Puny LED flashlights (Not!) + COLOR RENDITION Comparison

UnknownVT

Flashlight Enthusiast
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EDIT to ADD -
This thread has also evolved into a discussion of
Color Rendtion comparsion between LEDs and incandescents - starting at Post #28 (link) using a Map

Using Tungsten and Auto white balance to approximate to the way the brain would adjust/compensate to incandescent lighting -
and also using a standard Macbeth color (patch) rendering chart - see Post #52 (link).

Experiment with color removal/desaturation to compare the luminance/brightness in patches Post #59

Experiment with adding orange LEDs and using vision enhancing sunglasses as filter - Post #69

Socks - differentiating between navy and black - Post #82

Sunlight pics of Macbeth chart Post #105

Better Sunlight pics of Macbeth and Map - Post #112

Summary of position/opinion so far - Post #73

Warmer tints and Kruithof curve - Post #123
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Not so long ago LED flashlights were regarded as efficient and frugal on batteries, but only "bright for what they were" and used only for close tasks and emergencies.

Since the advent of the Cree 7090 XR-E - LED flashlights have surpassed the brightness of the typical 2x lithium CR123A xenon light - like the fabulous SureFure 6P, G2 and Streamlight Scorpion (the one used most in CSI).

In fact even the single AA Fenix L1D-CE is rated brighter than these 2x CR123A xenons - this is simply incredible and unheard of just a few years ago.

These comparison beamshots have had the color removed by deSaturation leaving only the luminance/brightness information - to remove any color bias/influence -
StairL1DceNiFocusDeSat.jpg
StairScorpionDesat.jpg

remember this is single AA battery light compared to a 2x CR123A lithium xenon light
- which is already brighter than a typical 3x D battery Kypton flashlight....
StairMag3Ddesat.jpg


With the more premium Q-series Crees and LumiLEDs Rebels - and using more than 3 volts - we have now surpassed even the typical 3x lithium CR123A xenon lights - at one time regarded as the tops and "ridiculously" bright.

Of course one can see that just from the specs - the now legendary SureFire 9P (3x CR123 xenon) is rated at 105 lumens - the new Fenix T1 is rated at 225 lumens, that's a factor of 214% - so should easily be brighter, even allowing for inflated specs.

Even on the P91 ultra High Output lamp the SureFire 9P reaches 200 lumens - BUT runs for all of 20 minutes on 3x CR123 -
compared to the Fenix T1's 225 lumens, rated to run for 1.5 hours - similar brightness -
but 4.5x the runtime on 2/3 the batteries.......

In fact the specs of the Fenix P3D's are -
Q5 - 215 lumens 1.8 hrs;
Rebel100 200 lumens 1.8 hrs

Just to put matters to rest -

Fenix T1 vs. SureFire 9P (3x CR123 xenon - P90 standard lamp)
T1_SF9PdeSat.jpg
T1_SF9P2UdeSat.jpg


Still not convinced?

Practical stairway shots -
Color deSaturated -
StairFenixT1deSat.jpg
StairsSF9Pdesat.jpg

StairP3DceQ5deSat.jpg
StairFenixL0Drb80LiDesat.jpg

That last shot is from a single AAA light - but using an AAA sized 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable 10440 battery.

I think these shots speak volumes.....
 
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Re: Puny LED flashlights (Not!)

I got rid of my incans before and now LED's are even outhrowing incans. These are great pictures!! LED's provide better more even illumination for my needs also.
 
Re: Puny LED flashlights (Not!)

Unknown, of all the beamshots on CPF, your "stairway shots" are my favorites :thumbsup:

(It never ceases to amaze me what an L0D on a 10440 cell can do)
 
Re: Puny LED flashlights (Not!)

What I love most is that with LED lights you can (with some skill with a soldering iron) upgrade them as LEDs get brighter.

A simple emitter swap doubled the brightness in my HDS lights. I'm loving the LED trend.
 
Re: Puny LED flashlights (Not!)

In fact even the single AA Fenix L1D-CE is rated brighter than these 2x CR123A xenons - this is simply incredible and unheard of just a few years ago.

These comparison beamshots have had the color removed by deSaturation leaving only the luminance/brightness information - to remove any color bias/influence -
StairL1DceNiFocusDeSat.jpg
StairScorpionDesat.jpg

remember this is single AA battery light compared to a 2x CR123A lithium xenon light
- which is already brighter than a typical 3x D battery Kypton flashlight....
StairMag3Ddesat.jpg

I'm no rocket scientist, but if I had to place those three pictures in order of brightest to dimmest, in regards to the central hotspot, then it would be:

Mag3D
Scorpion
Fenix L1D-CE

The Fenix may have more spill, but looking at those 3 pictures, it has the dimmest hotspot. It is still quite impressive and you make a good point about the brightness of LEDs.
 
Re: Puny LED flashlights (Not!)

Good thread Unknownvt! Hard to argue with the pics. Incans are dead with the exception of Hot Wires. There is no reason to buy a 2x123 or 3x123 cell Incan unless you are obsessed with Surefires.
 
