Preon P1 MKIII

[Newguy2012]

4 hours 30 minutes on medium, and the copper Beta is still going! Never got above room temp either. Same Eneloop Pro as tested with the Preon.

*EDIT
Copper Beta died at 4 hours, 45 minutes. Never flickered, just slowly dimmed.

Which Beta do you have? The kickstarter or V2? I suspect the higher PWM rate might be causing the lower runtime. The light switches to 100% at a faster rate which is maybe why the light feels warmer compare to your Beta. The beta I own uses CC. I have both the KS and the V2. The newer V2 with 219b Led uses PWM. I have the older V2 with 219a. I guessing it's not using PWM. I haven't test the runtime of these but I expect them to be a bit more efficient.

 

[SNES]

I have the V2 copper Beta

 

[Cerealand]

I have my new eneloop pro charging. Just started medium on my two lights with amazon basic 750 mah batteries (black label, made in japan). Hoping for the best, but the previous posts aren't too promising. Less than half the advertised runtime. This short of a runtime would eliminate my intents for these lights.

 

[Newguy2012]

I got 1h:40m on Eneloop pro before it started flickering. The efficiency of this light is pretty bad compared to his Beta. I suspect the runtime spec is with lithium battery. This news might turn away some people from this light. For me personally this isn't an issue as I carry a spare battery. My batteries get under-utilize for months.

I just tested the light on high(60%) with newly charged Eneloop pro. I held the light in my hand during the whole test to keep it cool. The light starts flicker at 49mins. The light enter low about 45mins and then gradually dims to moonlight. I notice the brightness drop slightly after 20mins, between 35~40mins the light is still above low brightness. If I had to make a guess I would say it's around 20~35lm.

edited:
I tested with the included battery. The battery tops at 911mAh. This time I tested the light with a fan blowing on it. The light blinks at 1:53mins.

 

[Cerealand]

One of the two lights has started blinking at the 1 hour and 25 min mark on medium.

2nd light started blinking at 1 hour and 35 mins on medium.

Very disappointed.

May try again with the battery that came with the light and an eneloop pro.

 

[Got Lumens?]

Which Beta do you have? The kickstarter or V2? I suspect the higher PWM rate might be causing the lower runtime. The light switches to 100% at a faster rate which is maybe why the light feels warmer compare to your Beta. The beta I own uses CC. I have both the KS and the V2. The newer V2 with 219b Led uses PWM. I have the older V2 with 219a. I guessing it's not using PWM. I haven't test the runtime of these but I expect them to be a bit more efficient.

All released versions of the Beta QR v.2 feature PWM. I will confirm that the V.1's also used PWM. I do not know of a CC version of the Beta's driver, but I will find out.

I have a test running now of a MKIII head on the SF PVD body/switch. I'm confident in saying the driver runtime is not negatively affected by the new body/switch finishes. The MKIII P1 test just started blinking fast at 1hr 50 minutes, then started cycling between slow and fast flashing. And now totally dead at the two hour mark. The light is definitely getting into programming mode, and as the battery is being depleted it sets and keeps resetting the lights configuration. I mistakenly started another MKIII test instead of the MKII, more later. Right now I have a MKII test on the 2 cell configuration.

---

I'd like to suggest an addition to the driver if space/memory allows.
If a setting was added to the driver that prevented access to programming mode below 1V,
that would cure the P1's battery low resetting problem. I can't say how it will differ with two
cells, but suspect a two cell setup is draining the cells further than a single cell setup, and
will act close to how a single cell fails. :shrug:

---

One of the two lights has started blinking at the 1 hour and 25 min mark on medium.

2nd light started blinking at 1 hour and 35 mins on medium.

Very disappointed.

May try again with the battery that came with the light and an eneloop pro.

FYI,
The battery that ships with the P1 MKIII is a new improved 850mAh cell.
Older ReCyko cells have 50Mah less capacity. I haven't compared the two yet.
You will get a bit more, but the Prototype MKIII's driver will be sorted out soon.
All these reported problems will be addressed in future releases. Don't feel bad,
feel good that You are helping make the new light better .

 

[Newguy2012]

All released versions of the Beta QR v.2 feature PWM. I will confirm that the V.1's also used PWM. I do not know of a CC version of the Beta's driver, but I will find out.

