The same happened with me...and this will be my first light beyond a mag.
What are the major differences between the two?
Ra Clicky Part 4
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The same happened with me...and this will be my first light beyond a mag.
What are the major differences between the two?
I held the #1 and #2 pre-paid slots for Ra Clicky's with Unique Titanium and
cancelled both of them.
Russ handled the refunds fast and professionally. My guess is you would find
it just as easy with Battery Station.
Can't hurt to give them a call and find out. :twothumbs
Robertesq1
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2004
- Messages
- 117
The same happened with me...and this will be my first light beyond a mag.
What are the major differences between the two?
Well if you don't want all the fancy programmable settings and just want a whoop azz pocket light that operated on a single 123 battery, I guess its just the initial 10 second burst on the clicky is 20n lumens brighter.
I don't post often and am not an expert, but the difference seems very minor and does not justiy a 130% increase in cost. YMMV but I am not a collector....
Unless my feelings do a 180, I will be canceling my order in the am....
SaturnNyne
Enlightened
Aside from the obvious slight differences of burst and output and efficiency, a lot of the differences are in the subtle details. The NT tends to flicker under certain circumstances at low levels, the Ra won't. The Ra is calibrated precisely at every level, the NT isn't. The Ra should have ruler flat regulation, the NT... comes close enough. The Ra is a bit longer due to internal springs that protect the battery from hard impacts, this makes it tougher and more comfortable to grip for some. The NT is shorter, making it more pocketable for some. The Ra uses a glass lens protected by a thick steel bezel and rubber rings, the NT solves the problem by using a plastic lens, which works fine but is more prone to scratching. The Ra will probably have a better tint, even if you don't spring for the GT option. The Narrow beam Ra will out-throw the NT at the same output, the Wide beam will probably throw about the same. That's about all that comes to me off the top of my head. Then you have the issue of the company behind the lights. The Ra is made and backed (seriously, if something goes wrong, he's got your back) by Henry, a long time friend of ours and a good guy. NT is a little on the shady side, and that's the reason I won't be buying anything else from them, even though I like my 120P and use it more than just about anything.
I think it really comes down to personal preference and at what point you're satisfied. If you can find an NT for under $100 and it satisfies you completely, go for it, you just saved a lot of money. If quirky little problems bother you, you might want to consider stepping up to a Ra. The subtle improvements of the Clicky are worth the somewhat staggering price to me, but I realize there are a lot of flashaholics on a budget who want an advanced light and wouldn't really benefit from and be able to justify the cost of the extra refinement. Though I don't personally like them, it's kind of nice to have another company offering a similar light made to a cheaper standard.
Anyone have anything else to add?
karlthev
Flashlight Enthusiast
SN, I think you've got it covered. I have a NT 120 Beta which does flicker a bit at times though not more than a minor distraction. I do feel that the HDS was better built than the NT and that the Ra will continue with that trend. I guess my only preference for the NT was the more simplistic (fewer clicks) menu but, that being said, I rarely change the programming on my lights tending to be more of the set it and forget it type. I will defer to Henry in terms of his reliabilty and stand behind his product position every time however.
Karl
Karl
I take exception to the slight on Novatac that they are shady. I have dealt with Novatac and they have always been above board. They put out a great product and they do it for a great price. I have two Ra's on order because I love the quality, but don't slight Novatac and accuse them of being shady, there is nothing to justify it.
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karlthev
Flashlight Enthusiast
A good point. I personally have not had any negative activity with NovaTac. I have dealt exclusivelt with Jim Schecter however and I know he is no longer with NT but again, I have not had questionable activity with them. I think I did read a post where they (NT) had moved at some point and tails/switches which were having isssues were returned to the senders....or am I wrong....?
Karl
Karl
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SnWnMe
Enlightened
And Saturn has a broad sampling of tests of each light to prove this of course.
I didn't know that we can put forward our predictions about an unreleased product in order ground our arguments.
Or it makes economic sense to have as much parts commonality as the Twisty as possible.
Fixed it for you.
Presenting predictions as fact.
Hey I'm a HDS fan too but I have to speak up for Novatac here. IME they are good ppl. They can't please everyone anymore that HDS can't please everyone.
See? There you go. DSFDS! :twothumbs
karlthev
Flashlight Enthusiast
I like my NT....maybe I forgot to say that....
Karl
Karl
Dead_Nuts
Enlightened
What's that noise? Could it be the sound of Clicky's in the mail?
luxlover
Banned
Saturn,
Do you see how SnWnMe is muscling into your long post territory in post #269? Somebody.....get a rope!
Jeff
Do you see how SnWnMe is muscling into your long post territory in post #269? Somebody.....get a rope!
Jeff
luxlover
Banned
Holy headlights! I can hear it too! Can anybody else hear it?
Enzo Morocioli
Enlightened
LLCoolBeans
Flashlight Enthusiast
I had a NT 120P for a couple of months before the Twisty came out. I found the Twisty to be far superior, even though I prefer the single button UI. I sold the NT and never looked back.
