Proud owner of my first SF M6! Few questions though...

RobertM

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So my M6 Guardian came in the mail today and I played with it for a few minutes outside. The MN20 is pretty awesome and the MN21 is stunning. This makes my 5th SureFire to date and I must say, while all my others feel rock solid, this thing feels like a tank :laughing:

Question time...

First, I bought it on eBay new in box. I've noticed that there are a few spots of missing anodizing on the body though. Is this unusual? Call SureFire? What are your thoughts?

Second, after reading the M6 rechargeable shootout thread, I'm planning on getting the LF HO-M6R and running it on Li-Ions. Here is the debate: should I run it on 6xRCR123's or 3x17670's in an FM holder? What runtime difference will I see with either setup? I like the idea of having a separate holder with the 17670's making it easy and quick to swap from primaries to rechargeable cells. Plus I'd like not having to charge 6 cells to be up and running again (only 3).

On the flips side, going the 6xRCR123 route saves me the time and money of having to track down and buy an FM holder. Plus, if I'm using a spares carrier, I can easily switch between primaries or RCR123's in the carrier and switch lamps accordingly.

So what are everyone's thoughts?

Thanks in advance everyone!

Robert
 

jumpstat

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To run the LF HO-M6R, 3x17670 better option, later if you wish to run WA1185 you can do so with a FM MN socket and you are set. Saves the hassle of charging 6cR123a unless you have multiple chargers available.
 

brighterisbetter

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To run the LF HO-M6R, 3x17670 better option, later if you wish to run WA1185 you can do so with a FM MN socket and you are set. Saves the hassle of charging 6cR123a unless you have multiple chargers available.
+1, this is the way I'd go at least. Even as much of a pain it is personally to charge (3) cells on a Pila IBC, I'd hate to have to charge (6) instead, although the RCR123's and their lower capacity would charge more rapidly than the 17670's. Just post a WTB in B/S/T for the FM 3x17670 holder and I'm sure someone will respond.
 

cl0123

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Hope it is not too far off topic, but how about using a 2x18650 setup? MN15, MN16, MN20 (SF OEM for M6), EO-3T, & HO-3T will all become available options.
solar2008101401es3.jpg


In addition, you will be re-charging only two cells instead of three. Just another option worth mentioning.

Adding that to a couple of FM MN Bi-Pins adapters, you will also find another bunch of bi-pin bulbs available to you. WA1111 bulb powered by 2x18650s is a very potent setup for your M6. I have one in my emergency kit with a spare magazine, batteries, and extra bulbs.

(Just hope to see my goodies from Litho soon, as I am running really low now)

With Aloha,

Clarence
 

Wattnot

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Hey guys, run on over to this thread. It will clearly explain all of your options.

The two 18650 option isn't the greatest unless you are planning on using the lower power lamps like the MN20 (there are others too). With the MN21 the protection circuit usually kicks in because of the enormous current draw. When you double pump it and get it to come on, it's pretty hard on the batteries.

That thread will explain everything and then some.

I'm closing this thread now since I solved all of your present and future problems . . . oh wait, I'm not a moderator!! :thinking:
 
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DM51

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LOL Wattnot, nice try!

Actually, the 2x18650 is a very good option IMO. With a WA1111, the result is about the same as the MN21 HOLA.

But back to the OP's question: the HO-M6R is also an excellent choice, and it will run OK on 6xRCR123 in the MB20 stock 3s2p holder, but as jumpstat says, the 3x17670 gives more power and more flexibility - you can also use it with the 1185.
 

Taboot

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...

First, I bought it on eBay new in box. I've noticed that there are a few spots of missing anodizing on the body though. Is this unusual? Call SureFire? What are your thoughts?

...

Robert

When I got mine, it appeared to be missing some anodizing. It turned out that it had rubbed against the package and some of the plastic had "stained" it. I used hot water and a drop of dish washing detergent (not the machine kind) and it came off. whew!

Good luck and congrats on your M6. It's my best light.
 

LED61

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And as far as utility is concerned, if you want over two hours of nice output with stock MB20 and primaries, consider JS X-LOLA, which is the MN15 lamp in primaries. This turns out to be the best option IMHO for actual outdoor work for extended periods of time. More light can easily be offending to the eyes and ruins night vision. Believe me, I've done a lot of night work in green lush coffee woods and the MN15 is the better option. It is a very white beam and has lots of throw.
 

RichS

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LOL Wattnot, nice try!

Actually, the 2x18650 is a very good option IMO. With a WA1111, the result is about the same as the MN21 HOLA.

But back to the OP's question: the HO-M6R is also an excellent choice, and it will run OK on 6xRCR123 in the MB20 stock 3s2p holder, but as jumpstat says, the 3x17670 gives more power and more flexibility - you can also use it with the 1185.

Completely agree. I already have a 3x17670 FM holder for use with an 1185, but I ordered a 2x18650 holder to use a WA1111 after seeing the performance of this bulb in DM51's M6 rechargeable shootout thread (an unbelievably helpful thread by the way!!! :twothumbs). You get awesome output, longer runtime, excellent mix of throw and flood. I can't wait to try this out.

I still have yet to get my 17670 li-ions to try out the 1185 in it. Unfortunately my poor FM 3x17670 battery holder has just been sitting there. I guess I was just a little concerned about how hard the 1185 will be pushing those batteries. Since WA 1185 bulbs draw 3.3A, wouldn't this push 1600mAH batteries beyond 2C, or at least right to the threshold?

