Primaries so bad?

[Taboot]

I have a bunch of lights that use CR123 cells. Every time I get one, I end up buying a charger, an LA that can deal with rechargeables and the cells. One ends up with all kinds of NIMHAAs, 18650s, 17500s, RCR123s and multiple LION & Nimh chargers and non-stock LAs in order to avoid spending money on CR123s.

My question is: Unless you're a security guard, rescue worker or a LEO, are rechargeables actually less expensive? You can get really decent CR123 primaries for $1 each (ex: http://www.batteryjunction.com/tpen-tcr123a-.html. )

I recently bought an M6, and I'm debating going rechargeable or just buying a ****load of CR123s and not worrying about it.

Opinions?

 

[tebore]

I spent like $30 on rechargeable and charger I'm sure I've gone through what would have been $30 of primaries already.

Not to mention once you get the charger you can start getting old 18650s from laptop batteries and start tinkering with different hotwire combos.

In my case it added to the fun, and the fun alone was well worth the price of the investment.

 

[precisionworks]

Unless you're a security guard, rescue worker or a LEO, are rechargeables actually less expensive?

It depends on your runtime per night or day ... My E2L probably sees under half an hour per day, the 120P about half of that, the 6P/M60 maybe ten minutes. I buy Surefire batts in the 72 pack, which seems to last forever.

For me, primaries make more sense.

 

[Wattnot]

I was right with you until you said this:

I recently bought an M6, and I'm debating going rechargeable or just buying a ****load of CR123s and not worrying about it.

Opinions?

LOL! There's a huge difference if you're talking about an LED that takes 1 or 2 primaries (which is what I assumed you were talking about) or a battery PIG like the M6! Six batteries per 30 minute gulp and it's fun to play with too ?!?!? YIKES! Go rechargeable on the M6 and leave the rest as CR123's !!

For me, the more lights I get the less sense it makes to set each one up as a rechargeable, espically when some of them end up in cars.

 

[Crenshaw]

only reason i even have Li-ons is for the extra V.

Crenshaw

 

[Taboot]

I was right with you until you said this:





LOL! There's a huge difference if you're talking about an LED that takes 1 or 2 primaries (which is what I assumed you were talking about) or a battery PIG like the M6! Six batteries per 30 minute gulp and it's fun to play with too ?!?!? YIKES! Go rechargeable on the M6 and leave the rest as CR123's !!

For me, the more lights I get the less sense it makes to set each one up as a rechargeable, espically when some of them end up in cars.

LOL!! That's what I'm talking about. The CR123 option is clearly cheaper to me until you consider the M6. The M6 takes 6 CR123s per 20 to 30 minute shot. Seems like a natural for rechargeables. However, considering that the alternative is 6 x RCR 123s and a charger AND a new LA plus electricty(negligible), and the fact that I don't use it that often, the cost justification gets muddy. If $6 for 6 Titanium CR123s gets me 30 minutes, it will take a good while to justify the RCR setup.

 

[Monocrom]

Let's put the M6 aside for a moment, since it's a specialty light.

As a Security Guard, I used a 2C Maglite w/ MagLED drop-in at my last job assignment. A great light that always got the job done. It sipped batteries, so using primary cells was never an issue. If I wasn't testing out my Fenix P3D Q5 for a future review, I'd likely still be using my 2C Mag.

I have a handful of 18650 cells (AW and Ultrafire) and a couple of lights that take those cells. So far, my early experiences with 18650s has shown that perhaps primaries are indeed best.

 

[roguesw]

I am currently using 4 lights, and they are all living on rcr123s. They are all recharged every 2 weeks and i have done this for the last 3 years.
Taking that into account, my initial purchase cost of 30 dollars have lasted me over 3 years. I think thats pretty economical.
If i had to change batteries twice a month for 4 lights, thats 6 batteries x 2 = $12 dollars a month, i would have spent 12 x 36 = $432 for the last 3 years
$30 vs $432 over 3 years is pretty good
Also, i do use rechargaebles for the extra voltage.

 

[Wattnot]

Well for the M6, there are people discussing and/or working on some rechargeable solutions. I don't have an M6 and it's not even on my list right now. I would probably buy a Boxer 24w or a Storm first. But anyway, IIRC you have to change the lamp and pop in rechargeables and you're off. Here is a thread or two but I'm not following this that closely:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=189699

Here is a fresh thread with beamshots. I believe someone here is trying out different aftermarket lamps/modules:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=193060

Let us know how it turns out. People seem so impressed with the output of the stock M6 but I don't recall reading too many accolades on the home-brew rechargeable projects. Again, probably because I'm not following this that closely!


.

 

[adamlau]

Instead of investing in batteries to match my lights, I invest in lights which work with 18500 and 17670/18650 only.

 

[yellow]

its not only cost (when one seldomly uses the light)
its also the (unnecessary) waste
one does not care about, others do

 

[Taboot]

its not only cost (when one seldomly uses the light)
its also the (unnecessary) waste
one does not care about, others do

True. Also can't be great environmentally.

 

[Taboot]

I am currently using 4 lights, and they are all living on rcr123s. They are all recharged every 2 weeks and i have done this for the last 3 years.
Taking that into account, my initial purchase cost of 30 dollars have lasted me over 3 years. I think thats pretty economical.
If i had to change batteries twice a month for 4 lights, thats 6 batteries x 2 = $12 dollars a month, i would have spent 12 x 36 = $432 for the last 3 years
$30 vs $432 over 3 years is pretty good
Also, i do use rechargaebles for the extra voltage.

