milkyspit
Flashlight Enthusiast
This is a continuation of the Project-M thread started by Knight Lights. You can find that one over here...
Project-M by Milkyspit: Long-Running High Output LED: Availability, Info, Photos
[size=+1]What's Project-M? (Summary)[/size]
Project-M is a family of engineered lights...
...build an LED light that combines bright output with extreme efficiency and very long runtimes. It's not about this or that magic component, but rather the synergies possible in a well-engineered (hopefully!) whole...
...instinctively find myself reaching for this light more than for any other... and believe me when I say there are some excellent choices around here! But there's something very compelling... The whole really is more than the sum of its parts, and a certain synergy takes over...
Read more in the original project post, copied at the bottom of this one.
[size=+1]Gallery (Some Examples)[/size]
[size=+1]Project-M Master Runtime Chart[/size]
[size=+1]Additional Runtime Charts[/size]
At the time Leef did his runtime test, the M180 was among the best-available Project-M lights. Since then, additional choices have emerged. One example: the M273 will achieve runtimes virtually identical to what Leef has charted below, but does so while generating 273 lumens rather than the 180 of Leef's light.
Fellow CPFer Leef took the time to chart runtime of his M180-KL2 head and the better of his two SureFire L6 flashlights. Both flashlights were running 3x123 fresh SureFire 123 cells. The charts show overall output of both lights and seem to approximate actual lumen output of the lights (divide his readings by ten). Note: according to Leef, the SureFire L6 in the test is an unusually good one.
Overall Output vs. Runtime, M180-KL2 with Various Battery Options (Linear Scale)
Overall Output vs. Runtime, M180-KL2 vs. SF-L6 (Linear Scale)
Overall Output vs. Runtime, M180-KL2 vs. SF-L6 (Logarithmic Scale)
The logarithmic scale approximates the brightness differences that the human eye actually sees.
Leef states that at the 240 minute mark, both test subjects were still generating useful amounts of light.[/QUOTE]
[size=+1]Project-M BuildAssist Checklist, Version 1![/size]
While answering a fellow CPFer via PM, it occurred to me that some sort of checklist might help folks get their hands around specifically what sort of build they might want... hopefully it will help both customer and me to be on the same page as far as where to expend the most energy in designing their light. I'm honestly not sure if I've got it right yet, but here's a start... :thinking:
1. What size does this light need to be? Is that a firm requirement, or your ideal scenario? How much of an issue would it be to build something of a slightly different size than the ideal?
2. Which head needs to be used? Either a specific head, or an example of how big. Is this a specific requirement or the ideal... if the latter, how much of an issue would it be to build something using a little smaller or larger head?
3. What sort of output are you looking for in terms of minimum and/or maximum?
4. What battery configuration would be most important?
5. What other battery configurations would you need to support, in order of importance? Are these must-have configurations or ones you'd like to have, but maybe don't absolutely need?
6. What are your budget constraints?
7. Please rank these from most important to least important: multi-brightness capability; ability to run with the widest-possible variety of battery configurations; maximal operating efficiency.
8. Are you willing to limit the potential brightness of your light to make it more stable (able to run continuously from start to finish with no heat issues, ability to operate on badly depleted cells, etc.)... or would you prefer to go for the brightest thing possible at the cost of it possibly only being able to run for 15-20 minutes or so at a time?
[size=+1]Ordering?[/size]
Project-M lights are generally made to order, which allows me to create the best-possible fit with you and your intended mission for the light. Please contact me by either PM or email...
You could also post in this thread.
[size=+1]Another satisfied Project-M customer!
[/size]
[size=+1]ORIGINAL PROJECT-M POST: What's Project-M All About? A Recap.[/size]
(Posted the original explanation of what Project-M seeks to achieve in the original thread for one of these lights from quite some time ago. As it occurred to me that many folks probably never saw it, and I don't expect them to scour CPF in search of such a thing, it appears below in excerpted form. For the complete, unabridged version, take a look over here!)
[size=+1]O[/size]nce upon a time there was an old lady who had a lot of cats and lived alone in her unobtrusive little country cottage. Seriously. In those days I used to revel in snow days, not so much for not having to go to school, but because they represented a financial windfall! In a good morning's work I could earn $20 shoveling snow at three of the neighbors' homes... and my biggest customer was Mrs. Allmansberger, the elderly cat lady.
I can read your mind, kind reader! "So what the heck does Milky's crazy cat lady have to do with high end lights?" Please, pull up a comfy chair and let me tell you, dear friend.
