Seems they are playing a one-up on Cree's release. What seems very interesting is the maximum junction temperature. It may make for a warm (heat wise) flashlight, but if you get good life with the extended die temperature, that should mean we can put a heck of a lot of LEDS and lumens into a flashlight head..... http://www.lumileds.com/newsandevents/releases/PR31.PDF
Pretty impressive new specs from Lumileds
- Thread starter SemiMan
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PhotonWrangler
Flashaholic
Pretty neat! I wonder if they'll release a set of optics to accompany the new package.
wquiles
Flashaholic
Very nice - something new to look forward to /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Will
Will
MicroE
Enlightened
Is this a Lux I, III, or V? 350mA at what voltage?
Does anybody know?
Does anybody know?
BentHeadTX
Flashlight Enthusiast
Great!
The 185C temps should allow for very small, high powered Lith-Ion lights! Now what would be interesting is the "65-130 lumen white" LEDs. It would be cool for the LuxI (350mA) at 65 Lumens and LuxIII at 130 lumens. The Inova T4 would truly put out 100 lumens then... interesting.
With the increase in junction temps, will this follow over to the LuxeonV? If so, maybe the life of them will jump to at least 10,000 hours... let the Lumileds/Cree battle begin!
The 185C temps should allow for very small, high powered Lith-Ion lights! Now what would be interesting is the "65-130 lumen white" LEDs. It would be cool for the LuxI (350mA) at 65 Lumens and LuxIII at 130 lumens. The Inova T4 would truly put out 100 lumens then... interesting.
With the increase in junction temps, will this follow over to the LuxeonV? If so, maybe the life of them will jump to at least 10,000 hours... let the Lumileds/Cree battle begin!
Barbarin
Flashlight Enthusiast
With that junction temperature you will be using Barbolight bodies if you want keep your hand under "bbq smell point"
NewBie
*Retired*
[ QUOTE ]
SemiMan said:
Seems they are playing a one-up on Cree's release. What seems very interesting is the maximum junction temperature. It may make for a warm (heat wise) flashlight, but if you get good life with the extended die temperature, that should mean we can put a heck of a lot of LEDS and lumens into a flashlight head..... http://www.lumileds.com/newsandevents/releases/PR31.PDF
[/ QUOTE ]
Right, but you can buy the CREE parts right now. Sounds like they are hoping for a summer release on these new Luxeons, and we all know how insanely long some of these parts have taken to get to market.
As well as LumiLEDs has alreadly gotten a nice black eye, and had to re-release the Lux V, as a 500 hour part after numberous folks started reporting issues with it...
More vaporware (they must be learning from Graphic Chip makers and Intel).
LOL, hey Ma, ME TOO WANNABE!!!
SemiMan said:
Seems they are playing a one-up on Cree's release. What seems very interesting is the maximum junction temperature. It may make for a warm (heat wise) flashlight, but if you get good life with the extended die temperature, that should mean we can put a heck of a lot of LEDS and lumens into a flashlight head..... http://www.lumileds.com/newsandevents/releases/PR31.PDF
[/ QUOTE ]
Right, but you can buy the CREE parts right now. Sounds like they are hoping for a summer release on these new Luxeons, and we all know how insanely long some of these parts have taken to get to market.
As well as LumiLEDs has alreadly gotten a nice black eye, and had to re-release the Lux V, as a 500 hour part after numberous folks started reporting issues with it...
More vaporware (they must be learning from Graphic Chip makers and Intel).
LOL, hey Ma, ME TOO WANNABE!!!
jtr1962
Flashaholic
[ QUOTE ]
BentHeadTX said:
With the increase in junction temps, will this follow over to the LuxeonV? If so, maybe the life of them will jump to at least 10,000 hours... let the Lumileds/Cree battle begin!
