Quark Mini CR2 Ti.

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I wonder how many flashlight manufacturers will be out of business in 10 years?

Bottom line is if the flashlight itself is worth $99 none of this discussion of the B4L is even relevant. I'd prefer to use a rechargeable battery but I gather 4Sevens doesn't recommend using Li Ion batteries in this Mini anyway.

I know my Mini 123 is much brighter with an IMR123. I had stopped using it entirely (glove compartment) until I tried it with the IMR battery. It may be my imagination but it seems less green with the IMR too. Now I use my Mini again.

The Ti CR2 version intrigues me mostly for the keychain bling value of it but with primaries it won't be as bright. I wonder if the RCRCR2 Li Ion would toast the LED if used only for short bursts on high?
 
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I knew that it wouldn't be a lot smaller because the cells aren't that much difference. I was a thinking a little weight savings might be coming along with the small size difference. Sadly the Mini Cr2 is basically the same weight as the Mini 123 in aluminum. Joys of titanium.

I get that my lack of interest in titanium doesn't fit with most of the market. In most cases I would only buy a titanium light if it were cheaper because it's a less desirable material for most of my needs. Yes, I get material and machining costs won't ever make that happen. :nana:

An aluminum Mini CR2 at $39 and I would have pulled the trigger without a second thought. I am usually very slow to do that. It would have been my first 4Seven's light.

Even in aluminum a batteries for "life" program tacking on costs would have been something I would have opted out of if possible. It doesn't make a lot of sense for me right now. I expect my address to change 4-6 times in the next 5 years. Some of that time I will not even have an address where they can ship lithium batteries to me (and likely wouldn't have this light with me anyway.) Missing batteries, extra up front cost, and the opportunity cost of changing the address regularly would have made an aluminum Mini CR2 with B4L from a sure thing into just another option. Titanium and B4L says the light doesn't even get a second look.

I'm not angry or ranting. I'm not threatening to stop doing business with 4sevens.... er well threatening to not start doing business with them. I am disappointed that a light I was actually excited about ended up being a complete non-starter. I do get that focusing solely on my needs and preferences are not a sound business plan. :naughty: This light might be great for many. For me, no matter how well designed, or how well it compares to the custom titanium CR2 lights, it's a lump of coal in the Christmas stocking.
 
Congrats, 4-Sevens. The B4L is a brilliant move. You're a first-rate businessman. Now I'm really wondering if the spat with Eagletac was really due to issues with the lights or just purely business?
 
Flashlight_Bug said:
Congrats, 4-Sevens. The B4L is a brilliant move. You're a first-rate businessman. Now I'm really wondering if the spat with Eagletac was really due to issues with the lights or just purely business?
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Congratulations on contributing nothing to this thread.

I think that one aspect of no rechargeable batteries is that there is no reliable source for RCR2 batteries with protection circuits, and since it will be driving the LED harder, it will most likely pull more amps than you should from that size battery, which makes it even more dangerous.

My CR123 Mini is on my second set of keys, and use it sporatically, so I expect to be using the cell that came with the battery for quite a while. I do have a good sized stash of CR123 primary batteries for when I need to replace it.
 
gnef said:
I think that one aspect of no rechargeable batteries is that there is no reliable source for RCR2 batteries with protection circuits, and since it will be driving the LED harder, it will most likely pull more amps than you should from that size battery, which makes it even more dangerous.
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That is part of the issue. The other issue is that the capacities available in that size are very very small. They are 1/2 to 1/3 of the capacity of a primary. I'm not considering unprotected cells - I NEVER consider them. Not safe.

It's not just the matter of availability and energy capacity - here's another big issue.. The problem with rechargables is this - you have to keep track of the charge state - keep it topped off. I can't tell you how many times I've reached for a light (because I've actually needed it for a situation) and ending up not being able to use it because it's either discharged (self discharged or left on from last time) or the runtime disappoints and I end up having to look for a cell to replace it in the middle of whatever I was doing.

Rechargeable totally makes sense for a duty light that cycles through onces a day or once every other day. BUT it doesn't make sense for emergency lights (used possibly once every 10 years) or EDC's that you use occasionally as needed.