My father was cut from old-school cloth... "there's a right way and a wrong way to EVERYTHING, son..." even shoveling snow. I won't bore you with details but suffice to say, I was out there laboring hard, doing quite the professional job of hand shoveling (which to this day I'll defend as totally superior to any plowed or snowblown work! although also far more laborious of course) as my father had so expertly taught me... and out came Mrs. Allmansberger, clad in her signature weatherbeaten coat and black rubbers (when "rubbers" most commonly referred to footwear for inclement weather, and NOT anything sexual)... this itself was unusual as typically my sole interaction with the woman was when she reached out her split-level window to reach down with my payment... she watched for a time, then made this infamous statement: "We don't need an engineer on the job."
I later graduated from Princeton University with an engineering degree.
"So what does this have to do with FLASHLIGHTS! Show me the beef!" you say. Please, read on!
I've long been overshadowed even at PhotonFest, my own event for goodness sake! because the lights I design tend to be ENGINEERED and don't impress... my personal definition of engineering is the study and application of compromises to achieve the most desirable whole. So my lights aren't brightest, nor largest, nor smallest, nor the strangest colors, nor capable of igniting one's hair... no mine are only reasonably compact lights with good output and decently long runtime, the sort I personally prefer for a good walk through the woods or down to the quarry behind my house. The PhotonFest attendees, God bless them, are very polite... they take the requisite time thoughtfully examining my creations... then move on to the Thors, crazy supercharged HIDs, teeny Larry-inspired lights, big 22x18650 bird cooker headlight-on-a-stick mods (seriously, this exists!), and many, many more. And those lights are impressive, they're fun to play around with! I love seeing all the great stuff folks bring around. Sadly, my small milky fleet gets left far behind.
Now given all the above, which hopefully was at least mildly entertaining...
Project-M is a family of engineered lights.
I've been working on what I call Project-M for a while now, developing the concept bit by bit... folks at PF6 saw the M180, an early prototype. A few of you have even, very quietly, purchased M180s though they haven't even been officially announced prior to now. The concept is this: build an LED light that combines bright output with extreme efficiency and very long runtimes. It's not about this or that magic component, but rather the synergies possible in a well-engineered (hopefully!) whole.
Now I am proud to introduce the smallest member of the family, a very rare breed, built into some pristine long-defunct SureFire LED heads and suitable for attachment to an M3 or M6 body...
The M180-KL2. (note: as of this post, the M273-KL2 runs as long as the M180-KL2 but with 273 lumens output.)
Some basics: the M180-KL2 generates, on average, 180 lumens overall output continuously, in perfectly flat regulation, for at least 2.5 hours off 3x123 primaries or 2x17500 protected 1100mAh Li-ion rechargeables. The beam tint is XO or WO depending on specific choice of emitters. (I personally prefer the XO tint.) The head is very efficient and although it's well heatsinked, will tend NOT to generate much heat at all... in fact, even including converter inefficiency, it draws only 3.7 watts or so of power, which is less than many single LuxIII mods consume. :naughty:
Some photos...
The head is more-or-less identical from the outside to a typical M3 incan head, but inside is another story. The M180-KL2 won't win any throw contests against the SureFire lamp assemblies and yet it IS a good thrower... on the straight stretch of road in front of my home, I can illuminate a good 100 yards or so down the road, maybe more. What's interesting here is this head ALSO pumps out quite a bit of bright sidespill, and the tint is about as neutral white as any LED that I've ever had the pleasure of seeing... was extremely fortunate to source a terrific little stash of emitters for this project.
For comparison, SureFire rates the M3 LOLA at 125 lumens for 60 minutes, and the M3 HOLA at 225 lumens for 20 minutes. The M180-KL2 compares favorably with its 180 lumens regulated for 150+ minutes.
In the photo above of my front porch, the image to left is of course the baseline, unilluminated porch, while image at right shows the M180-KL2 in action. Worth noting that these photos took place during midday on a bright, sunny summer day, so the M180-KL2 was competing with quite a bit of ambient light to begin with! For reference, the distance across the front porch is something along the lines of 20 feet from where I was sitting during the test. BTW, the beam color really IS that white. Note the hotspot hitting the valence over the far window.
The ceiling (not floor!) beamshot does a decent job of showing the combination of flood and throw in the M180 beam. The three emitters do a nice job of collimating into a single, beefy superbeam, and even from 3 feet out, the hotspot looks perfectly round, with nothing to give away the fact that three emitters produced it.
