Preon P1 MKIII

[malJohann]

Lit up someone's face in low mode the other night, and not having owned a High CRI light before, was frankly astounded with said person's face not looking the usual pale colour I'm used to with LED flashlights.

 

[defloyd77]

So with this hybrid memory and the LMHB sequence, if you leave it on medium, when you turn it back on it will come on medium, but revert to low instead of high on the next half click, so what happens if you leave it on low? Obviously it will come back on in low, but will this hybrid memory make it turn to low instead of medium with a half press?

If it's set up like the hybrid memory on the Oveready Boss, then yes, it would revert to low again, with a have press. That's how I always set up my Boss lights so I wouldn't have to toggle through the bright settings, to get back to low.

To answer my own question, if you have it in for example config. 4, LMHB, if you turn it off in medium, it will go MLMH, if you turn it off in low, it will cycle LMH, not LLMH like I feared. Nicely done!

 

[SaturnNyne]

I had another issue with the end-of-battery configuration-switching tonight, this time in regular use rather than while just puttering about the house. I was out using the light, I think at 15lm, when it suddenly started strobing to indicate a dying battery. I immediately shut it off and switched to another light. Without really thinking about it, I guess I assumed that the configuration was getting switched when I let it sit flashing, rather than the onset of flashing indicating that the configuration has already been changed. So, when I got home I got out of my car, and I turned on the P1 with the intention of immediately switching down to low, which I figured would easily run normally long enough to see my way inside. Instead, it had changed to configuration 2, so it came on attempting high and a shift took it to tactical strobe. Glad I'm not epileptic.

So, looks like every time I run a battery down, I have to replace it and reconfigure. Undesirable, but I'm not terribly bothered by this. It's not really a big problem, for me. But of course it's important to acknowledge that I'm speaking as a light-obsessive. Though my needs and preferences are unusually exacting, my needs are also less than the average person's, in the sense that my uses are nearly always covered by multiple nice lights. But with a normal person in mind, who would likely be buying this as their only light to carry, to configure once and then forget how to do it, this prototype version is not quite ready for primetime. Research shows that at least 66% of buyers demand that their flashlight not behave as if possessed at the end of every battery. :laughing: But, it's a test batch! This is exactly the kind of thing this run is supposed to shake out I guess. Still, I'm a little sad that what I initially took as an improvement in low battery behavior over my Beta has ended up being a conspicuous fault.

Has anyone else experienced this yet, or is it just me? Surely someone else has run their battery down by now. I know my light has this issue every time I reach the end of a battery while using 15lm, since that's my most used level. Not sure whether the same thing happens from the other levels.

As was mentioned this is a test batch, a test run. Let it all out the good, the bad, the ugly and the beautiful. Can't fix what You don't know is broke , and Yu'd rather make mistakes on a few, figure out what needs to changed, rather than the many.

Just how I see it: we don't benefit the maker if we don't share any problems we run into as early as possible.

The Factory erred and glued the tailcaps on! The tails are removable and serviceable by design if the adhesive can be broke free without damaging the light. Post up any success You may have had battling adhesives like this. Future runs will not be glued.

Glad to hear this! Doesn't help my light, so fingers crossed, but the serviceable switch seems a lot more in line with the Prometheus way of doing things.

These new lights feature a 219C, a tad bit more powerful than the 219B emitter's. This batch appears to be in the tint bin(s) ~4500 - 5000 kelvin to how my eyes see, pleasant. My preliminary exams show these P1's to be a bit brighter than my Beta's. I too will get some light readings soon.

Interesting on the temperature. Your guess is 4500-5000k, and I'm guessing about the same. What's surprising is that it's rated at 4000k, while the Beta is 4500k, but my Beta is warmer than my Preon. Both nice, just funny how they range.

One request: Please don't be that guy who quotes this entire thing in a reply! I been away a while, but I see you out there!

*quotes entire long post*

Lol, I see you there!

Got mine. Happy. #shortestreviewever?

In brevity, beauty.

Lit up someone's face in low mode the other night, and not having owned a High CRI light before, was frankly astounded with said person's face not looking the usual pale colour I'm used to with LED flashlights.

There's no going back, I don't think. :thumbsup:

 

[jylong_away]

First Thank You for your review and Video!


The Factory erred and glued the tailcaps on! The tails are removable and serviceable by design if the adhesive can be broke free without damaging the light. Post up any success You may have had battling adhesives like this. Future runs will not be glued.

GL

The back end of my Satin Black unscrews, but the underlying retaining ring for the clip must be glued. Do you all have any idea what adhesive they used?

 

[SNES]

Same here. This is as far as I got:

 

[jylong_away]

Same here. This is as far as I got:

Unfortunately my satin one doesn't even get that far. Picked them up on the way to work, so might try and crack out the strap wrenches when I get home and see what happens!