Re: Puny LED flashlights (Not!)

I'm no rocket scientist, but if I had to place those three pictures in order of brightest to dimmest, in regards to the central hotspot, then it would be:

Mag3D
Scorpion
Fenix L1D-CE

The Fenix may have more spill, but looking at those 3 pictures, it has the dimmest hotspot. It is still quite impressive and you make a good point about the brightness of LEDs.

Yes this is hardly surprising because throw is mainly related to the size
of the optic. Hardly a fair comparison between the Mag3D and the Fenix L1D-CE!

Try comparing the Mag3D to a Mag with a Seoul/Cree-XRE for throw
if you want to be objective.
 
Re: Puny LED flashlights (Not!)

yes but incans will always have a special place in any flashaholic's heart, i mean, WHO is going to throw an M6 into the bin? any surefire for that matter

Crenshaw
 
Re: Puny LED flashlights (Not!)

we should bookmark this thread and have a macro to insert a link to it whenever we hear about how incans are great!:laughing:

But probably there is little reason, there seem to be fewer and fewer "pro incan" threads or opinions these days. Those who like incans have learned to make their point by supporting specific lights, that are incans but without actually mentioning that little fact, and adding other features into the mix (like a supposed "reliability" of the flashlight, which of course never includes the far superior reliability of the LED in the equation as considered against that of the incan bulb!).

Good post and very powerful pics.
 
Re: Puny LED flashlights (Not!)

Nice beamshots, VT. It's true that Incans do offer slightly to moderately superior color rendition than LEDs, BUT that edge in color rendition can only cover so narrow a gap in lumen output. When LED lights are producing 2x as many lumens as as Incans, they will simply appear brighter, in accordance to being brighter.
 
Re: Puny LED flashlights (Not!)

I'm no rocket scientist, but if I had to place those three pictures in order of brightest to dimmest, in regards to the central hotspot, then it would be:

Mag3D
Scorpion
Fenix L1D-CE

The Fenix may have more spill, but looking at those 3 pictures, it has the dimmest hotspot. It is still quite impressive and you make a good point about the brightness of LEDs.

UnknownVT,
I could not agree with you more. Please let me know if you would like to remove these beamshots. I post them only to reply to the above post.

p1fiend, Here is a picture of a Mag 4d on pretty fresh batteries and then a Fenix T1 below it. Both lights are running on 6 volts and camera settings are the same.

2112627430_50d8792f64_o.jpg


2112627500_2de93f5fdf_o.jpg


The mag will slightly outthrow the Fenix T1...both indoors and out, but it illuminates so little. Yes, the P3D is not the greatest throw light in the world, but it has a reflector no bigger than a dime. Make the light a led thrower, and their is no contest.

The new leds are great, and only getting brighter.
 
Re: Puny LED flashlights (Not!)

Nice comparison pics! Thanks to LEDs now is a good time to be a flashoholic.

A bad time guaranteed for the wallet though, as I am now finding out. :p
 
Re: Puny LED flashlights (Not!)

Nice comparison pics! Thanks to LEDs now is a good time to be a flashoholic.

A bad time guaranteed for the wallet though, as I am now finding out. :p

Actually it is a VERY good time for the wallet. To get a T1's output, you used to have to buy a SF M3 at about $250 or so. Then you had to put the high output bulb in it. That lasted about 20 or so minutes, so you bought A LOT of 123a batteries, because you changed them out every few days.

Now for $50-$80 you can have a pretty bright light that is effecient and can run on rechargables. (of course I say this as I am ready to spend $168 for a MRV SE digital) OK, its still expensive, but it is a VERY good time to be a flashaholic!
broke.gif
:mecry::cool:
 
Re: Puny LED flashlights (Not!)

Maybe a moderator could be so kind to post this thread in the general flashlight column. ( posting in the LED column is preaching to the choir ) IMHO and I fully agree with your post. :thumbsup: Thank you.
 
Re: Puny LED flashlights (Not!)

It's fun to watch a SSC P4 modded Streamlight Propoly 4AA destroy a 4D Mag in overall output AND throw. Streamlight did awesome work with this light, and especially this reflector.
 
Re: Puny LED flashlights (Not!)

yes but incans will always have a special place in any flashaholic's heart, i mean, WHO is going to throw an M6 into the bin? any surefire for that matter

Crenshaw

we won't throw them away, we just replace the heads and light assemblies:D
 
Re: Puny LED flashlights (Not!)

Thanks for this really informative comparison, VT. Wow, I had no idea that incandescents have been caught up to and surpassed by a number of not-so-overpriced LEDs. Even if you don't want to fork out the expense, you can always go the cheap route of either buying an inexpensive body to use with a drop-in or as wishywashy said, cannibalize the incan bodies. :)

The only economic advantage I'd say incandescents still have is underwater. I used a Xenon UK D8 on my last diving trip and it seemed to hold its own against a Princeton Tec LED of similar design being used by my dive buddy (the Princeton Tec LED is 2x expensive).
 
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