Prayers for all those in the fire areas in CA...STAY SAFE

Lightraven

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My parents live about a mile from Montecito.

I just sent an e-mail to see what's up, but I'd bet they may have had to evacuate. They live just up the hill from the infamous APS traffic circle.
 

shadowbuds

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My thoughts and prayers to all in harms way in the CA fire areas. Everyone stay safe.

fieldops

We appreciate it... My brothers home just burned down... with his lambo in it. The horrible part is NOT ONE SINGLE firefighter OR police officer came to check up on the neighborhood he was in. He was sleeping and everyone in the world was calling him but his lazy *ss didn't want to pick it up. Around 12ish I would say he finally woke up and listened to his messages.

After walking outside he decided it was time. He started packing stuff into his truck and when he finally saw flames in his back yard he told his neighbors. His neighbors were clueless, he had to honk his horn so the whole neighborhood would come out side and see all the smoke...

Moral of the story, don't trust police, firefighters or the government to help you out when you really need it. He would be dead right now if we had not continued to call him because of the horribly poor execution of the way firefighters and police handled the situation. BTW, he has a fire station 1 block away from his house...

Good luck everyone.
 

IlluminatingBikr

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We appreciate it... My brothers home just burned down... with his lambo in it. The horrible part is NOT ONE SINGLE firefighter OR police officer came to check up on the neighborhood he was in. He was sleeping and everyone in the world was calling him but his lazy *ss didn't want to pick it up. Around 12ish I would say he finally woke up and listened to his messages.

After walking outside he decided it was time. He started packing stuff into his truck and when he finally saw flames in his back yard he told his neighbors. His neighbors were clueless, he had to honk his horn so the whole neighborhood would come out side and see all the smoke...

Moral of the story, don't trust police, firefighters or the government to help you out when you really need it. He would be dead right now if we had not continued to call him because of the horribly poor execution of the way firefighters and police handled the situation. BTW, he has a fire station 1 block away from his house...

Good luck everyone.


That's a scary story....and there are definitely some lessons to be learned from it.
 

kramer5150

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All of California is under some strange heat-wave. Here in San Jose its been near 80 deg-F for the past couple days.... unseasonably hot for this time of year.

My prayers go out to all the southern cal CPF'ers. Stay safe everyone and god bless. Hopefully our friends at Surefire are all OK, and Fountain Valley is far enough south of Anaheim.
 
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Lightraven

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Dad was under mandatory evacuation, but decided to hide out from authorities while monitoring the weather--he was a Navy weatherman for a carrier battlegroup in the Korean war, a pilot and Transpac yacht racer so he knows weather. I'm not sure he knows fire, though. Guards were posted on streets to prevent reentry.

He says the evacuation went too far in one direction, while not going far enough in the other. The fire burned over the top of a small college campus, and the people there had to shelter in place.

My dad's father-in-law fought flames in the same house decades ago from the roof. I guess my dad decided he needed to do the same in front of the wife.
 

Samuel

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...horribly poor execution of the way firefighters and police handled the situation. BTW, he has a fire station 1 block away from his house...

I'm 100% SURE that ALL the fire and police personnel were just sitting around somewhere far away doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to help... :rolleyes:

Thanks fieldops.
 

Lightraven

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After nearly being burned alive, I understand emotions would be running high.

My dad describes reverse 911 calls, cars with loudspeakers, roving patrols, and house-to-house warnings. He had to hide from them to avoid being arrested and pulled out of his house. So, the authorities were working hard. However, as my dad wrote, they incorrectly predicted the winds and the direction of the fire and evacuated the wrong areas.

Sometimes, the government can help people, other times, for any number of reasons, it cannot. It is always best to rely on caution, intelligence and preparation. The government should be the savior of last resort.
 

Samuel

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I totally agree with being as self-sufficient as you can and not relying on others. I definitely advise against sitting around and doing nothing when waiting for others to come to your rescue puts you at greater risk.

For those critical of public safety personnel - how much time have you served as a firefighter or police officer? How many large scale events have you had to handle or participate in? ETC. Walk a mile, come down from your ivory tower, whatever.

1st, there really isn't enough public safety personnel on a regular basis - we're stretched thin. A large scale event or major incident makes the lack of manpower and resources that much more evident. I've worked a few major fires now. Just because you don't see me doesn't mean I'm not working my *** off somewhere else! A couple of times, partners and I have almost been caught by fire while trying to expedite evacuation of endangered areas.

Massive fires can be very tricky. They can shift directly extremely quickly. They can hop over incredibly large areas and start new burns without warning. A sudden change in weather conditions can make it impossible to fight. Etc. Last couple of fires, I saw personnel from Northern California to San Diego area respond.