NT is now officially a California business, NT's are no longer made in my home town, which diminishes my fondness for them even more.
On the positive side, my 120P was the best EDC sized flashlight I had ever owned, until the Twisty became available.
I found the NT to be fine for general and tactical use, but it was lousy for walking the dogs at night. The wide beam pattern was not ideal for that use, but my main problem was that the NT would kick into thermal protection after only 5 minutes or so of constant use. The Twisty although not great for tactical use, excels in every other category. I can walk the dogs for 45+ minutes with no change in output, plus the narrow beam is a huge help in identifying obstacles or approaching pedestrians/cyclists.
NT is now officially a California business, NT's are no longer made in my home town, which diminishes my fondness for them even more.
On the positive side, my 120P was the best EDC sized flashlight I had ever owned, until the Twisty became available.
I found the NT to be fine for general and tactical use, but it was lousy for walking the dogs at night. The wide beam pattern was not ideal for that use, but my main problem was that the NT would kick into thermal protection after only 5 minutes or so of constant use. The Twisty although not great for tactical use, excels in every other category. I can walk the dogs for 45+ minutes with no change in output, plus the narrow beam is a huge help in identifying obstacles or approaching pedestrians/cyclists.
Hmm, can't hear anything - I have seen no notification from the dealer I ordered from (UT) that shipping should be imminent.
:sleepy:
luxlover
Banned
I most certainly have a lot to add, Saturn. I have held in my feelings for too long. Now that I am back to posting in support of Henry, it is time to spill the beans:
Your explanations above, which are on a technical level, are all true. I also have a light made by NovaTac. I have had no problems with it on any front. It was also my EDC for about nine months, until the Twisty arrived. But ever since I bought it in August 2007, a lot of bad news has come to the surface about the business ethic, or should I say lack of business ethic, of NovaTac. These are the reasons why I would neither support that company on CPF, nor buy their lights nor recommend them to others:
1. Just after NovaTac bought HDS Systems and hired Henry, I had a problem with my second U60 light. I called Joe Mintz, President of NovaTac, and was offered a reduced price NovaTac light when they were released, this transaction being between Joe and I. When the lights were released about nine months later, I called him and was told that he would NOT honor his promise. In fact, he had never replied to any of my emails or phone messages in that nine month span. To this day, Joe has not kept his promise!
2. During the year that Henry worked for Joe Mintz (May 1, 2006 to May 1, 2007), his creativity had been curtailed so that Joe could make a bundle on three series of lights that are far inferior to Henry's EDC models. Corners were cut to increase the "bottom line", and Henry could not exist under these conditions. He resigned, knowing that he would have to start a new company, which is currently HDS Lights (dba Ra Lights).
3. As part of Joe's offer to buy HDS Systems, all of it's parts, lights and calibration devices, he promised to honor HDS's lifetime warranty. About a year later, he claimed that all the parts that Henry sold to him as part of the buy-out, had been depleted, and the warranty could no longer be honored. He went so far as to offer a "meager" discount on his lights, in exchange for defective HDS lights.
4. Just about that time, we discovered that Joe was having assorted HDS parts sold on the website of an internet merchant, who was also a NovaTac dealer. But didn't he claim that he didn't have any HDS parts! How could this be? Needing replacement parts, EDC light owners had to buy parts for lights that were supposed to be warrantied for life.
5. When Henry found out about Joe's breach of contract regarding warranty service, he did a wonderful thing. He offered to honor the lifetime warranty service on EDC lights, even though he was no longer legally required to do so. the home page of his website states this fact, in black and white.
6. About nine months ago, Joe, whose NovaTac corporate office is in Carlsbad CA, walked into his Tucson Arizona facility and without any warning summarily fired every employee there, closing down the location. He cited the high cost of maintaining that manufacturing/warranty service facility, as the reason for abruptly ending the livelihood of six or seven people. There was no severence pay, as far as I know. Nice guy, huh?
Does anybody still want to buy a $99 programmable light from NovaTac, after hearing how unethically they have been conducting business?
To those still unsure of the Clicky.....if at all possible, cash in loose change, work OT, find a way to buy a Clicky and be done with it.
There is a thread on CPF, demonstrating pictorially, that Novatac has elected to make their lights inferior to the original design. Maybe that is why they have come down from $189 to $99? If I can find it, I will edit this post.
DO NOT SUPPORT NOVATAC IN ANY WAY, EVEN THOUGH YOU WILL BE SAVING $100 BY DOING SO!
Henry still makes the best lights available to the consumer market. Keep on truckin', Hank!
Jeff
karlthev
Flashlight Enthusiast
:shakehead
luxlover
Banned
I see a pattern emerging! Whenever karlthev disagrees with a poster's opinion, which in this case is a series of facts of which he has been aware for as long as I have, his brain freezes up and all he can do is shake his head via this graemlin. :shakehead Poor karl! "Spress yo'self karl! Tell everybody what you know!
Jeff
Bearer of truth
Jeff
Bearer of truth
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