[/ QUOTE ]
The point of the increased efficiency is to get rid of the need for 4 dies in order to get 120+ lumens. The Luxeon V probably won't be produced at all once the new parts are released. On a cost per lumen basis it costs 3X as much as the Luxeon III because of the need to closely match Vf. With all the competition from Cree, Nichia, and Lamina exactly who in their right mind would buy a Luxeon V which gives maybe 40% more light than a Luxeon III, costs four times as much, and lasts 1/100 as long? In all likelihood the Luxeon won't be made any more either. Probably you'll just have one emitter type with a rated maximum power similar to the present Luxeon III.
BTW, I agree with Newbie that this is probably vaporware until at least mid-year. After seeing what Cree did, Lumileds had to do something, even if that something was just a press release.
BentHeadTX said:
With the increase in junction temps, will this follow over to the LuxeonV? If so, maybe the life of them will jump to at least 10,000 hours... let the Lumileds/Cree battle begin!
[/ QUOTE ]
The point of the increased efficiency is to get rid of the need for 4 dies in order to get 120+ lumens. The Luxeon V probably won't be produced at all once the new parts are released. On a cost per lumen basis it costs 3X as much as the Luxeon III because of the need to closely match Vf. With all the competition from Cree, Nichia, and Lamina exactly who in their right mind would buy a Luxeon V which gives maybe 40% more light than a Luxeon III, costs four times as much, and lasts 1/100 as long? In all likelihood the Luxeon won't be made any more either. Probably you'll just have one emitter type with a rated maximum power similar to the present Luxeon III.
BTW, I agree with Newbie that this is probably vaporware until at least mid-year. After seeing what Cree did, Lumileds had to do something, even if that something was just a press release.
idleprocess
Flashaholic
I've got to hand it to Lumileds on the Luxeon - they seem to have made the market with their easily hand-soldered, hobbyist-friendly Luxeon. If they had released it as a SMD part, imagine how long it would take to gain acceptance in the market simply because people like us would have difficulty tinkering with them. There wouldn't be nearly as many folks out there modifying maglights or tossing them into custom bodies that get seen.
Even with the other power LEDs out there, none are as recognizable or accessable as the Luxeon - they're all SMD parts and have the look of them. This is subjective, but the physical appearance of other power LEDs isn't as nice, and their output seems to be optically inferior (not as clean or balanced as a Luxeon). PCBs are also traditionally designed with a bit of slop, so precision coupling of a SMD LED with the housing or optical solution still seems to be a challenge.
Luxeon has name recognition where it counts - for now.
The star PCB was another interesting concept - it's something a lighting designer can play with easily and incorporate into interiors or signage with ease. It's almost custom-made for improvising since it has fewer limitaions that the avereage discrete part.
Not that Lumileds is entirely wonderful - they've sat on their hands for too long and the Luxeon as we know it can't be used with most automated PCB fab processes. Their press releases duel with other manufacturers', but Cree has delivered superior product and I imagine that Nichia and some of the lesser-known names will also get there faster than we think.
Exciting times in the power LED business.
Even with the other power LEDs out there, none are as recognizable or accessable as the Luxeon - they're all SMD parts and have the look of them. This is subjective, but the physical appearance of other power LEDs isn't as nice, and their output seems to be optically inferior (not as clean or balanced as a Luxeon). PCBs are also traditionally designed with a bit of slop, so precision coupling of a SMD LED with the housing or optical solution still seems to be a challenge.
Luxeon has name recognition where it counts - for now.
The star PCB was another interesting concept - it's something a lighting designer can play with easily and incorporate into interiors or signage with ease. It's almost custom-made for improvising since it has fewer limitaions that the avereage discrete part.
Not that Lumileds is entirely wonderful - they've sat on their hands for too long and the Luxeon as we know it can't be used with most automated PCB fab processes. Their press releases duel with other manufacturers', but Cree has delivered superior product and I imagine that Nichia and some of the lesser-known names will also get there faster than we think.
Exciting times in the power LED business.
Cornkid
Flashlight Enthusiast
Nice... I think I might want to begin modding my lights!!
-tom
-tom
What I'm really looking forward to with these new Cree and Lumileds emitters is their possible usage in tiny lights -- imagine a Nano, TNC AAA, or Peak AAA single cell light running at 350ma with a 60 lumen output... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Ocelot
Newly Enlightened
[ QUOTE ]
NewBie said:
Right, but you can buy the CREE parts right now.