I tell you lithium + small + occasionally use is perfect. It's there when you need it no charge maintenance - no juggling cells off the charger or even worse waiting when you only have one cell.

You know what, I'm on my second cell in two months. Believe me I show my qmini cr2 alot on high. it's brief and momentary. Most of the time it's very useful on low and medium. I did do runtime tests with other cells - I simply set aside my "edc cell" to put back in after the tests. Think about it, on low it's four days or runtime. If you used it ONE HOUR everyday continuous on low (and you can read with the low level) that translates to nearly FIFTY DAYS of use! I think most people underestimate the usefulness of the 100 hour / 4 day runtime on low.
 
The Quark Mini CR2 itself is perfect. I was ready to order to complete my quark ti collection, then...

I saw battery4life...

-1 battery every 6 months? Is this a joke?
-Do you know how many primaries I use or how many times I recharge my li-ion every month?
-How will 1 battery every six month make a difference? 1 more hour of runtime? 1 more hour usage every six months?
-How much are we getting charged for those 22 batteries? How much will I save (or lose, in this case :thumbsdow) compared to buying them directly?
-Will I be using the same flashlight for 10 years? Or even 5 years? or even 2?
-Is this "plan" supossed to benefit the users, or to benefit the dealer? If it was to benefit the buyer, I'd like to but the flashlight alone, oh wait, I can't.
-Whats the point in sending a battery every such a long period? Why not 1 battery a week? I am sure everyone would like it more this way.

I wouldn't call it a "bonus" when we are forced to pay extra for something we don't need. I know that some will say, "If you don't like it, don't buy it" but I speak for myself and for many other CPFers. If they sold the flashlight with a pack of 20 CR2 batteries for $100, that's fine, I would still buy it. But 1 battery every six months, really?

:rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant:

Not that I would never buy again from 4sevens, I just hope to be able to pay only for the flashlight like I did all this time.
 
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SirJMD said:
Same.. a battery every 6 months is useless, since the flashlight will eat on in just 40 minutes anyway. Its a good deal for 4sevens, since they get to mail you offers etc. with the batteries.

A fair deal for international buyers, would be 3 batteries once every 6 months for 3 years, instead of 1 every 6 months for 10 years. Translates into 18 batteries for international buyers, vs. 20 for US buyers.
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Good idea, +1 on that :thumbsup:

I'm sure it would be the same cost shipping one or three CR2's in a bubbled envelope.

MiniLux
 
carrot said:
It's possible, but I don't see why that would happen. I'm running some surplus Duracell CR123's made more than 10 years ago ("expired") and I have yet to notice any difference in performance.
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Yesterday, I discovered an old Panasonic CR2 in a drawer. The price on it isn't even in Euro, so it's at least 6 years old. Expiring date is july 2011.
I tested it repeatedly with my ZTS and it still shows up at 100% :twothumbs

On the other side, I did buy some 'Panasonic' CR2's (sku.904) at DX about 2 years ago, but most are now depleted up to remaining 20-40%, right out of the package, without any usage :green:

So time of life without usage depends highly on battery quality!

MiniLux
 
don.gwapo said:
Yes, the mini cr2 ti is now available. I really love this light coz it's so small yet it's powerfully bright. I hope the tint is not green just like on those turbo's. Better yet you will received batteries for 10 years for their batterry4life program. Nice job 4/7's.
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I agree!

It will be interesting to see how compact this light actually is in person. I think it'll be even smaller than I imagine.
 
On the subject of RCR2 v. primaries, here is what I like about the rechargeables:

1. Higher voltage gives added brightness for short periods when it's needed.
2. With a DMM you can easily get a good idea of how much charge you have left. With primaries I'm always wondering if I've used 25% of the power or 80% of the power.
3. Save money over time.
4. Less impact on environment.

The negatives (less total power, have to worry about charging, etc.) really don't bother me as I top them off after any significant usage.
 
WOW!

I think 4sevens intention wasn't really to rip off us flashaholics. I think they actually have good intentions. Seriously, their service is great, products are great, prices have been suitable for mostly everyone. They tried something new, but didn't get the foreseen response they probably were expecting.