V.1 2mode doesn't have PWM but the copper one does. I own both. My Beta QR v.2 with 219a doesn't have PWM. As you can see in my QR v2 video there are no strobe lines. I think he transition to a newer driver with the 219b.

 

[mbp1]

...All these reported problems will be addressed in future releases. Don't feel bad,
feel good that You are helping make the new light better .[/FONT]

The product doesn't work as advertised. I understand they're prototypes but it isn't like the light gets 9 hours instead of 10 on medium. It's performing at 20% of advertised spec, that's quite bad and I think an explanation is warranted. I'd be curious what happened in the QC process.

 

[Cerealand]

I also would like a response. I have international trips where I had planned to take these AAA lights instead of CR123 lights due to size and battery access. 2 hours instead of the advertised 10 hours on medium makes a huge difference. Sometimes I won't have access to an outlet to recharge these rechargeable AAA batteries. I would have to carry and use up multiple disposable AAA in a single day.

1 hour 50 mins with eneloop pro, 950 mah on medium.

New fully charged ReCyko cell. 1 hour and 56 mins when the blinking started. 2 hour and 3 mins when light turned off.

Lights have to be reprogrammed if the battery is allowed to be drained to empty.

 

[SNES]

How were the specs even tested? Seems crazy to advertise specs and release a light without doing a simple run test first, prototype or not.

 

[Got Lumens?]

The product doesn't work as advertised. I understand they're prototypes but it isn't like the light gets 9 hours instead of 10 on medium. It's performing at 20% of advertised spec, that's quite bad and I think an explanation is warranted. I'd be curious what happened in the QC process.

How were the specs even tested? Seems crazy to advertise specs and release a light without doing a simple run test first, prototype or not.

These lights are Pre-Production, a test run. All the data presented were calculated values based upon engineered values. The discounted lights were made with a new untested driver design in good faith, to test. It is unclear what is causing the inefficiencies, but was not an expected or intentional result. The problem seems to be consistent among all the first 500 samples and this test version's build. For all we know this very well could be the result another Factory glitch or error like the tailcaps getting adhered shut.

"The primary reason for this pre-production run is to test new finishes in a production environment. If people aren't willing to pay more for PVD, we'll have to go back to anodize. It's likely that 1 or more finish will get dropped on production lights, so this may be your only chance "

My tests have proven the new finishes on the bodies are not causing the found inefficiencies of these prototype driver's.


We can all agree that we have found efficiency troubles with the new Preon's MKIII driver/runtimes.
This problem will be found and corrected.


Other than the new driver being a battery thief , I'm liking the Double click burst. I don't have high hopes, but I would like to see the addition of memory choice. The ability to choose between no memory, hybird memory, or classic memory for all mode configurations. I would settle for different fixed non-selectable memory types dependent to each configuration mode. While I'm dreaming, how about a Micro ICARUS?

I'm really liking the New PVD finish! The CR3(Tri-Chrome) does a much better job than PVD over EN, hands down. I especially like the look and feel of the Satinized finishes. I think all four finishes are keepers. Even if they all don't make it to production, it leaves the possibility for special future releases. Design and grip or ribbing on the body can be added, refined, and changed. It's easier for me to imagine ribs, or pick up a MKII, than to imagine what a ribbed light feels like smooth. I especially like the idea about adding a rubber cigar ring to the Preon, that would be a nice addition.

I just updated post #150 I'm on Hour 13+

 

[InvisibleFrodo]

After the light quits, has anyone been able to recharge the light on a charger that shows how many mah the battery is taking in?

I’m asking because I suspect the cell may not be depleted when the light quits...

Just an idea.

I can confirm that 2 mode v1 Betas have no PWM on low or high.

For what it’s worth, I ordered and payed for a copper v1 way back, and what came in the mail was a v2, right before the v2 was even announced on the website. My v2 copper has PWM on low and medium. Not on high.

I bought my wife a 2 mode v2 as an add on in the Kickstarter campaign for the kappa QR when it was released in alternative materials. Her version of the light has glow in the dark material around the emitter and appears to me to be more like 4000k when compared to my other 3 betas. Her Beta also shows no PWM on low or high.

