Primary lithium safety

[McAllan]

:wave: Hi there in the dark - let there be light :candle:

While I've been a long time battery junkie I really don't have much experience with primary lithiums except coin cells. And to be true all those reports of exploding/burning lights really do concern me. While rechargeable nickle based batteries are pretty safe and only danger is leaking and heat from high shortcut currents the case seems rather different with those CR123A powered lights.

While always a good idea to "bundle" cells and only use cells of same usage history in a flashlight this seems an absolute necessity with CR123A if one don't want the danger of one cell going .

How about those small one CR123A based lights. Have anyone have any accidents with them running them on turbo for long periods etc.? I'd really like to use my PD20 more than I do because of the great output from a small light where portability is important but run time from the single CR123A will most likely be enough. However most of the time I find myself bringing a 1 or 2 AA instead. 1 AA while being almost as small it lacks a bit in output and similar 2 AA being bigger but also has better run time.

And how about those Lithium "1.6 v" AA? Are they just as (un)safe as CR123A. Not that I'll use those a lot since I'm generally a big fan of LSD NiMH but for emergency use I might buy a pack to have on standby.

Last a question of the expiry date of the CR123A. While I don't hesitate using alkalines expired 5 years or more ago in applications where they don't sit for long (like my wireless mouse) or in a low output light if all my rechargeables are flat - and I never had a leak. I really do wonder if it's safe to use those expired CR123A. Are they safe to use in a multiple cell light - in a single cell light (as no matching is an issue) - or not very safe at all ? A possible leak and a ruined light really don't make me nervous but the pictures of those exploded lights really do.

Hope my questions are not too complicated to answer

 

[Black Rose]

Single cell CR123A based lights are considered to be safe, as there is no chance of a reverse charge situation occurring, which is what usually triggers the events.

I have previously asked the same question about the Lithium "1.6 v" AA (i.e. Energizer Lithium AA) and was told that they have a different chemistry and are safe to use in multicell lights without the fear of it going .

I also have used expired alkaline cells with no issues, but I make sure they get consumed quickly.

I personally would use an expired CR123A in a single cell light, but I definitely would not use expired CR123As in a multicell light.
I think that is just asking for trouble.

 

[McAllan]

Thanks a lot! Think that answers my questions.

Guess my PD20 will get a lot more use then lovecpf

As well as I might buy other 123 lights. But probably not those multitude monsters except if it's really something special.

Have also read the numerous threads pointing out only use Surefire, Duracell etc. But for some reason those are not very reasonably priced where I live except for buying a ton in an online store (which I won't be able to use before they expire). A local hardware store has a wide range of their store brand and thereby the CR123. I'm using their button cells and alkalines and they're practically unbeatable for price/performance; performance almost same as big brands but and leaking a non issue. Doesn't state where they're made however... Wondering about it. Guess it'll then be safe to use their 123 in at least single cell lights then.

 

[RAGE CAGE]

Read thru the following threads in this sub forum- they are extremely informative. Also make sure to buy a DMM (digital multi meter) if you are using multiple cells in a light to ensure equal charge rate in each cell.
Primaries should be Li-MN (allegedly safer) as opposed to rechargable Li-Ion- there are other chemistries as well.....

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=107

 

[TranceAddict]

statistics say that protected li-ion are less prone to vent than primaries. consider to use li-ion, save money while good to the environment.

 

[McAllan]

statistics say that protected li-ion are less prone to vent than primaries. consider to use li-ion, save money while good to the environment.

Thanks for the advice. I will and have considered that. Wonder though if there's a regulated RCR123 that can tolerate the current of a PD20 on turbo (as it's not good running at full LiIon voltage because of regulation).
Or perhaps the LiFePO4 will soon be more available. And then there's the run time of a RCR123 vs. a non rechargeable. If I am to bring spares then I could just grab the LD20 and then do without spares.

I do have a considerations about those LiIons too and especially obscure "no name" brands. Unfortunately that what's mostly available. Probably because LiIon in that "standard" form factor is only used in high end flashlights. All other consumer products wrap the LiIons in proprietary packets.
I will however always go for protected cells with traditional LiIons. LiFePO4 however might be an exception since they're just about as safe as NiMH but then you need to keep an eye on it but at least the only thing you're risking of the health of the cell.

But for the time being I probably won't buy any rechargeable RCR123 or 18650 etc. yet as the only lithium light I have at the moments is the PD20 I use when I want to go light weight. It can however change if there's something really exciting using those cells.

 

[carrot]

Please note that regulated RCR123 and protected RCR123 are two separate things.

 

[Hen]

Hi, so using 2 non-rechargeable CR123A batteries in a flashlight is dangerous?

 

[Dr Jekell]

Hi, so using 2 non-rechargeable CR123A batteries in a flashlight is dangerous?

Using two CR123A batteries (AKA primary batteries) in a light is safe as long as you are sensible while doing so.

- Use the same brand of batteries (Don't mix & match)
- Use batteries from the same batch (as much as possible)
- Use quality batteries (Surefire, Duracell, Energiser, battery station) as they will have inbuilt safety features. Also buy them from a reputable supplier so you won't get counterfeit batteries.
- If you have any concerns about a battery use a battery tester like the ZTS MBT-1 Battery Tester

I am sure I have forgotten an item or two but someone will add it soon.

 

[RAGE CAGE]

If they are not both of equal voltage or if the shrink wrap on either of them are damaged, or if any other factor in the tube could cause a short- then there is a potential for reverse charge, or thermal runaway....
there is a lot of stored energy in these cells that if released quickly can be hazardous- but there is a wealth of information here on cpf regarding safe usage- use the search function to make your own informed decision as to risk v. reward.

 

[hoongern]

I think a couple have mentioned equal voltages to match batteries (We're talking about Primary CR123s here, not Li-Ions):

1) Two CR123 [Primary 3V] cells which have the same voltage may not have the same charge! You cannot measure the charge of a CR123 using just a volt meter. I have new CR123s and spent CR123s which have very similar voltages.

You have to measure their charge using a pulse-load battery tester like the ZTS battery tester, or at least measure their voltage under a load.

Don't ever use multiple CR123s of different charge levels in a multi-cell light!!

Anyway, I think single cell lights should be fine.

2) I can't remember if the PD20 is regulated on > 3V sources (like Li-Co and Li-Mn Li-Ions) - you may want to check that.

3) LiFePO4 rechargeables are considered the safest Li-Ions AW sells them (16340/'CR123'-sized) here in his CPFMP thread. Of course, they still have their dangers!