Edit: Looking at the threads, and the posted photos more closely, it looks like they may have used a red-strength threadlocker. Things are not looking good....

 

[archer6817j]

I had another issue with the end-of-battery configuration-switching tonight, this time in regular use rather than while just puttering about the house. I was out using the light, I think at 15lm, when it suddenly started strobing to indicate a dying battery. I immediately shut it off and switched to another light. Without really thinking about it, I guess I assumed that the configuration was getting switched when I let it sit flashing, rather than the onset of flashing indicating that the configuration has already been changed.

This is actually normal behavior. The light can't have a low battery behavior because it's also designed to work with two cells. Two empty cells would be 1.8V, well above the full voltage of a single cell. In some sense that's good, because the light could determine if you have one or two cells. I'll investigate, but I don't know if the hardware is present to support that.

In any case, the light will reconfigure itself when the battery is dead because it's actually turning off when it reads .9V. Then when the light is off, the battery recovers voltage and the light turns on again. Basically it's just turning in and off repeatedly. Generally I recommend recharging early and often [emoji4]

 

[Cerealand]

Are you saying I can use my New head on a Preon P2 body with two AAA?

 

[jylong_away]

After a bit of tinkering today, I can confirm that it is indeed red loctite that secures the threads of the end-cap that houses the rubber boot/button. Still have no idea what's being used to retain the clip. It actually looks like the end-piece that's housing the switch was pressure fit, and sealed with red loctite. Can anyone in-the-know(ie. from Prometheus!) confirm this?

 

[Got Lumens?]

After a bit of tinkering today, I can confirm that it is indeed red loctite that secures the threads of the end-cap that houses the rubber boot/button. Still have no idea what's being used to retain the clip. It actually looks like the end-piece that's housing the switch was pressure fit, and sealed with red loctite. Can anyone in-the-know(ie. from Prometheus!) confirm this?

I can confirm that the industrial permanent thread locking adhesive they were not supposed to install, it's not commercial grade lock tite, used to glue these is vibration resistant and also heat resistant to 150°C. You can check your light, but chances are yours won't budge either without permanently damaging the light. It is not coming off without a serious fight. There are no known solvents for this adhesive. The factory will not be using this high grade thread locker in the future by request.

The clip is retained as usual and is held in place by the switch assembly.

Your eyes are not deceiving You, the switch itself is press fit into the tail switch allowing it to be serviced by design. However be advised don't try it on these test lights, as it is meant to be done with the switch disassembled from the body of the light for proper safe access, and just in case any of the thread locking adhesive got between the switch itself and switch body which would prevent the undamaged removal. The non-glued will come .

Are you saying I can use my New head on a Preon P2 body with two AAA?

I'm game, but where is my P2 light, I can't find it. Dang, I just ordered a replacement, I need it

 

[jylong_away]

Thanks for the indepth reply - it's much appreciated. I did manage to get the tailcap off (the bit that retains the rubber boot), but not the switch assembly and clip. Can I confirm when you say that the clip is held in the 'usual way', that you mean the switch asaembly is threaded in to the body?

Finally, a serious question - how heat resistant are the components of the switch? I'm thinking more 'boiled water' than 'blowtorch', btw ;p

As a complete aside(and as I've seen similar comments floating around FB), Titaniun P2 model please! I actually avoided the old Preon range due to issues with the UI and emitter. The Prometheus iteration solves a lot of EDC problems for me.

 

[archer6817j]

Can I confirm when you say that the clip is held in the 'usual way', that you mean the switch asaembly is threaded in to the body?

Finally, a serious question - how heat resistant are the components of the switch? I'm thinking more 'boiled water' than 'blowtorch', btw ;p

Yes, the sub assembly that holds the clip is threaded. Unfortunately the type of loctite used is both permanent and heat resistant. I managed to open one in the shop after heating to 350*F for 15 minutes and then using two specialized tools to grip the threads. I don't think it's possible to do any other way. You can push the switch out with a small rod on the rubber boot. The switch can be replaced without dissembling the light at all.

The main issue is if you bend the pocket clip and need to retention, but if you send it back there is a good chance we can open it without ruining the light.

 

[jylong_away]

I did manage to get the tailcap off without head, but as you say, it did require some specialized grip tools, and a lot of rubber padding to avoid marring the finish too much. Even then, the outside of the tailcap now has 'character'

Out of curiousity, what did you use to heat the light to that temp without effecting the surface finish? And I'm guessing you removed the switch itself before the heading?

 

[archer6817j]

Out of curiousity, what did you use to heat the light to that temp without effecting the surface finish? And I'm guessing you removed the switch itself before the heading?