More vaporware (they must be learning from Graphic Chip makers and Intel).
LOL, hey Ma, ME TOO WANNABE!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Geeze, not like you have an axe to grind or anything.
Sure, you can buy the Cree parts, but the specs I've seen say "28 lumens typical". Show me the part you can buy which says "60 lumens typical". Or even something greater than 28.
Talk about vaporware...
Scott
NewBie said:
Right, but you can buy the CREE parts right now.
More vaporware (they must be learning from Graphic Chip makers and Intel).
LOL, hey Ma, ME TOO WANNABE!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Geeze, not like you have an axe to grind or anything.
Sure, you can buy the Cree parts, but the specs I've seen say "28 lumens typical". Show me the part you can buy which says "60 lumens typical". Or even something greater than 28.
Talk about vaporware...
Scott
IsaacHayes
Flashlight Enthusiast
EDIT, ok I get it. Up to 65lumens at 350ma. 65-130 lumens white. So at ~ luxIII drive levels I assume is the 130lumens. Basicly we could get luxIII output at LuxI drive levels, and LuxV output at LuxIII drive current. Nice!
In any case, it looks to be increased efficiency, and a new package that looks pretty cool. Also they say white and 7 colors, so that means we will have ramped up Red/amber parts too. Anyone up for a 1W X bin R/O?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I sure am!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif I'd take a Cyan too! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif and some whites of course...
Can't wait until these show and we find out what we can do with them. But then I'll have to mod all new lights again! :doh:
In any case, it looks to be increased efficiency, and a new package that looks pretty cool. Also they say white and 7 colors, so that means we will have ramped up Red/amber parts too. Anyone up for a 1W X bin R/O?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I sure am!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif I'd take a Cyan too! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif and some whites of course...
Can't wait until these show and we find out what we can do with them. But then I'll have to mod all new lights again! :doh:
NewBie
*Retired*
[ QUOTE ]
Ocelot said:
[ QUOTE ]
NewBie said:
Right, but you can buy the CREE parts right now.
More vaporware (they must be learning from Graphic Chip makers and Intel).
LOL, hey Ma, ME TOO WANNABE!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Geeze, not like you have an axe to grind or anything.
Sure, you can buy the Cree parts, but the specs I've seen say "28 lumens typical". Show me the part you can buy which says "60 lumens typical". Or even something greater than 28.
Talk about vaporware...
Scott
[/ QUOTE ]
Above 28 lumens per watt:
http://www.cree.com/Products/Lighting/downloads/OV-7090.pdf
As far as the new Luxeons, the press release indicated LumiLEDs would start releasing parts come this summer. Thats definitely vaporware.
Additionally see the Nichia datasheet:
http://www.nichia.co.jp/specification/powerled/NCCW022.pdf
on page 2, notice the specs are at a case temp of 25C (not like the Luxeon specs that you have to derate for temp since the Luxeon spec is with a die temp of 25C), see three bins at 350mA:
Rank Ja 18-25.5 Lumens
Rank Jb 25.5-36 Lumens
Rank Jc 36-51 Lumens
Rank Jd 51-72 Lumens
The NCCW023 is a really interesting part, with it's built in "focusing" lens.
http://www.nichia.co.jp/specification/powerled/NCCW023.pdf
page 10, notice most of it's light is put out between +/- 30 degrees, and check out how narrow the radiation peak is.
Ocelot said:
[ QUOTE ]
NewBie said:
Right, but you can buy the CREE parts right now.
More vaporware (they must be learning from Graphic Chip makers and Intel).
LOL, hey Ma, ME TOO WANNABE!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Geeze, not like you have an axe to grind or anything.
Sure, you can buy the Cree parts, but the specs I've seen say "28 lumens typical". Show me the part you can buy which says "60 lumens typical". Or even something greater than 28.
Talk about vaporware...