That's the way to do it if you can. My problem is that I have lights (and other devices) that have/need:

18650s
17500s
17670s
RCR123s
AAs
AAAs
D cells

CRV3s

16v battery packs

etc.

All told, I would need alot of chargers and batteries and Lamps and extension tubes to go CR123-free. I guess it depends on usage and as Yellow pointed out, willingness to be wasteful.

 

[js]

I've spoken up about this issue before, and got a bit of flak from it and ended up starting (and being involved in) a bit of a flame war.

So . . . I'll try and be a little more careful in my presentation this time.

Nonetheless . . .

It is my considered opinion that many people here on CPF drop a lot of money and go to a lot of trouble in order to be able to use rechargeables in their various lights. And there is often a lot of talk of "guilt free" lumens.

Now, in my estimation, in a large percentage of these cases, the people would have been better off financially if they had just spent all that money on a big ole box of primary cells. It's not always the case, of course, and does depend on your situation, but the point I'm trying to make is just that it seems to be a foregone conclusion for many people that primaries are a waste of money and rechargeables are basically free.

Not true.

There is no such thing as "guilt free lumens" if by that we mean a light that is free to run after an initial expense. Some lights come close, I will admit, but all rechargeable batteries fail, prematurely or not, so at the very least, there is that consideration.

Anyway, what I'm getting at here is the strange mentality that will drop $500 or even $1500 dollars on lots of really cool and amazing lights, but then balk at dropping $100 on batteries. Or the mentality that refrains from running the lights due to the cost of primary cells.

Somehow, it's OK to drop crazy amounts of money on a one-time purchase, but simply "stupid" to spend money running a light like the SF M6 or 12PM or something.

Honestly, I've blown way more money on rechargeable battery packs (either because they failed, or because I accidentally destroyed them or whatever) than I have on primary cells.

And when I buy Duracell or SureFire primaries, I feel fairly confident that they will be ready and able to serve when needed, even 5 or 10 years from now. And I can stash them in various places. I won't go to turn on my light in a power failure and realize that oops it's not charged and not be able to charge it.

Again, it all depends on the individual and his or her useage and ownership patternes. All I'm trying to say is that in some cases, there are people who buy into a rechargeable set up that maybe would have been better off even financially, to have purchased primaries instead.

As for the M6, if you run the MN15, you get 2.5 hours on a set of primaries. That's the way I run my M6, and I love it. See my "X-LOLA" link in my sig-line for more info.

 

[cal..45]

I feel when it comes down to CR123's or even 18650's there is really no alternative for rechargeables, because:

1. one CR123 primary cost at least 1,80 euro over here (2,78 US $)

2. there are no 18650 primaries at all, at least I'm not aware of any


its quite opposite when it comes down to AA/AAA cells. I stopped using rechargeables for lights or whatever devices which use those kind of batteries, because it doesn't make any economical sense. I don't have a good charger (personally I think 90% of them are crap) and for a REAL good charger I have to pay at least 35 euro ( 54 US$ ) and about 15 euro ( 23 US $) for a pack of 4 enelopes. all in all I have to pay about 50 euro and for that amount I can buy 227 (!!!) AA primaries (about 22 euro cent for one) at the next discounter. they may not have the capacity and horsepower like rechargeables do, but it certainly will take a long time until I used 227 primary cells....


regards, holger

 

[yellow]

Its all between the ears of the user

I have on EXPENSIVE charger for AAA-D Ni-Mhs (+ the cheap small AAA/AA charger for € 35,--, mentionned above, for vacation)
+
such a multisize-charger for Li-Ion
+
my pack charger using the ECS method for packs from 1-10 cells and NiCd/NiMh/lead/Li-Ion

makes 3 chargers for any kind of cell/pack one can think of - no need to have one gadget for every size of cell!
and thats because of the poor runtime incan lights offered on primaries and the cost for CR123s here, as cal.45 also stated
(but hes wrong on the bad rechargeable AAs, as they are way better in 2 AA lights - offering a way higher current draw for a longer time. Especially if the primaries are cheapos)

 

[Monocrom]

I've spoken up about this issue before, and got a bit of flak from it and ended up starting (and being involved in) a bit of a flame war.

So . . . I'll try and be a little more careful in my presentation this time.

Nonetheless . . .

After my initial experiences with using 18650 cells, I'm starting to understand exactly what you mean.

 

[LED_Thrift]

One point: once you have the cells & charger [whether it made $ sence or not for that one light] adding another light that uses those cells does give nearly free lumens.

 

[Monocrom]

One point: once you have the cells & charger [whether it made $ sence or not for that one light] adding another light that uses those cells does give nearly free lumens.

Not if you encounter problems with the rechargeable cells or the charger itself. You then end up with a light that puts out, no light.

I don't think it's a coincidence that many 18650 lights also work with CR123 cells.

 

[cal..45]

(but hes wrong on the bad rechargeable AAs, as they are way better in 2 AA lights - offering a way higher current draw for a longer time. Especially if the primaries are cheapos)

I did with no word mention bad rechargeable AA's, (though there are lots of them which are not exactly too great either) I only comply about bad chargers. the only double AA light I currently own is a fenix L2D which serves me as a desktop light. and for that purpose my suboptimal AA charger is way good enough. all I'm saying is, that I don't see the need nor do I have the will to spend more money on rechargeable AA's and the accordingly charger. my fenix L1D runs just fine with primaries (always set to "low" anyway) and if I want or need more power, my RCR123 light (P2D) or my 18650 light (DBS) kicks in.


regards, holger