I have a hot plate and IR thermometer. I'm pretty sure the switch would melt if exposed to those temps.

 

[SaturnNyne]

In any case, the light will reconfigure itself when the battery is dead because it's actually turning off when it reads .9V. Then when the light is off, the battery recovers voltage and the light turns on again. Basically it's just turning in and off repeatedly. Generally I recommend recharging early and often [emoji4]

Interesting! Thank you very much for the explanation of what's happening, Jason. I wish that weren't the case, but I feel better knowing why it's happening.

If it stays this way, I would suggest a very clear explanation of this behavior to buyers, or you'll definitely be hearing about it often from them. If there's something that can be done about it, like disabling configuration below a certain voltage, or a one second disabler that keeps the light from immediately coming back on when it shuts off due to low voltage, I'd definitely recommend looking into that. Any refinement to make the light seem like it's doing something it was designed to do, rather than behaving unexpectedly due to a design limitation. This light is expensive enough that little quirks like that can easily tarnish the impression it makes, and this light is good enough overall that it deserves to be a big success (as do you).

Detecting battery configuration and behaving appropriately would be great, if possible in a standard clicky switch design that cuts all power when off. I've only had this feature in cpu controlled lights that keep power always connected. But if there's absolutely no confusing crossover between a fresh lithium AAA and a very dead 2xNiMH, why not I guess.

Preemptive recharging would be ideal here, but I don't see myself doing that for this light. I've killed a few batteries in it now, and every one died suddenly when I wasn't expecting it, so the attention I'd have to put into coddling the light would be a much greater inconvenience to me than reconfiguring is. Maybe it'd be different if I used high power more and noticed it dimming, but using it 99% of the time on low and medium means it goes straight from fully functional to randomly reconfigured. But oh well, I carry backups for backups, so I can live with it!

 

[jylong_away]

Hokey dokey, so thanks to the previous feedback in this thread, I've managed to sort out the threadlocker on the tailcap and switch assembly, and fully disassembled the light. It was mainly an exercise in curiousity, but did allow me to see how well the parts were machined from a tolerance point of view.

Have been playing around with the light from a usability standpoint, and do generally like it. Firstly, it's *consistent* in its operation. By this, I mean that the light will behave exactly as it says in the instructions, with regards to mode changing, etc. I haven't yet found a situation where a click/press has put it into an unexpected mode. I found the previous iteration of Foursevens AAA lights (such as the Bolt Mini) a bit messy in the way the UI was executed. And then there was all that confusion as to how long you had to keep the light off for to 'remember' a mode. It's actually what put me off getting a Preon after playing with a Bolt Mini.

As some have mentioned, I'm a bit two ways about the hybrid memory - I like the 'memory' concept overall for EDC lights, but the 'hybrid' behaviour still takes me by surprise sometimes (eg. light going to low after changing from a 'remembered' medium setting). Ideally, I'd love the option of configuring between classic/hybrid/no memory like with the Alphas, but have no idea if the hardware on the Preons will support this. 'Boost' mode is awesome

With regards to the removal of 'threads' on the body, I do have to say that it makes the light a bit slippery to operate using the 'cigar' grip, as this is where my index and middle fingers wrap around the light. This may be a function of how short and stubby my hands are, and those with longer fingers may find that they reach the threads on the head when using this grip, and don't have that issue. This doesn't mean I think the threads should be brought back - I think the easy of clipping/unclipping with this configuration is too much of a plus. Is there any way to make the midsection grippier without threading/knurling?

 

[n3mo]

I wrapped some thin paracord around the lights body where it is slimmer. Perfect, because it doesn't move. Grip feels great

 

[jylong_away]

I wrapped some thin paracord around the lights body where it is slimmer. Perfect, because it doesn't move. Grip feels great

Great idea! Especially since I've got a tonne of paracord sitting around from a few years ago. Might even try some glow stuff...

 

[lumenati]

Are you saying I can use my New head on a Preon P2 body with two AAA?

I could not get my Preon MkIII head to work with my P2 bodies. Or my P1s, for that matter. Seemingly not making contact. (a little ball of foil may fix that) However, the older Preon heads do work with the new Preon P1, MkIII bodies.

 

[ronniepudding]

I could not get my Preon MkIII head to work with my P2 bodies. Or my P1s, for that matter. Seemingly not making contact. (a little ball of foil may fix that) However, the older Preon heads do work with the new Preon P1, MkIII bodies.

I found the same with my samples... the threaded parts of the body tubes are different lengths comparing classic Preon and MkIII. The MkIII head does not make contact with the board when attached to the classic tube. The classic head *does* light up on the MkIII tube, but the O-ring is exposed.