Scott
[/ QUOTE ]
Above 28 lumens per watt:
http://www.cree.com/Products/Lighting/downloads/OV-7090.pdf
As far as the new Luxeons, the press release indicated LumiLEDs would start releasing parts come this summer. Thats definitely vaporware.
Additionally see the Nichia datasheet:
http://www.nichia.co.jp/specification/powerled/NCCW022.pdf
on page 2, notice the specs are at a case temp of 25C (not like the Luxeon specs that you have to derate for temp since the Luxeon spec is with a die temp of 25C), see three bins at 350mA:
Rank Ja 18-25.5 Lumens
Rank Jb 25.5-36 Lumens
Rank Jc 36-51 Lumens
Rank Jd 51-72 Lumens
The NCCW023 is a really interesting part, with it's built in "focusing" lens.
http://www.nichia.co.jp/specification/powerled/NCCW023.pdf
page 10, notice most of it's light is put out between +/- 30 degrees, and check out how narrow the radiation peak is.
StoneDog
Flashlight Enthusiast
What the heck is "unsealed factory floor life?"
If it's that important do the modders here on CPF need to worry about it? I know I keep emitters and stars around for weeks, sometimes months, before I do anything with them...
Jon
If it's that important do the modders here on CPF need to worry about it? I know I keep emitters and stars around for weeks, sometimes months, before I do anything with them...
Jon
IsaacHayes
Flashlight Enthusiast
I've wondered about that too. What goes wrong with them if you don't use them right away??? I mean it must be something related to soldering them.. in that case does it get corroded too bad? I doubt it.. If it does just take some sandpaper on the leads... I don't get it.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif
HarryN
Flashlight Enthusiast
I am curious about how these power LED specs all come together in real life. I have built some reasonable (not perfectly) heat sinked light protos from T bin Lux IIIs.
In theory, I should have obtained in the 60 + Lumen range, but apparent Lumens were around 30 - 40 (using the gadget lover kitty litter integrator)
After some dismay on my part, he told me that even Lux V lights are "usually less than 80". Of course, this is not a NIST setup, but there is some basis for the metrology in use here relative to supposedly understood lights.
So - in real life terms, what would one expect in Lumens from a Cree vs Nichia vs Lux III in the 350 - 1000ma range ? Are these really 2 x as bright ? - just asking - seems really impressive, but specs are like politicians.
I also looked over the Nichia specs that Newbie kindly pointed out on the narrow beam version. The location they describe on the CIE curve would not normally be one I called "white" - I may have mis read this info, but it looked to be distinctly redish.
In theory, I should have obtained in the 60 + Lumen range, but apparent Lumens were around 30 - 40 (using the gadget lover kitty litter integrator)
After some dismay on my part, he told me that even Lux V lights are "usually less than 80". Of course, this is not a NIST setup, but there is some basis for the metrology in use here relative to supposedly understood lights.
So - in real life terms, what would one expect in Lumens from a Cree vs Nichia vs Lux III in the 350 - 1000ma range ? Are these really 2 x as bright ? - just asking - seems really impressive, but specs are like politicians.
I also looked over the Nichia specs that Newbie kindly pointed out on the narrow beam version. The location they describe on the CIE curve would not normally be one I called "white" - I may have mis read this info, but it looked to be distinctly redish.
IsaacHayes
Flashlight Enthusiast
funny because I've gotten partial reels of luxeons and they have a hole in the bottom of each led package... Not exactly air tight. I've yet to have a luxeon explode on me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif But then again I'm not a SMT soldering robot...
NewBie
*Retired*
SMT parts go through a reflow oven. Moisture within the package, especially with the high percentage plastic/silicone devices like the Luxeon, can actually blow themselves apart during oven reflow if not kept in a low humidity environment.
HarryN, yes, you read it wrong, it's right on top of the LumiLEDs bins. BTW, Nichia does often offer tighter sub-color binning, with a minimum increase in price....
HarryN, yes, you read it wrong, it's right on top of the LumiLEDs bins. BTW, Nichia does often offer tighter sub-color binning, with a minimum increase in price....
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