R.O.P. Roar of the Pelican mini-FAQ II

[jasonck08]

I'm going to be making a unique 3D ROP soon. Instead of using 6x AA's or 6D's, I'm going to be using 6x 2/3A Elite 1500mah cells. They 6 fit easily in a 3D mag, and you don't have to buy an expensive AA to D adaptor, you can make one out of PVC. The capacity of the 2/3 Elite cells are almost as much as the AA's yet they are much smaller.

2/3A Elite 1500 = $1.99
AA Elite 1700 = $2.99

The 2/3A's are a fair amount cheaper!

 

[nbp]

There is tons of info on these types of questions like here

For me I'm running a 6AA>2D with Eneloops like many others are, and you should get mannnny hours of use out of the bulb. Probably there was something wrong with your bulb. Did you touch it with oily fingers before installing it? Evidently that can cause bulbs to overheat and blow...I'm sure someone should be along with more knowledge soon, but the point is that 30 min runtime before the bulb blew means there was something wrong because that's not supposed to happen.

 

[45/70]

is it normal for the high big D bulb to last only half an hour? it doesnt seem worth building if i have to replace thet bulb as often as i replace the batteries.

I think .... maybe.... you misread KiwiMark's post. He was using a 4D M@g krypton 4.8 Volt bulb or, at least that was my impression.

Anyway, I don't use a stopwatch or anything, but I get about 10-15 hrs out of the 3854H. That's @ 7.2 Volt, with CBP 1650's or Elite 1700 AA's.

Dave

 

[KiwiMark]

I think .... maybe.... you misread KiwiMark's post. He was using a 4D M@g krypton 4.8 Volt bulb or, at least that was my impression.

Anyway, I don't use a stopwatch or anything, but I get about 10-15 hrs out of the 3854H. That's @ 7.2 Volt, with CBP 1650's or Elite 1700 AA's.

Dave

You are correct, my post was about my Maglite 4 cell bulb over driven by quite a bit. I didn't click that supersund was referring to my post.

10-15 hours doesn't seem like a great lifespan, but it is not horrible. I am anxiously awaiting my 2 pairs of 3854 bulbs that were sent out from Lighthound a couple of days ago. I am going to try the ROP Low off 2 18650 cells initially and the ROP High off 6 x D NiCad Cells. Both should run for maybe somewhere near an hour per charge, more than 40 minutes at least.

 

[45/70]

10-15 hours doesn't seem like a great lifespan, but it is not horrible. I am anxiously awaiting my 2 pairs of 3854 bulbs that were sent out from Lighthound a couple of days ago. I am going to try the ROP Low off 2 18650 cells initially and the ROP High off 6 x D NiCad Cells.

I should point out that I have always let the the 1650's or 1700's rest at least a hour to get that longevity. You might do OK, with eneloops in the 6xNiMH setup hot off the charger, and I'm sure any of the high capacity NiMH AA's, even the Powerex, Sanyo 2500-2700's, as they really don't cut it in an ROP to start with. Unlike the 1650-1700's and to some extent, the eneloop's, they can't hold 1.2 Volts per cell @ the 4.0+ Amp draw of the ROP. Great for longer runtime, I guess, but not as bright, and quite a bit yellower in color. With all this in mind, I'd definitely, let your D cells rest a bit before firing up your 6 D ROP, to get the best longevity from the 3854H, as their voltage holds up a bit better than the 1650-1700 AA's @ 4 Amps.

Also, the 3854L is being overdriven in the 6x NiMH ROP a bit more than the 3854H. I don't run it with the hobby batteries at all, standard NiMH work the best for it, and eneloop's would probably be OK, maybe with a rest. It will run with the high discharge rate batteries, but it's really white, and I can't imagine it lasting very long.

Dave

 

[KiwiMark]

It must be time for a progress update:
I have tried out a ROP High, ROP Low & WA1111 due to a bunch of stuff arriving in the mail.

