Problem with mode spacing and mode memory

Swedpat

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First of all: happy new year 2017!

What I want to talk about is when the mode spacing with lights is not very big, like 2 times and it has mode memory. For example: imagine a light with 50, 100 and 200 lumen. Depending on the circumstances and outer conditions I can't always really know when I turn on the light if it's 50 or 100lm. In the same way I can't always be sure if it's 100 or 200lm. Usually I can decide if it's 50 or 200lm, however.
I have experienced with Fenix HP05 headlamp when I turn it on at the highest mode of 350lm. It has a stepdown to the next level below of 150lm after a few minutes. After a while I want to cycle to lower the output to the 50lm level and then discover that it instead increases to the 350lm mode. I didn't notice the stepdown though it's instant. I would definitely notice it if I held the lamp still but when I walk around and move my head in the forest it's enough that I miss it. And it happened twice on the same walk.

Another time I used Fenix LD12 2017 edt. at the 70lm level. Or thought I did: when I wanted to go to highest 150lm mode it went to lowest mode. The mode button is easily touched accidently and I have hard to always really be sure if the brightness is 70 or 150lm. I didn't notice that I accidentally jumped up to 150lm level.
This is another proof that the eyes ability to determine brightness is limited and that two times difference is pretty subtle.
Therefore I like LD09 better: it always starts at low(the predecessor at mid mode) and I can be sure that two fast press at the switch turns on the mid mode. I have tried it many times now and it never fails. But the mode memory of LD12 combined with the pretty tight brightness levels makes me regularly cycle through the levels to be really sure I get the right mode and that I didn't earlier accidentally turn on a higher mode than I intended to use. And with this situation the mode memory looses its function.

Am I alone with this problem?
 
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staticx57

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That is because humans see based upon a logarithmic/exponential scale. That is to say that in order to seem twice as bright you need 4x the lumens, or to seem twice as dim you need 1/4 the lumens. That is not to say that 50 and 100 lumens do not seem the same because you will see a difference but it will not be 2x.
 

Swedpat

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That is because humans see based upon a logarithmic/exponential scale. That is to say that in order to seem twice as bright you need 4x the lumens, or to seem twice as dim you need 1/4 the lumens. That is not to say that 50 and 100 lumens do not seem the same because you will see a difference but it will not be 2x.

Yes, and because the eyes ability to determine brightness is limited it's a problem with mode memory and a mode difference of only ~2 times. It should be at least 3 times. This is so annoying for me so I have stopped to use several lights with mode memory and too tight mode spacing.

Still: my personal experience is that I definitely perceive 4times brighter as more than twice as bright but the real problem is when I can't compare side by side or with an instant change. Like when I turn on a light. Different outer light conditions makes it even harder to determine.
 
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blah9

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Yeah I have that problem sometimes too, especially if it's a light I haven't used as much lately. However, my main two EDCs don't give me that problem thankfully. With one of them the modes are mostly spaced out pretty well and with the other it always comes on high so I know what to expect at all times.
 

Swedpat

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Thanks for replies!

Regarding Fenix LD12 2017 edt. Using 14500 battery solves the problem when it comes to next highest and highest level: with a turbomode increase from 150 to 320lm the 4 times brightness difference to ~80lm high mode is usually easily noticeable.
 
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tops2

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Lol..I don't like mode memory. I have the same problem too and always forget which level I'm on. Heck, as much as I love Zebralights...sometimes in the middle of the night, the lowest moonlight mode looks so bright that I'll double click and accidentally switch to the "highest" low level. ;)
 

Swedpat

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Lol..I don't like mode memory. I have the same problem too and always forget which level I'm on. Heck, as much as I love Zebralights...sometimes in the middle of the night, the lowest moonlight mode looks so bright that I'll double click and accidentally switch to the "highest" low level. ;)

The UI of Zebralight works good but there are situations when I am not sure if I turn on for example M1 or M2/H1 or H2. Still, it's easy to check with a double click and I don't need to cycle through all the other modes.
And with a double click from off I can know that I am on a M mode so it's not an issue like with Fenix LD12, LD25 and TK22.
 
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MAD777

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And here's the other variable that makes it even more complicated. Our eyes adjust to the amount of light by making our pupils smaller or larger. So when we turn a bright light on, our pupils close up. If we turn on the moonlight our pupils stay open.

This skews our perception of the raw numbers recorded by light meters, which don't have pupils.
 

LeanBurn

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That's why I prefer lights like my TiS that has firefly sub lumen...then 10 Lumens...then 130 lumens. I know which mode I am in at any given moment and it will fulfill every lighting need. My TN4A is much the same way.
 

dmattaponi

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That's why I prefer lights like my TiS that has firefly sub lumen...then 10 Lumens...then 130 lumens. I know which mode I am in at any given moment and it will fulfill every lighting need. My TN4A is much the same way.

Agreed...in my limited experience, Thrunite does seem to do a nice job of mode spacing. I carry a 1Av3 as my edc, and there is a distinctly visible difference between the various modes, as well as nicely balanced runtimes. Same is true of my TN4A' and Ti3.
'
 

Burgess

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I have this same problem.


And I always want / need to KNOW
which brightness mode my flashlight is in,
while I am using it !


:cool:
_
 

reppans

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Another 10x fan - I'm a low-lumen mode-spacing snob). My favorite EDCs are, or are programmed to, ~0.3/3/30/300.

That said, for certain/specific higher lumen applications (like bicycling) I do like having close 2x steps in the higher range so I can effectively double runtime without a big difference in perceived output (and can program the unnecessary modes out of the cycle).
 
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