The posterized views (above and below) show falloff of intensity from the central hotspot outward... the photo below is a bit more closeup than the one above. Note that the oval, off-center look is NOT an artifact of the light, but rather an artifact of ME! I was holding the light slightly crooked while trying to juggle both that and the camera to take the shots. Please excuse!
For closers, a shot of the M180-KL2 doing its best to burn a hole in the carpet. It will fail of course.
I can honestly say the M180-KL2 is a true workhorse light. Best testimonial on my part is that I instinctively find myself reaching for this light more than for any other... and believe me when I say there are some excellent choices around here! But there's something very compelling about the M180-KL2. The whole really is more than the sum of its parts, and a certain synergy takes over...
It's a product of some decent engineering I guess... hope Mrs. Allmansberger won't mind!
Or maybe put in the simplest terms: I like it.
Thanks for sharing... and for the stamina in reading to the very end! CPFers rule.
:bow: :bow: :bow:
-=-=-=-=-=-
[size=+2]How To Contact Milkyspit![/size]
In general, a PM on CPF is a good way to reach me, though there are occasions when this won't work... perhaps PM Inbox is full, perhaps CPF is having a hiccup...
If you can't get a PM sent on CPF, you might want to send one to me on CPF Marketplace. I monitor both.
Or you could send me an email... I suggest you put the word 'CPF' somewhere in the subject line to make it easier for me to separate your email from all the spam...
Regarding phone calls: I don't provide my phone number publicly but if you're unable to reach me by the above means, you might want to get my phone number from a fellow CPFer, there are several who know how to reach me. Or have them call me, give them a way I can get back to you (phone number and/or email address), and I'll get in touch as soon as I can. Sometimes a call is the best approach, though in many cases I would encourage you to try PM and/or email first.
If all else fails, post in this thread that you're trying to reach me. No need for details posted here, but at least I'll know I need to reach out to you!
Note: I do use Skype, which is potentially a useful way of doing a text chat... and I can call from Skype on my computer to a phone number pretty much anywhere in the world, so providing me with YOUR phone number would enable me to call YOU. Again, the above means of contact are probably preferable, but if it comes to it, this might be yet another way!
Hope this helps a bit.
Project-M by Milkyspit: Long-Running High Output LED: Availability, Info, Photos
[size=+1]What's Project-M? (Summary)[/size]
Project-M is a family of engineered lights...
...build an LED light that combines bright output with extreme efficiency and very long runtimes. It's not about this or that magic component, but rather the synergies possible in a well-engineered (hopefully!) whole...
...instinctively find myself reaching for this light more than for any other... and believe me when I say there are some excellent choices around here! But there's something very compelling... The whole really is more than the sum of its parts, and a certain synergy takes over...
Read more in the original project post, copied at the bottom of this one.
[size=+1]Gallery (Some Examples)[/size]
[size=+1]Project-M Master Runtime Chart[/size]
[size=+1]Additional Runtime Charts[/size]
At the time Leef did his runtime test, the M180 was among the best-available Project-M lights. Since then, additional choices have emerged. One example: the M273 will achieve runtimes virtually identical to what Leef has charted below, but does so while generating 273 lumens rather than the 180 of Leef's light.
Fellow CPFer Leef took the time to chart runtime of his M180-KL2 head and the better of his two SureFire L6 flashlights. Both flashlights were running 3x123 fresh SureFire 123 cells. The charts show overall output of both lights and seem to approximate actual lumen output of the lights (divide his readings by ten). Note: according to Leef, the SureFire L6 in the test is an unusually good one.
Overall Output vs. Runtime, M180-KL2 with Various Battery Options (Linear Scale)
Overall Output vs. Runtime, M180-KL2 vs. SF-L6 (Linear Scale)
Overall Output vs. Runtime, M180-KL2 vs. SF-L6 (Logarithmic Scale)
The logarithmic scale approximates the brightness differences that the human eye actually sees.
Leef states that at the 240 minute mark, both test subjects were still generating useful amounts of light.[/QUOTE]
[size=+1]Project-M BuildAssist Checklist, Version 1![/size]
While answering a fellow CPFer via PM, it occurred to me that some sort of checklist might help folks get their hands around specifically what sort of build they might want... hopefully it will help both customer and me to be on the same page as far as where to expend the most energy in designing their light. I'm honestly not sure if I've got it right yet, but here's a start... :thinking:
1. What size does this light need to be? Is that a firm requirement, or your ideal scenario? How much of an issue would it be to build something of a slightly different size than the ideal?