Destruction by fire is a terrible loss and I sympathize. No matter how rich/poor you are, most people have things that can never be replaced. Many people, however, do not understand that there may be times when public safety personnel/emergency services may have to drive Right By someone/a group/an area in serious distress (even to the point of possible loss of life) because there are other priorities that must be addressed/handled.

E.g. major earthquake happens - one of my first priorities is checking critical facilities/sites/areas. I may have to drive by collapsed homes/buildings, people being crushed under cars/walls/whatever, looters/vandals committing crimes, etc - it sucks but that's just the way it is sometimes...
 

IlluminatingBikr

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He had to hide from them to avoid being arrested and pulled out of his house.

I'm not sure they would actually pull you out of your house or arrest you. My understanding is that "mandatory" isn't actually mandatory. Once you leave, they won't let you back in...but can you really be arrested for remaining in your own house/on your own property?
 

Hooked on Fenix

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We appreciate it... My brothers home just burned down... with his lambo in it. The horrible part is NOT ONE SINGLE firefighter OR police officer came to check up on the neighborhood he was in. He was sleeping and everyone in the world was calling him but his lazy *ss didn't want to pick it up. Around 12ish I would say he finally woke up and listened to his messages.

After walking outside he decided it was time. He started packing stuff into his truck and when he finally saw flames in his back yard he told his neighbors. His neighbors were clueless, he had to honk his horn so the whole neighborhood would come out side and see all the smoke...

Moral of the story, don't trust police, firefighters or the government to help you out when you really need it. He would be dead right now if we had not continued to call him because of the horribly poor execution of the way firefighters and police handled the situation. BTW, he has a fire station 1 block away from his house...

Good luck everyone.

Shadowbuds,
First of all, good job saving the life of your brother. I agree that you can't always depend on the government to help you with your problems. Our government finally brought the price of gas down by causing the housing crisis. Now, people can afford gas, but they have to sleep in their cars. It's always best to solve your own problems and help others around you if you can. Depend on the government only as a last resort. Much of the time, their solution to the problem is worse than the problem itself. Our government, our police, and our firefighters aren't perfect, but as long as they dedicate their lives to helping others, they deserve our respect. I don't expect a firefighter or a police officer to be Superman. They aren't invulnerable and they can't be everywhere at once. It only takes one fire to kill a firefighter or one bullet to kill a police officer. While they are risking their lives to save others, just remember that their neighborhood could be at risk too. If they are fighting fires or evacuating people in your neighborhood, that means that they aren't able to protect their own families in theirs. Before you judge them for not being there when you needed them, ask yourself if you would be willing to make the same sacrifice yourself (risking your life for others while potentially leaving your family at risk). That is a noble sacrifice of these hard working men and women that deserves nothing but our respect.
 

TedTheLed

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it was an ominous moment when that black leaf-sized ash tumbled off the roof and fluttered down outside the window..I went out and yup it was a large cinder, some sort of burned cardboard with a faint design still discernable, perhaps once part of someones house..this
ash had travelled at least 30-40 miles on the wind to land in my yard.
I could smell the fire. The winds had been blowing all night and were gusting to 70..branches had broken off trees..the humidity was about 15%
and the ash meant the fire though far away was aimed right at us like a blowtorch..

so it was turn on the TV and top off the water tank..sure enough on TV a picture from space showed the thin dense plume of smoke blowing across the land right over my area and out to sea..the TV was reporting how the fire was making jumps rom one mountainside to another..I seem to remember something about a burning ember being able to travel a mile at most at a time..is that true??
a few hours later the wind shifted a bit, the smell became less intense,
but the fine sift of white ash continues..
the fires continue, there is little if any containment..someone was arrested for arson....the wind has abated for now..it's evening but still 80F..

we are cleared a hundred feet around the house, and only one palm tree stands right next to the house -- if a fire really came this way, I suppose I would chainsaw it down at the last minute..

the number of house that were ignited right in the middle of their roofs out of seemingly 'nowhere' was amazing -- it's all about the airborn embers -- and not having alot of flamable foliage next to your house.

waiting and watching..best wishes to all.
 

shadowbuds

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His neighbors told me when they were leaving their homes many firetrucks were stationary doing nothing. On the news, many reporters stated that it was if they abandoned Yorba Linda. It was very odd the way his neighbors described the firefighters, it was if they didn't give a damn. Memories are lost, and many items that will never be replaced have been buried under ash. Lots of talk about class action law suits from the neighbors, sounds about right in this situation. Face it, they got caught with their pants down, it's a f**d up situation.
 

