Raise your hand if you have a LSD line of batteries

[mapson]

Rayovac is 3rd largest battery company and they even have a line. Where is Duracell (1st), and Energizer's (2nd) line?

One thing's for sure, we don't have a lack of contenders. Duracell and Energizer are both guaranteed to have a line shortly. Here's what I've dug up.

Accupower Acculoop
Ansmann MaxE
Duracell ?? TBD
Energizer ?? TBD
Gold Peak ReCyko
Kodak Pre-Charged no link, only a press release
NEXcell EnergyON
Panasonic R2 ?? Can't find a link
Rayovac Hybrid
Sanyo Eneloop
Titanium Power Enduro ?? Can't find Company site
Uniross Hybrio
VARTA Ready2use

If you guys can dig up more, let me know. Now I know Kodak do not produce their own batteries. How about the others, which do you know are just rebranded?

 

[gunga]

I think Sony has one now too. It's called cycle energy.

I run eneloops myself, good stuff, except my older Jetbeam C-LE put some big dents in the bottom of a couple cells.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Mapson,

The Titanium cells are available at www.amondotech.com .

Tom

 

[mapson]

Thanks Tom, I was looking for more of a "Company site" but I can see how there may not be any like the Battery Station CR123 cells.

 

[mapson]

Just saw packs of the Kodak Pre-charged AAs at Walmart. Pretty good deal too, $7.88+tax. Also noticed something interesting about them...saw two different colors, a dark greyish wrapping and a white wrapper. Blister packs on the white prints equal or less than 2100mah but the greyish wrapper ones claims equal or less than 2500mah.

So far, I haven't seen any that was up to 2500mah. This is the first time.

 

[mapson]

Here's what I think regarding Energizer not having an LSD line yet. Energizer rechargeables appears to be rebadged Sanyos from the past regarding the stamping on the bottom. So, either they have an contractual agreement so that Sanyo comes out first with their Eneloops and after an agreed duration, Energizer then can rebadge and have their own "Eneloop" brand or Energizer and/or Sanyo is working on correcting the 2500mah issues and will come out with a 2500mah LSD AA cell once the R/D is completed.

As far as Duracell? I have no idea.

 

[barkingmad]

Or maybe Duracell and Energizer are more interested in their alkaline battery sales still and LSD batteries are more of a direct competition than 'traditional' NiMH rechargeables...?

 

[2xTrinity]

Or maybe Duracell and Energizer are more interested in their alkaline battery sales still and LSD batteries are more of a direct competition than 'traditional' NiMH rechargeables...?

Worse than that, the NiMH rechargeables tend to perform well under high-drain applications, and if it weren't for the self-discharge, they'd be a direct competitor for 1.5V lithium primary cells, which are essentially disposables that cost as much as rechargeables

 

[barkingmad]

Worse than that, the NiMH rechargeables tend to perform well under high-drain applications, and if it weren't for the self-discharge, they'd be a direct competitor for 1.5V lithium primary cells, which are essentially disposables that cost as much as rechargeables

But with low self discharge (LSD) NiMH batteries you get the best of both worlds - think the days of the alkaline battery are numbered. I bought a load of Sanyo Eneloop AA and AAA and have not needed to buy / use Alkaline since.

 

[gunga]

Okay with LSD batteries getting cheaper and cheaper, I must ask, how do these things hold up to poor storage conditions, ie, the car?

I have a light in there with a bunch of alkalines. Wondering if throwing in a set of eneloops is a good/bad idea (glove box storage).

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Gunga,

I have not seen any test data on the effects of elevated temperature storage on the low self discharge rate cells. Rumor has it that the self discharge rate goes up with heat, but I don't know how much.