2. Which head needs to be used? Either a specific head, or an example of how big. Is this a specific requirement or the ideal... if the latter, how much of an issue would it be to build something using a little smaller or larger head?
3. What sort of output are you looking for in terms of minimum and/or maximum?
4. What battery configuration would be most important?
5. What other battery configurations would you need to support, in order of importance? Are these must-have configurations or ones you'd like to have, but maybe don't absolutely need?
6. What are your budget constraints?
7. Please rank these from most important to least important: multi-brightness capability; ability to run with the widest-possible variety of battery configurations; maximal operating efficiency.
8. Are you willing to limit the potential brightness of your light to make it more stable (able to run continuously from start to finish with no heat issues, ability to operate on badly depleted cells, etc.)... or would you prefer to go for the brightest thing possible at the cost of it possibly only being able to run for 15-20 minutes or so at a time?
[size=+1]Ordering?[/size]
Project-M lights are generally made to order, which allows me to create the best-possible fit with you and your intended mission for the light. Please contact me by either PM or email...
You could also post in this thread.
[size=+1]Another satisfied Project-M customer!
[/size]
[size=+1]ORIGINAL PROJECT-M POST: What's Project-M All About? A Recap.[/size]
(Posted the original explanation of what Project-M seeks to achieve in the original thread for one of these lights from quite some time ago. As it occurred to me that many folks probably never saw it, and I don't expect them to scour CPF in search of such a thing, it appears below in excerpted form. For the complete, unabridged version, take a look over here!)
[size=+1]O[/size]nce upon a time there was an old lady who had a lot of cats and lived alone in her unobtrusive little country cottage. Seriously. In those days I used to revel in snow days, not so much for not having to go to school, but because they represented a financial windfall! In a good morning's work I could earn $20 shoveling snow at three of the neighbors' homes... and my biggest customer was Mrs. Allmansberger, the elderly cat lady.
I can read your mind, kind reader! "So what the heck does Milky's crazy cat lady have to do with high end lights?" Please, pull up a comfy chair and let me tell you, dear friend.
My father was cut from old-school cloth... "there's a right way and a wrong way to EVERYTHING, son..." even shoveling snow. I won't bore you with details but suffice to say, I was out there laboring hard, doing quite the professional job of hand shoveling (which to this day I'll defend as totally superior to any plowed or snowblown work! although also far more laborious of course) as my father had so expertly taught me... and out came Mrs. Allmansberger, clad in her signature weatherbeaten coat and black rubbers (when "rubbers" most commonly referred to footwear for inclement weather, and NOT anything sexual)... this itself was unusual as typically my sole interaction with the woman was when she reached out her split-level window to reach down with my payment... she watched for a time, then made this infamous statement: "We don't need an engineer on the job."
I later graduated from Princeton University with an engineering degree.
"So what does this have to do with FLASHLIGHTS! Show me the beef!" you say. Please, read on!
I've long been overshadowed even at PhotonFest, my own event for goodness sake! because the lights I design tend to be ENGINEERED and don't impress... my personal definition of engineering is the study and application of compromises to achieve the most desirable whole. So my lights aren't brightest, nor largest, nor smallest, nor the strangest colors, nor capable of igniting one's hair... no mine are only reasonably compact lights with good output and decently long runtime, the sort I personally prefer for a good walk through the woods or down to the quarry behind my house. The PhotonFest attendees, God bless them, are very polite... they take the requisite time thoughtfully examining my creations... then move on to the Thors, crazy supercharged HIDs, teeny Larry-inspired lights, big 22x18650 bird cooker headlight-on-a-stick mods (seriously, this exists!), and many, many more. And those lights are impressive, they're fun to play around with! I love seeing all the great stuff folks bring around. Sadly, my small milky fleet gets left far behind.
Now given all the above, which hopefully was at least mildly entertaining...
Project-M is a family of engineered lights.
I've been working on what I call Project-M for a while now, developing the concept bit by bit... folks at PF6 saw the M180, an early prototype. A few of you have even, very quietly, purchased M180s though they haven't even been officially announced prior to now. The concept is this: build an LED light that combines bright output with extreme efficiency and very long runtimes. It's not about this or that magic component, but rather the synergies possible in a well-engineered (hopefully!) whole.
