RayOVac 4.0 vs Eneloops

[InHisName]

How do the RayOVacs compare to the Eneloops ?

Will my Maha C204F charger work with those ? How about my C9000 ?

How about duration of use per charge, which is likely to have more capacity ?

Should I stick with more Eneloops at 2x the price or consider these ?

 

[curtispdx]

Perhaps it's just me but the ROV's don't seem to hold their charge as long as the Eneloops do.

I bought the ROV's because they were cheap. A waste of money, I think.

 

[Black Rose]

The Rayovac 4.0s are basically Rayovac Hybrids with different labels.

Latest versions of the Rayovac 4.0s should be 2300 mAh.

They can be charged in any NiMh charger.

 

[Black Rose]

Perhaps it's just me but the ROV's don't seem to hold their charge as long as the Eneloops do.

Eneloops is superior to everything else when it comes to charge retention.

People are seeing 80% after 3 years with the Eneloops.

In my testing of Rayovac LSD cells, I am seeing 80% after 6 months.

I bought the ROV's because they were cheap. A waste of money, I think.

They are still decent batteries...certainly better than throwing money away on alkaline cells.

 

[mikekoz]

I have been reading about these Rayovac 4.0 cells for some time now, but have yet to see them in stores, let alone the 4.0a's. I have older Rayovac LSD's, and they work fine. I can not tell you how long they hold their charge though. How is this tested other than charging them, and letting them sit? How can you tell Eneloops will retain 80% of their charge after 3 years? If people have noticed them doing this, are they putting them in a light and not using the light for 3 years??:shrug: I am not trying to start an argument, just looking for some info!

 

[andrewnewman]

ROV Hybrids aren't as good as Eneloops as far as charge retention is concerned. They have an advantage of being less expensive and available (often on sale) locally where Eneloops typically have to be mail ordered. (Yes I know about "white topped" Duraloops and occasionally see those locally). While I can't quantify from first-hand experience exactly how "less good" they are, I am certain they aren't a waste of money unless you have an extraordinarily specific use for them.

For my part, I tend to store my flashlights w/o batteries in them. The only ones that I keep batteries in are my regular users (EDC, near the woodstove, in the kitchen, etc...). These are used no less frequently than once a week and the batteries are recharged periodically based upon use. I do keep emergency lithium primary batteries on hand (usually CR123 form factor) for long "no power" situations as they tend to store reliably for several years.

For LSD NIMH chemistry batteries, I suggest buying 4-packs as needed until you have as many as you think you want on hand. Try to skew the purchases by at least 4 months. Over time the older ones will "disappoint" (either fail to hold a sufficient charge or self-discharge faster than you would like). Recycle them and look to see what new has come along (if anything) to replace them. If you have lots of NIMH batteries around that get charged and then sit on the shelf unused until they have to be charged again, IMHO you probably have more batteries than you really need.

Just one man's opinion.

 

[beamis]

I had wondered the same thing, so I tested.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=252826

 

[JWP_EE]

I have not had the RayOVacs long enough to do much testing. I did one test and found that they are not the same when used straight out of the package. The 2 year old Eneloops (by date code) powered my camera for an hour and about 25 shots and were still going when I decided to charge them. The 1 year old RayOVacs lasted 10 minutes and 5 shots. I then measured both RayOVac cells and got 1.27V. I expect them to do better once they have been through a few cycles.

 

[joeparker54]

All 16 of the ROV 4.0 cells i purchased through Amazon are marked UPS-Y which translates to Nov 19, 2008 (and made in China) according to this CPF wiki page (thank you Blackrose for linking in another thread).
Unfortunately, I only discharged one package on my bc-9009. Right out of the pack, capacities were all above 1400mAh, maxing out around 1460mAh. which translates to about 67% charge retention after about 13 months. While this isn't superb, it is better than a sharp stick in the eye. Of course, this all assumes that they left the factory fully charged. Being that I have over 50 rechargeable AA's, I plan to set at least 4 aside of ROV 4.0's, Duraloops, and Meijer powercell pre-charged for 3, 6, and 12 month self-discharge tests.

[EDIT]

...If you have lots of NIMH batteries around that get charged and then sit on the shelf unused until they have to be charged again, IMHO you probably have more batteries than you really need....

Hey andrew, is this too many???

BTW, there's at least 20 other cells either in lights or on the charger

 

[Art]

Probably offtopic but I just tested the 4 eneloop AAA on my LL P7 that where charged on 1 octuber (I know this because I charged it before going on a trip) and I used the light , not much and it was left in the car until now.
I took the 4 cells out and did a discharge test on the C9000 and the 4 cells where between 552 and 557mah.

Another 4 pack of cells that I ordered with date 08 09 on them (same 800mah eneloops) I did a Break in on them and after that they where all over 800mah.

So , RayOVacs need to be very good to top this out.

BTW , my 2650 duracells the max they give is 2100 now and that is after the 2h rest the charger gives because after 1week they have like 1000mah(not tested yet but I will).