Tom

 

[mattchase]

In the name of science (and because I am curious too) I'm going to set two of my brand new Eneloop AA cells aside for a 12 month self discharge test. I will leave one of the cells on the shelf in my house, and the other I will put in my car. I live in Central Texas, and don't have a garage or covered parking (or trees even!), so my car is exposed to the elements all day long. I do put a window shade in my front window most days, but the temps are still very hot in the car. I haven't decided yet where in my car I will put the cell, I keep my flashlight in the glovebox, but am thinking about putting the cell in a more exposed location to emulate a worse case scenario.

Here are the two cells, took them off the charger about 10 minutes ago. One reads 1.434v, the other 1.438v.

I will try to remember to check them at least once per month and will record the voltage reading each time, and after 12 months I will post my results.

 

[Norm]

With the way the higher capacity nimh batteries have been failing around here 2000 mAh Eneloops might be a good balance between capacity and quality, I'm hoping so. I have been using them in my camera and with intermittent use they seem to last much longer than anything I've used in the past, also using them in a blood pressure machine (fairly high current to run the pump) same results I'm still waiting to change the first set.
Norm

 

[2xTrinity]

But with low self discharge (LSD) NiMH batteries you get the best of both worlds - think the days of the alkaline battery are numbered. I bought a load of Sanyo Eneloop AA and AAA and have not needed to buy / use Alkaline since.

I was being facetious. I agree that LSD batteries are the best of both worlds, not only will they spell the end of cheap alkaline batteries, their performance is competitive with much more expensive lithium primary batteries, as well.

 

[barkingmad]

Hello Gunga,

I have not seen any test data on the effects of elevated temperature storage on the low self discharge rate cells. Rumor has it that the self discharge rate goes up with heat, but I don't know how much.

Tom

Think the discharge rate of all batteries (including Lithium) goes up as temperature increases...

 

[mapson]

Matt, may I suggest the glove compartment or trunk for the test battery in the car. I keep batteries/flashlight(s) in my glove compartment and the trunk, I imagine very few of us would leave out batteries exposed and cooked daily by the sun in our cars (at least I hope not).

 

[koala]

hello mapson,

Do you have a battery charger that could tell the discharge numbers in mAh? Voltage reading can only give a little bit of information regarding state of charge in a cell.

 

[Eugene]

User here, almost 4 dozen Eneloop's this year. I've tried NiCad, NiMH, Renewal and gave up on re-chargeables for a few years because of the self discharge issue. between that and walmart quality chargers every time I would try to use a battery powered device it would be dead. Nothing like charging the camera a few days before you go on vacation only to have it die when we would try to take pictures. So I tried one hour to 15 minute chargers so we could try to top off batteries before going out somewhere which was a real pain and caused the batteries to die early.
So I tried Eneloops in Jan and they worked the way batteries should work, ready to go when you need them and you can charge as needed. I invested in a good MAHA charger and I'm happy now, my battery powered devices actually work.

 

[mapson]

I use the La Crosse 900 charger, a Energizer ch30mn charger when the batteries are drained too far for the 900 to accept, and the mini ZTS tester. Showed my father the ZTS tester one day, left it at his house to check a few batteries, next day he asked me to get him one.

Tom aka SilverFox is one person I go to when I have battery questions.

hello mapson,

Do you have a battery charger that could tell the discharge numbers in mAh? Voltage reading can only give a little bit of information regarding state of charge in a cell.

 

[HarveyRich]

Matt: May I suggest that you put two (or even more) batteries under each condition--i.e. two in the glove compartment and two at home, all four charged similarly at the start. A proper "scientific" experiment would require some more stringent conditions, such as larger numbers of cells, randomization, blind conditions, etc. A "quasi" type experiment such as yours would be strengthened greatly with the addition of more than two cells.

Suppose the two cells you propose to use have different discharge rates internally at the start or one "falls apart" more quickly because of some internal manufacturing difference, then you really won't know the cause for the 12 month difference (if there is a difference) and you would have wasted 12 months of expectation, which would be a shame. With an additional two cells you would have more data points. Six cells or more would be even better--two groups of three each. This is a bigger investment in batteries, but at least you'll have some certainty your results will be useful.

Harvey