Also, I was curious about the runtime of the WA1111 on 2x18650s at 2200mAH. Since the WA1111 draws about 3.5A at that voltage, wouldn't this put the runtime at around 38 minutes?

Here's my crazy math: 2.2 Amp Hours / 3.5 Amp Draw = 0.63; 60 minutes x 0.63 = 38 minutes. Right/wrong/crazy?? :candle:

-Rich
 
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Sgt. LED

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My favorite by far is 2 18650's running the EO-M3T.

Does not harm the bulb or the batteries and no douple tap is needed.
The white output is really nice and runtime is quite acceptable.

You dont loose throw since the bulb is not frosted and the hotspot is totally round instead of football shaped!
 

DM51

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Here's my crazy math: 2.2 Amp Hours / 3.5 Amp Draw = 0.63; 60 minutes x 0.63 = 38 minutes. Right/wrong/crazy??
Impeccable math, and that is the correct way to work out runtime. HOWEVER, that would imply draining the cells to empty, which is not a good thing to do with Li-Ions - it is always better to top them up before they drop below 3.6V resting. You should therefore reckon on ~30 mins max run-time in this set-up to get the best life out of your cells.

As to the 3x17670 and WA1185: yes, this does just squeak over the recommended maximum 2C discharge rate for Li-Ion cells. But only just, and I would regard it as acceptable, provided you do not run the light for extended periods, and you recognise that driving the cells hard in this way will shorten their life somewhat. In other words, don't expect 500 cycles out of them.
 

Wattnot

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Hope it is not too far off topic, but how about using a 2x18650 setup? MN15, MN16, MN20 (SF OEM for M6), EO-3T, & HO-3T will all become available options.


Oops. How did I miss that right there ABOVE the pic! When I was saying the 2 18650 wasn't the greatest I was ONLY referring to the MN21 because that's how I'm using it but I'm using Emoli type cells. Those lamps would be great with two protected 18650's. But doesn't that double pump thing affect the 1111 also? I see double pumping as a huge negative.

BTW, mcodoc's battery holders are great! I have two of them.

Anyway, the main point of my earlier post was to steer those folks to that other thread, which contains all of these answers already!
 

RichS

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Oops. How did I miss that right there ABOVE the pic! When I was saying the 2 18650 wasn't the greatest I was ONLY referring to the MN21 because that's how I'm using it but I'm using Emoli type cells. Those lamps would be great with two protected 18650's. But doesn't that double pump thing affect the 1111 also? I see double pumping as a huge negative.

BTW, mcodoc's battery holders are great! I have two of them.

Anyway, the main point of my earlier post was to steer those folks to that other thread, which contains all of these answers already!

I don't have my 2x18650 battery holder yet (hopefully it will arrive today:naughty:), but I seriously doubt you will have to double-pump with the 1111. AWs 17670s power up even the 1185 with no problem, and 18650s power the 1111 much more easily - I'm sure no double-pumping will be required with either the 1111 or 1185 setup, but DM51 can confirm. It's no wonder that the MN21 requires double-pumping - it draws 4.9 amps whereas the 1111 and 1185 draw about 3.5 amps.
 

DM51

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RichS is right - no double-tap should be needed with the WA1111 or WA1185. These lamps draw ~3.5A (1111) and ~3.3A (1185), and the high-current protection on AW 17670 and 18650 cells is set at ~4.5A IIRC. That is why you will need to double-tap when using MN21 or Philips 6761 bulbs, as these draw ~5A.
 

RichS

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Impeccable math, and that is the correct way to work out runtime. HOWEVER, that would imply draining the cells to empty, which is not a good thing to do with Li-Ions - it is always better to top them up before they drop below 3.6V resting. You should therefore reckon on ~30 mins max run-time in this set-up to get the best life out of your cells.

As to the 3x17670 and WA1185: yes, this does just squeak over the recommended maximum 2C discharge rate for Li-Ion cells. But only just, and I would regard it as acceptable, provided you do not run the light for extended periods, and you recognise that driving the cells hard in this way will shorten their life somewhat. In other words, don't expect 500 cycles out of them.

Excellent, thank you for the clarification (and confirmation on my math :))!
 

Wattnot

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Hmmm . . . I was sure I read some people had that problem with the 1111 also but I could be mistaken. However, as for the 1185, the following people reported needed double tapping in that linked thread: starburst, jnewel, jumpstat, mwaldron, alantch, K-T, daniel_sk and chodes. One of them was sure it was just because of almost empty cells. I'm not crazy!!:D

Okay, maybe a little at times, I'm here after all!
 

DM51

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Anyone who had such a problem may have been using older cells, which had a lower setting for high-current cut-out.
 

IcantC

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Congrats on your purchase!

I use the FM 3x17670 holder with MN61(trying to stick to SF lamps, might be more studier?).

It is brighter than the MN21(the HOLA).

Trust me there is nothing better than a rechargeable M6! You will use it all the time knowing you don't need to buy new batteries :D. I know I do!
 

IcantC

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You are over-driving it very hard, and it won't last long.


I figured you would come along and burst my bubble :D.

I read your M6 R shootout (which is great btw). I plan to move on to 1185 or the HO-M6R. Still torn over them(more output or more runtime).
 
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