Regards,

 

[beamis]

I don't think anybody disputes the excellent LSD characteristics of Eneloops, but you have to know your use. If I really anticipate a use for a rechargeable where I expect it to go over a year without charging, then I'd probably spend the extra cash on an Eneloop. However, it seems that the Rayovacs hold up to the Eneloops as far as voltage and capacity go over the short run. In cases where I expect to charge the batteries at least once every 90 days or so I would use the Rayovacs at less than 1/3 the price of Eneloops.

 

[InHisName]

In cases where I expect to charge the batteries at least once every 90 days or so I would use the Rayovacs at less than 1/3 the price of Eneloops.

I just bought 4 - 4 packs of AAA Duraloops at last Target sale this fall. Comparing with current 4.0 prices the prices of sale items was 1:1. The Duraloops all tested on my C9000 to 810-830MAH. From above discussions, I conclude for myself that Eneloops or Duraloops are still the only way to go. Especially if I wait for next big sale. Too bad Target only restocked with black topped AAs, or I would have been full up for a couple of years or so.

 

[Elliot]

ROV and their former name Hybrid are very good LSD cells. When you consider price, I think they are a much better buy than eneloops. Are they as good as eneloops - NO. I don't understand why the discussions of three year self life matter. If you goal is long term storage, why use re-chargables in the first place.

 

[ltiu]

ROV and their former name Hybrid are very good LSD cells. When you consider price, I think they are a much better buy than eneloops. Are they as good as eneloops - NO. I don't understand why the discussions of three year self life matter. If you goal is long term storage, why use re-chargables in the first place.

Agree, I use Lithiums for anything that requires long storage life and will be there when I need it after many years.

 

[ltiu]

The Duraloops all tested on my C9000 to 810-830MAH.

I know we are not supposed to totally drain NiMH batteries, bad for their health and the Duraloop AAA is rated at 800 mAh.

So how come you are using you C9000 to drain the AAA to find out the capacity?

 

[Mr Happy]

I know we are not supposed to totally drain NiMH batteries, bad for their health and the Duraloop AAA is rated at 800 mAh.

So how come you are using you C9000 to drain the AAA to find out the capacity?

It's perfectly OK to drain a single NiMH cell completely and then stop the discharge after the cell is drained. This is what the C9000 does to measure capacity and it causes no harm at all.

Two things you should not do are to completely drain a device containing two or more NiMH cells in series as this can result in one or more cells being reverse polarized, nor should you drain an NiMH cell and keep the load on it after it is drained as this will force the voltage too low and cause gradual degradation of the cell.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Ltiu,

Perhaps we need to clarify the concept of draining NiMh cells...

When someone talks about totally draining a cell, I think that they are going to use it until the voltage reads 0 volts.

This is bad for the cell.

The design of the cell allows for use to 0.9 volts under moderate load or 1.0 volts under light load. In my mind, if you are totally draining the cell you are going beyond that, and damaging the cell.

The only way to determine the capacity of the cell is to first charge it, let it rest for awhile, then discharge it to the cut off voltage under load. The time of the discharge multiplied by the discharge current will give you the capacity of the cell.

Battery manufacturers use a series of tests to determine the capacity and life expectancy of the cells they sell. These tests are standardized. The capacity test involves charging the cell at 0.1C for 16 hours, let it rest for 1-4 hours, then discharge the cell at 0.2C down to 1.0 volts.

Now that the capacity of the cell is known, then next step is to determine the life expectancy of the cell. The standard calls for using the standard charge and discharge for a minimum of 500 cycles, maintaining 60% of the initial capacity.

The testing continues to check the self discharge rate, and cold weather performance. Additional testing can also be done at higher discharge rates, and using different charging algorithms.

The battery supplier reviews the test data, then chooses whatever capacity number they want, then they label and market the cells. By the time you purchase the cells for use, they may have degraded during storage, or they may have been optimistically labeled. This is why we spend time testing batteries. We are interested in seeing how close to the labeled capacity the batteries are performing to. With graphs we can also review the voltage under load during the discharge to help with circuit utilization or design.

Tom

 

[ltiu]

OK, thanks.

So discharge to 1.0v (and not lower) to find capacity, got it.

 

[Kestrel]

I just bought 4 - 4 packs of AAA Duraloops at last Target sale this fall. Comparing with current 4.0 prices the prices of sale items was 1:1. The Duraloops all tested on my C9000 to 810-830MAH. From above discussions, I conclude for myself that Eneloops or Duraloops are still the only way to go. Especially if I wait for next big sale. Too bad Target only restocked with black topped AAs, or I would have been full up for a couple of years or so.

Yeah, if I would have realized that the Target sale last fall (that you mentioned in your post) was as unusual as it turned out to be - 4 packs of Duraloop AA or AAA's for ~$6.50, I would have purchased more of them than I did. I'll soon be picking up some ROV LSD's for $7 for 8, shipped, which is a pretty good deal since I haven't found any Duraloops / Eneloops on sale around here (Oregon) recently...

 

[beamis]

I'll soon be picking up some ROV LSD's for $7 for 8, shipped, which is a pretty good deal since I haven't found any Duraloops / Eneloops on sale around here (Oregon) recently...

Where are you getting that deal? Adorama and Amazon had deals like that before Christmas, but those deals are no longer.