One problem I see is that the plan would seem to appeal to more-so a NONE flashaholic, not knowing where to get CR2's. Unfortunetly the people that more than likely would purchase this TYPE of light ARE flashaholics! And don't need someone forcing them to buy something you can get from Batteryjunction for a buck a piece...

If I were in charge of 4sevens I would remedy the price of the light, and option of the battery plan before they are hated on the most popular flashlight discussion in the world!... I still love you 4sevens😀
 
I think personally $99 is a good deal for this Ti light but for me the B4l problem is I will most likely burn through a couple battery's just testing the light out so I will have to no doubt order some extra battery's right off the bat. Also I like to to have spare battery's ready to go even if I don't need them, it just puts my mind at ease. So again I may order one because I think $99 is a fair price for the light itself but if all 20 battery's was offered up front their would be no maybe I would go ahead and order one.
 
I have to say I'm in the camp that wishes for an aluminum model priced in line with the other MiNi's. Throw in 5 batteries packed with the light and I'd probably buy it for $50. For Ti light collectors I'm sure it's a great deal as it stands, but I'll be passing on it. I much prefer to save money for the future lights I know I'll be wanting.

Geoff
 
Well, I couldn't hold out any longer - I pulled the trigger on this bad boy! Did anyone notice that the MiNi Ti has the Aeon beat on overall compact-ness?

The Aeon measures 18.5mm x 55mm. The MiNi Ti is 19.0mm x 50.8mm. So the MiNi is only 0.5mm (3%) thicker but more than 4mm (7%) shorter! I honestly didn't think a CR2 light could get much smaller than the Aeon. The surprising thing about this is that the MiNi has flared top/bottom built into the design for better grip and handling, and still manages to be only 1/2 a mm thicker. This thing is going to be tiny.....
 
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richardcpf said:
If they sold the flashlight with a pack of 20 CR2 batteries for $100, that's fine, I would still buy it. But 1 battery every six months, really?
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This is the side of the fence I sit too.

I could really do with a little bottom of the pocket torch at the moment. My Quark 123 is just a bit too big for the backup pouch that it lives in inside my pocket. The thing is that I just won't feel comfortable buying the new teensy MiNi with the programmed battery supply arrangement tacked on and here's the story of why.

With AA's I always felt comfortable that if I was stuck with a dead rechargeable battery and no power to run the charger that there was always that pile of lithium primaries I kept on the shelf so I'd never be without the torch's light for more than a few minutes.

When I moved, a little reluctantly, to rechargeable 123's and 17670's in torches I stocked up on a bunch of 20 4sevens primary batteries to make sure I had that comfortable feeling again through knowing that if the power went out and I could not recharge my batteries that there was always a sizeable stock of primaries to last me until I could next get an order filled or the power came back on.

In buying the new teensy MiNi I would not be comfortable knowing that my next battery was coming in the mail as a singular unit at a time that was not under my immediate control and that would lead me to needing to buy another upfront stock of twenty or so CR2's from some retailer somewhere just so I knew I would not get caught short. Doing that would then render the 4sevens battery program somewhat redundant for me.

Not having that stock of batteries on the shelf would make me reluctant to use the torch because in the back of my head I'd always be trying to conserve the battery power. That would remind me of my days when I ran my torches on only AA lithiums at twenty bucks for four and would take the enjoyment out of having it.

The torch itself looks good but I'd just rather my "deal included" twenty batteries to be supplied up front. 4sevens probably won't lose a sale from me though because it will likely force me to go back to plan A which was simply to buy the already very small 123 aluminium MiNi for which I already have a stock of batteries. My wallet would be happier too.
 
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Have to do the volume on that calculation. Going to bed though. Pretty darn close, but the Aeon might have it beat just by looking at the numbers.
 
So I am a noob but the CR2 format is perfect for my EDC. Don't get why everyone is b*^&*&% about the bfl. As far as I am concerned this light has the potential to meet my needs and I like Ti. Not quite up for paying 4+ for a ti aeon. For me and many others that and many others that like this light. The batteries are a bonus. $100 for this light is not a bad deal. If you can't afford it buy the Night Core.
 
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