ROP High:
Working well on a 6D Maglite I purchased 2nd hand for a good price, using 6 x 4000mAh Ni-Cd D cells.

I also tried a ROP High with 2 x Li-ion D cells - no good, the High bulb is too touchy on voltage and instaflashed. Only able to go up to 8.5V before

On the batteries that don't fry the bulb it is pretty good, lots of light & not too yellow.


ROP Low:
- working well on 2 x Li-ion D cells, is more tolerant of overdriving, able to take 9.6V before
Good light and not so hard on the batteries - I will probably get around 2 hours run time and much better light than a standard Maglite bulb.

WA1111 - worse than ROP High, can only take 8.2 before I blew 2 of these despite using an AW soft starter. Good light before blowing, but too expensive to buy bulbs to replace all the blown ones. Also the torch is too unreliable if the bulb can instaflash at any time.

Now:
I will keep using the ROP High in my 6D - it seems to be working fine from my old tired Ni-Cd cells. I will forget the ROP High for my 2D Mags running from 2 x Li-ion cells.

I will keep a ROP Low in one of my 2D Mags - good light and respectable run time, I'm hoping the bulb will give a respectable life.

I will forget the 1111 and WA1185, in fact I will forget WA completely.
I have studied the brilliant info from Lux Luthor here: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=179748 and I have decided to go to only Osram for my hotwire bi-pin bulbs. They put out lots of light and can take a lot of volts and they should last fairly well (from dozens to hundreds of hours, depending on how hard you drive them). I have found some Osram 64432 12V 35W and Osram 64440 12V 50W bulbs at my local hardware store (plenty of stock of each). According to Lux's charts the 64440 can be driven right up to 22V with over 6000 bulb lumens - so if I run it from 4 x Li-ion cells I should get close to 300 hours of bulb life and over 2000 Lumens. From 5 cells the same bulb is capable of outputing over 4000 Lumens, though only with an expected lifespan of 22 hours - but still, with an ability of taking up to 22V then the 18.5V of 5 cells should not have much risk of instaflash (especially running from a soft start driver). 22 Hours is not that bad from a bulb that costs less than 5 bucks, I can live with 25c per hour of use.

 

[45/70]

I will keep a ROP Low in one of my 2D Mags - good light and respectable run time, I'm hoping the bulb will give a respectable life.

I'll have to look into the 3854L further. Yours and Lux's findings certainly do seem to indicate that the L should outlast the H at the same drive level. All the times I've looked at Lux's results, I never paid much attention to the ROP results.

Admittedly, I'm on my fourth 3854H and only the second 3854L (which only lasted a few hours), so I haven't really given the L as much of a chance. I do know it's whiter than the H, but not as bright. I would think, just by the color, that the L is being driven closer to it's limit, maybe not. The only other thing I can think of, is my 6AA ROP is fully resistance "tricked" (switch and tail spring), and the Elite 1700AA's, are providing more voltage to the bulbs. Still, that shouldn't make any difference, relatively.

Maybe I got a different/bad batch of bulbs? I bought these from LightHound about 3 years ago. I guess I'll find out more when my last 3854H goes, as then I won't have much choice.

Dave

 

[KiwiMark]

I'll have to look into the 3854L further.

I think I'll make the 3854L my 'go to' incan light for normal usage - it is bright with good whiteness and has about 2 hours or so run time on my Li-ion D cells. The fact that it is not as bright as a 3854H or the 64623 I am going to build is not a negative, it actually makes the torch better for 'normal' usage. Once I have a 64623 going with over 150W of light and heat I really will only use it to show off and to play with - it will be far too bright and hot and have too short a run time to be a truly useful torch in day to day situations. Of course the 3854L is a very bright normal torch that most non-flashaholics would not think is all that normal, but compared to my other torches I consider it fairly normal.

