, Infinity. But, how long will it take you to get to the door?
[ QUOTE ]
Se let's do some more beating here! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dedhorse.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
So who's beating the horse?
Zelandeth
Flashlight Enthusiast
Well, the only time travel/rate alteration thing I can remember about absolutley for certain was from a documentary I saw a year or so ago.
Two extremely accurate clocks were syncronised - one was left at base, the other was put aboard a plane, and carried around at some supersonic velocoty for a fair while - then the readins were compared. And low and behold, the clock which had been moving was running slow.
Granted, as I remember it, the time differential was in either picoseconds or femtoseconds, but it was there! As I remember, they repeated it with the clocks the other way around afterward, and had the same result.
Two extremely accurate clocks were syncronised - one was left at base, the other was put aboard a plane, and carried around at some supersonic velocoty for a fair while - then the readins were compared. And low and behold, the clock which had been moving was running slow.
Granted, as I remember it, the time differential was in either picoseconds or femtoseconds, but it was there! As I remember, they repeated it with the clocks the other way around afterward, and had the same result.
Justintoxicated
Flashlight Enthusiast
It is both possible and Impossible. Time as we know it is make believe. There is actually no such thing as time. However time as a concept is there, but people don't really realize that as we know it time is only somethign made up. As was said by someone else it is relative, and in more than one way.
The only tiem travel I see happenening is going into the future, but you cannot go back...
The only tiem travel I see happenening is going into the future, but you cannot go back...
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