 

[SNES]

I totally get that these are pre-production, I'm just saying it would have taken 2 hours to spot this before putting up numbers and selling it. Doing an actual run test is a no-brainer.

 

[Cerealand]

I took the sale as a test run on the different coatings, UI, and led. Runtime testing was not a reason I purchased these lights. The runtimes specs were clearly stated at time of purchase. Actual runtimes on medium was not even close to the advertised runtimes. I could live with the glue on clip and tailcap, but not the significant run time differences. I can't take these lights on long trip outdoors.

The statement below is taken directly from the website. I only carried one of lights I purchased. Two of my lights are still in the USPS package. They are all in new condition. The coating holds up well.

"The primary reason for this pre-production run is to test new finishes in a production environment."

 

[Newguy2012]

I took the sale as a test run on the different coatings, UI, and led. Runtime testing was not a reason I purchased these lights. The runtimes specs were clearly stated at time of purchase. Actual runtimes on medium was not even close to the advertised runtimes. I could live with the glue on clip and tailcap, but not the significant run time differences. I can't take these lights on long trip outdoors.

The statement below is taken directly from the website. I only carried one of lights I purchased. Two of my lights are still in the USPS package. They are all in new condition. The coating holds up well.

"The primary reason for this pre-production run is to test new finishes in a production environment."

Ask for a refund if you're not satisfied with it.
https://darksucks.com/pages/contact
https://darksucks.com/pages/warranty-rma


@Got Lumens?
It seems to be me the Med spec is for 2x aaa. That makes more sense.

 

[Cerealand]

I had sent an email to their support email.

The following were not in the email, but below is my feedback.
1. New clicky switch is great. No accidental activation.
2. I have not had a chance to try the different coatings. The satin gray is awesome. Still in like new conditions. I have been very careful with it.
3. Sadly the actual runtime eliminates the main reason why these lights were purchased.
4. Burst mode is great.

 

[Got Lumens?]

After the light quits, has anyone been able to recharge the light on a charger that shows how many mah the battery is taking in?

I’m asking because I suspect the cell may not be depleted when the light quits...

Just an idea.

Link


Link

Update to Post #150

 

[InvisibleFrodo]

I’m not entirely sure how scientific that cell checker is considering it’s basically just putting the cell under an undetermined load and displaying a non-specific voltage under load represented by colors, not numbers.

Also, that cell checker may be designed to test alkaline cells, in which case the lower voltage of the Ni-MH will appear low on this display. That would explain why even a fresh cell is barely into the green.

I’m talking about a digital charger that actually tracks and displays the capacity that the cell takes in before it peaks.

 

[mbp1]

I emailed support as well. I understand it's a pre-production/test run, but 2 hours at 15 lumens when it was listed for 10 means the light is defective, not just a little rough around the edges. I'm fine with minor issues like the glued on tailcap etc but the runtimes being this far off is not acceptable. I love everything about the light otherwise but I won't carry it now that I know it's this inefficient. I'll just go back to the Beta as my backup/light duty torch unless and until they get the driver fixed. Are we going to be able to exchange these defective ones for the next run?

 

[Got Lumens?]

I’m not entirely sure how scientific that cell checker is considering it’s basically just putting the cell under an undetermined load and displaying a non-specific voltage under load represented by colors, not numbers.

Also, that cell checker may be designed to test alkaline cells, in which case the lower voltage of the Ni-MH will appear low on this display. That would explain why even a fresh cell is barely into the green.

I’m talking about a digital charger that actually tracks and displays the capacity that the cell takes in before it peaks.

Yes and Yes.
This is an older cell checker designed for alakalines which hold more capacity and run at a slightly higher voltage than the NiMh's.
I don't mind what number I get, but the depleted cell would not power up either the Beta or Preon.
I guess the valid test for this antiquated tester would be to perform the same test using an alkaline versus a NiMh.
Ill try a NiMh in my VC4 digital charger. I have a few older Eneloops.

Edit:
First time trying NiMh's in the Xtar VC4. I chose two cells one 1/2 depleted and one with >90% to see how the charger acts. Both cells read a different voltage, but the mAh capacity displayed is the amount the charger has put into the cell, not whats left in the cell. I'll let these go and see what they say at the end of charge.