I am getting some 64430 bulbs as well, not that much different in output to the 3854L unless pushed hard, but will tolerate higher voltage before . This could be my bi-pin version of my 'normal incan' light. According to Lux's estimates the bulb should last well over 100 hours (at normal 2 x Li-ion voltage), so that makes it great as a 2nd 'everyday incan'.

My biggest problem currently is batteries. I have a couple of KD 32600 cells on backorder, it has now been over a month since I ordered them. I have a KD 2x32600 pack and it works fine with my 3854L, Malkoff Drop-in and it should work OK with a 64430 - so I have ordered a few more. But the KD protection circuit seems to be pretty weak and wont run anything that pulls higher current like 50W or more.

I have inquired with AW about the idea of him making a limited run of IMR 32400 cells - they would be capable of running almost anything and you could fit more cells in any given torch. I would be able to run 4 cells in a 2.5D Maglite (I have a couple of fivemega 38mm extension tubes). Unfortunately AW is not currently planning on making these cells at this stage. This is a pity because they would be hard to beat for powering Mag D hotwires. If he makes some IMR C cells I will get a few of them, they should have enough current and capacity to do a decent job and I could probably squeeze 4 cells into a 3D Maglite (maybe de-anodise the tailcap and put a small spring in).

 

[45/70]

I have inquired with AW about the idea of him making a limited run of IMR 32400 cells - they would be capable of running almost anything and you could fit more cells in any given torch. I would be able to run 4 cells in a 2.5D Maglite (I have a couple of fivemega 38mm extension tubes).

Ya, now that would be something I'd be interested in! I prefer torches no bigger than a 2D M@g though. A 2D Li-Ion equipped ROP with IMR's, would definitely work well for me.

I'm mostly an LED "Pocket Light" guy. The smaller the better, for the most part. I, still, have a weak spot for hotwires though. My ROP and my Streamlight Strion (pocketable) are the most used of the few I have. I live out in the country, and to me, there's nothing better to really see something with, than an incan, provided, it has some actual light coming out of it.

As far as "playing" with incans, I rely on my 2D, 15.6V M@g 623. Quite impressive, to me anyway, but the 7-8 minute runtime, and the heat, do become a problem as far as it being a "user". I also have an AuroraLite H1499, but it suffers the same problems as the M@g 623.

I'm going to try the 3854L out some more, but I think I'm going to miss the extra output of the H. I'll see. Sounds like you have some good plans Kiwi, good luck! :thumbsup:

Dave

 

[ZardHex]

hey guys...been running 2 trustfire(cheap) protected 18650s in my ROP-lo 2D for quite a few months and i usually run it on average of about 20min/week...i can go almost a month before the protection on the batts kick in and i have to recharge...my vmm tests them at 4.15V a piece before i throw them back in the light (draws about 2.0A at the tailcap.) I've been running this config since the summer and no problems...the hi-bulb has been more problematic whereas the TF's protection prevents the startup current it needs to fire...i managed to get a couple of 1700mAH 18650's out of a recycled Dell laptop battery to get a few faint sparks from it but thats about it...the 3854H is a current hog that seems like it needs the higher quality protected/unprotected li-ion cells(rested down to about 8V) to work...it will fire on a cheap 6V SLA i salvaged from a bargain bin 55W lantern, but not too bright and the battery wont last more than 5min due to the battery's low-quality (not Pelican's fault, still a great bulb from what most the ROP-Hi owners are praising) Oh, to have the money for $100+ for nimh's and a smart charger :shrug:

...just my $0.02

 

[KiwiMark]

Ya, now that would be something I'd be interested in! I prefer torches no bigger than a 2D M@g though. A 2D Li-Ion equipped ROP with IMR's, would definitely work well for me.