shadowbuds

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Shadowbuds,
First of all, good job saving the life of your brother. I agree that you can't always depend on the government to help you with your problems. Our government finally brought the price of gas down by causing the housing crisis. Now, people can afford gas, but they have to sleep in their cars. It's always best to solve your own problems and help others around you if you can. Depend on the government only as a last resort. Much of the time, their solution to the problem is worse than the problem itself. Our government, our police, and our firefighters aren't perfect, but as long as they dedicate their lives to helping others, they deserve our respect. I don't expect a firefighter or a police officer to be Superman. They aren't invulnerable and they can't be everywhere at once. It only takes one fire to kill a firefighter or one bullet to kill a police officer. While they are risking their lives to save others, just remember that their neighborhood could be at risk too. If they are fighting fires or evacuating people in your neighborhood, that means that they aren't able to protect their own families in theirs. Before you judge them for not being there when you needed them, ask yourself if you would be willing to make the same sacrifice yourself (risking your life for others while potentially leaving your family at risk). That is a noble sacrifice of these hard working men and women that deserves nothing but our respect.

I agree with most of what you said. I've lost most of my respect for the firefighters that first responded to Yorba Linda. A few neighbors had stayed back and started fighting every ember that came by with their garden hoses. They said a firetruck was at the bottom of their street (about 500-600 ft away) and did nothing. A few neighbors asked if they could help and they told them they couldn't. The firetruck was stationary for over 1 hour doing nothing with a full crew of firefighters. Sickning, and disturbing. Someone please give me a good explanation for a stationary fire truck that would not help anyone for over an hour even though there were fires ALL AROUND THEM.
 

Hooked on Fenix

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His neighbors told me when they were leaving their homes many firetrucks were stationary doing nothing. On the news, many reporters stated that it was if they abandoned Yorba Linda. It was very odd the way his neighbors described the firefighters, it was if they didn't give a damn. Memories are lost, and many items that will never be replaced have been buried under ash. Lots of talk about class action law suits from the neighbors, sounds about right in this situation. Face it, they got caught with their pants down, it's a f**d up situation.

Sounds like more of a management or coordination problem. The people in charge probably didn't know what to do next and the firefighters were waiting for their next commands. I can't believe that firefighters in good conscious could sit there and do nothing unless they were told to or were waiting to be told what to do. Sometimes, during these fires, there's a lot of red tape involved in getting different municipalities to work together while places burn. It stinks when they argue over jurisdiction while homes burn to the ground but it does happen. Was any of the area federal land? I have seen cases where firefighters have to get approval to help in those areas. Sometimes they don't get approval for using aircraft to fight fires because they didn't have enough spotter planes in the air. Did someone important in the government fly over the area to survey the damage? When we had the Witch fire, the President showed up and all aircraft were grounded until he landed.
As for suing the firefighters, that idea is pointless. I've taken business law classes and I learned that you go where the money is if you want to sue someone. The firefighters risking their lives to help people don't make nearly what they deserve or are worth. They are a rare breed. It is not in everyone's nature to run toward a fire and help others. Most people run away and only think of themselves. You can't pay people enough for that kind of work. All you can do is take in as many people who are willing to do it. Firefighters are stretched thin as it is. Don't try suing them. It's not worth it. You probably won't even cover your legal fees with a lawsuit. You'll be taking taxpayer money away from fighting future fires and hurting others in the process. You'll also be discouraging firefighters from doing their job and change the minds of others who wanted to become firefighters. Nobody wants a high risk, low paying job, in which they get little praise for doing their job right and sued for doing their job wrong. I think the most you can ask for is to find out who made the decision to do nothing and get them fired.
 

KC2IXE

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His neighbors told me when they were leaving their homes many firetrucks were stationary doing nothing. ...snip...

Probably a "Base camp" - the crews are there waiting to be assigned, and believe it or not, resting. You think they can fight fires 24x7? Lots of firefighters die that way. The try to pull them off the lines before the get so tired them make fatal mistakes, get them some food and rest, and then put them back where most needed
 

Lightraven

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I don't know if people are arrested in mandatory evacuations, but I was under the impression that this could happen, if authorities weren't so busy with more important issues.

My dad, the storyteller, describes shutting off the house lights and staying out of sight. Ah well, The Fugitive, he is not, but I guess driving out of town to his house in Scottsdale a couple weeks earlier than planned wasn't enough of an adventure. He does have some volunteer official duties with a DHS agency, so he may get himself roped into some guard/traffic duty himself.

I'd be reluctant to criticize anybody whose job I don't do--specifically a firefighter. Without knowing where they are supposed to be and what they are supposed to be doing, I assume nothing. Too many people make those assumptions about me and have no clue what I'm doing. Is it possible that during a major fire burning homes (and possibly people)that firefighters decide to relax and shoot the bull? It's possible, but unlikely. Maybe they were assigned to protect that location--and not to run around chasing flames.

In my job especially, being in the right place is 50% of the job. Maybe true of firefighters?
 
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