Now I am proud to introduce the smallest member of the family, a very rare breed, built into some pristine long-defunct SureFire LED heads and suitable for attachment to an M3 or M6 body...
The M180-KL2. (note: as of this post, the M273-KL2 runs as long as the M180-KL2 but with 273 lumens output.)
Some basics: the M180-KL2 generates, on average, 180 lumens overall output continuously, in perfectly flat regulation, for at least 2.5 hours off 3x123 primaries or 2x17500 protected 1100mAh Li-ion rechargeables. The beam tint is XO or WO depending on specific choice of emitters. (I personally prefer the XO tint.) The head is very efficient and although it's well heatsinked, will tend NOT to generate much heat at all... in fact, even including converter inefficiency, it draws only 3.7 watts or so of power, which is less than many single LuxIII mods consume. :naughty:
Some photos...
The head is more-or-less identical from the outside to a typical M3 incan head, but inside is another story.
The M180-KL2 won't win any throw contests against the SureFire lamp assemblies and yet it IS a good thrower... on the straight stretch of road in front of my home, I can illuminate a good 100 yards or so down the road, maybe more. What's interesting here is this head ALSO pumps out quite a bit of bright sidespill, and the tint is about as neutral white as any LED that I've ever had the pleasure of seeing... was extremely fortunate to source a terrific little stash of emitters for this project. For comparison, SureFire rates the M3 LOLA at 125 lumens for 60 minutes, and the M3 HOLA at 225 lumens for 20 minutes. The M180-KL2 compares favorably with its 180 lumens regulated for 150+ minutes.
In the photo above of my front porch, the image to left is of course the baseline, unilluminated porch, while image at right shows the M180-KL2 in action. Worth noting that these photos took place during midday on a bright, sunny summer day, so the M180-KL2 was competing with quite a bit of ambient light to begin with! For reference, the distance across the front porch is something along the lines of 20 feet from where I was sitting during the test. BTW, the beam color really IS that white. Note the hotspot hitting the valence over the far window.
The ceiling (not floor!) beamshot does a decent job of showing the combination of flood and throw in the M180 beam. The three emitters do a nice job of collimating into a single, beefy superbeam, and even from 3 feet out, the hotspot looks perfectly round, with nothing to give away the fact that three emitters produced it.
The posterized views (above and below) show falloff of intensity from the central hotspot outward... the photo below is a bit more closeup than the one above. Note that the oval, off-center look is NOT an artifact of the light, but rather an artifact of ME! I was holding the light slightly crooked while trying to juggle both that and the camera to take the shots. Please excuse!
For closers, a shot of the M180-KL2 doing its best to burn a hole in the carpet. It will fail of course.
I can honestly say the M180-KL2 is a true workhorse light. Best testimonial on my part is that I instinctively find myself reaching for this light more than for any other... and believe me when I say there are some excellent choices around here! But there's something very compelling about the M180-KL2. The whole really is more than the sum of its parts, and a certain synergy takes over...
It's a product of some decent engineering I guess... hope Mrs. Allmansberger won't mind!
Or maybe put in the simplest terms: I like it.
Thanks for sharing... and for the stamina in reading to the very end! CPFers rule.
:bow: :bow: :bow:
-=-=-=-=-=-
[size=+2]How To Contact Milkyspit![/size]
In general, a PM on CPF is a good way to reach me, though there are occasions when this won't work... perhaps PM Inbox is full, perhaps CPF is having a hiccup...
If you can't get a PM sent on CPF, you might want to send one to me on CPF Marketplace. I monitor both.
Or you could send me an email... I suggest you put the word 'CPF' somewhere in the subject line to make it easier for me to separate your email from all the spam...
Regarding phone calls: I don't provide my phone number publicly but if you're unable to reach me by the above means, you might want to get my phone number from a fellow CPFer, there are several who know how to reach me. Or have them call me, give them a way I can get back to you (phone number and/or email address), and I'll get in touch as soon as I can. Sometimes a call is the best approach, though in many cases I would encourage you to try PM and/or email first.
If all else fails, post in this thread that you're trying to reach me. No need for details posted here, but at least I'll know I need to reach out to you!
Note: I do use Skype, which is potentially a useful way of doing a text chat... and I can call from Skype on my computer to a phone number pretty much anywhere in the world, so providing me with YOUR phone number would enable me to call YOU. Again, the above means of contact are probably preferable, but if it comes to it, this might be yet another way!
Hope this helps a bit.
Last edited:
. Kirk 