As far as "playing" with incans, I rely on my 2D, 15.6V M@g 623. Quite impressive, to me anyway, but the 7-8 minute runtime, and the heat, do become a problem

Dave

I would be willing to add a short extension to turn one of my 2D Maglites (I currently have 3) into a 2.5D if it let me have 4 Li-ion cells. If I could get 15-16 minutes out of a Mag623 in 2.5D size compared to 7-8 minutes out of a 2D sized one then it really doesn't seem to be all that bad a deal. A small increase in size for double the run time can't be all that horrible can it?

The other project I want to build is taking a 4D Mag and loading it with 6 x 32400 cells (if I could convince AW to make them) and running this: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/218506 driver to give me control over how many volts I feed to a 64623 or 64458 bulb. It would be a bit of a big torch, but a regulated 150W output would be pretty damned sweet!

 

[Fallingwater]

I'm trying to help someone build a ROP, and I have a question.
If a 2D ROP is fitted with two unprotected 32600 LiIon cells and the high bulb, what runtimes and bulb lifetimes can be expected?
Thanks.

 

[Jarski]

How much brighter the rop would come if I do resistance mod to switch and tailcap?

This is 2D mag with FM 6AA>2D adapter and 6xeneloops. Lens is plastic and in this picture the stock reflector is inside. First is fenix ld20 turbo, then rop high.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2e5twgp.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2nssxle.jpg

Edit: Can I clean the contacts of battery adaptor with isopropyl?

 

[KiwiMark]

I'm trying to help someone build a ROP, and I have a question.
If a 2D ROP is fitted with two unprotected 32600 LiIon cells and the high bulb, what runtimes and bulb lifetimes can be expected?
Thanks.

Around an hour or so from fully charged batteries, not too sure about how long the bulb will live for though.

 

[supasizefries]

Has anyone ever had a problem with the Pelican Hi Bulb (3854) being potted askew? I just recently built a 2D ROP and the Pelican Hi Bulb that I got isn't "nested" perfectly straight. I'm using it with an M2 camless MOP reflector and I get mostly flood as opposed to a throw, and I'm wondering if this is due to the bulb leaning closer to one side of the reflector. Anyone have any advise?

 

[45/70]

Has anyone ever had a problem with the Pelican Hi Bulb (3854) being potted askew?

Hey, supasizefries, welcome to CPF!

This is a pretty common problem with "production" potted bulbs. The only thing you can really do, is bend the flange on the bulb's base to raise one side a bit when the retainer ring is screwed down. Remember, you're trying to center the filament, not necessarily the glass envelope.

Hope this helps.

Dave

 

[supasizefries]

Hey, supasizefries, welcome to CPF!

This is a pretty common problem with "production" potted bulbs. The only thing you can really do, is bend the flange on the bulb's base to raise one side a bit when the retainer ring is screwed down. Remember, you're trying to center the filament, not necessarily the glass envelope.

Hope this helps.

Dave

Hey thanks for the welcome and thanks for the advice. I'll see if I can center the filament better.

 

[Icebreak]

It could also be what I call axial focusing, IOWs the up and down like a cam would normally handle. I don't have that reflector but most of the customs I've used required shimming with thin washer-like shims.

If you are getting a comet shape that's definitely lateral focusing and can be cured just as 45/70 indicates. It may take two or three tries.

Sometimes I'll use safety glasses and fiddle with the reflector without the head on to see what looks optimal. Just for a few seconds though. You don't want to bump hot glass with a cold reflector.

 

[supasizefries]

After reading some replies to my comment, it seems that my lack of throw problems is more due to the bulb protruding to high into the reflector. I was playing around with it last night and was loosening the head so that the bulb was sitting lower. This resulted in a much nicer throw but at the cost of the head being unscrewed past the 0-ring. I'll have to try the washer shim trick to lower the bulb. Thanks to all who have schooled me in the art of ROP!

 

[Icebreak]

The seller might have shims. These little shims I'm talking about are very thin, much more so than most washers but they look like a washer. They work best inside the silver lamp retaining cap but can work outside it. Last time I got some they were from Litho123 but that was years ago.