Rayovac 9v lithiums at Wallmart

[Helstar]

Hopfully this means AA and AAA coming soon as well

 

[Battery Guy]

Hopfully this means AA and AAA coming soon as well

Don't count on it. I think that the Rayovac lithium 9V batteries are made by Ultralife, same as the Energizer lithium 9V batteries.

Cheers,
Battery Guy

 

[Black Rose]

Hopfully this means AA and AAA coming soon as well

Would be nice, but not likely.

Rayovac attempted to bring AA or AAA Lithium primary cells to the US market a couple of years ago.

Energizer promptly sicked their lawyers on them.

 

[Black Rose]

I spotted the Rayovac 9V lithium cells tonight at the local building centre.

I was going to pick one up until I saw the price - $10 CDN for one

 

[BatteryCharger]

Energizer owns the US lithium AA/AAA market. Period.

Does anybody know when their patent(s) expire?

 

[Apollo Cree]

I presume the 9v lithiums are 3 cell batteries, more or less standard lithium chemistry. Getting 1.5V lithium cells is where the black magic and patents kick in.

 

[baterija]

Does anybody know when their patent(s) expire?

Well the AA lithiums were first introduced by Energizer in 1989. Given 20 yr utility patents someone should be able to introduce an exact replica of those cells now. Energizer hasn't stood still though. They have continued to improve the chemistry. Even before the Advance/Ultimate split there had been improvements incorporated along the way and when I looked before had patents granted on those improvements. A legal copy of the 1989 tech would be outperformed by both parts of the current Energizer line. Changes improving on that base tech would be subject to possible challenges from the newer patents Energizer has filed along the way.

 

[Black Rose]

In 2008, Rayovac attempted to bring AA & AAA lithium cells to the US market and were subsequently hauled off to court by Energizer. Take i

I discovered that in May 2009 (20 years?), the U.S. Federal Circuit Court of Appeals upheld an ITC verdict that the patent held by Energizer was invalid. This particular case was regarding a patent suit Energizer filed in Germany.

The patent in question is the Energizer Lithium Iron formulation.

Here is the link to the article I found.
I have never heard of this result before until I did some googling the other night. Take it with a grain of salt until another source can be located to confirm it.

If Energizer files new patents on updated chemistry (is that allowed?), they will have a perpetual monopoly.

 

[Battery Guy]

If Energizer files new patents on updated chemistry (is that allowed?), they will have a perpetual monopoly.

They can only patent the improvements. The older versions that do not contain the improvements could be made an sold by someone else.

Cheers,
Battery Guy

 

[Mr Happy]

If Energizer files new patents on updated chemistry (is that allowed?), they will have a perpetual monopoly.

It is allowed. An interesting thing is that you can also patent improvements on someone else's original invention. That leads to an amusing impasse: you can't market your improvement unless the original patent holder licenses the base invention to you; on the other hand the original holder cannot market your improvement either unless you license your invention to them. A possible solution to that is a kind of quid pro quo where you cross license to each other. That is actually one way to overcome patent restrictions in the marketplace.

 

[MattK]

Just got an email from Energizer today - they have a new lithium 9V product coming out now as well.

Pricing is basically similar to the of the Ultralife product.

 

[Black Rose]

Links to the Energizer 9V data sheets are in post #1 of this thread:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=3397216

 

[Battery Guy]

Just got an email from Energizer today - they have a new lithium 9V product coming out now as well.

Pricing is basically similar to the of the Ultralife product.

Pricing is similar to the Ultralife product because it IS the Ultralife product.

I keep hoping that Energizer will come out with a lithium/FeS2 9V battery built similar to the alkaline 9V batteries, except with six AAAA lithium/FeS2 cells.

As far as I know, 9V lithium batteries sold legally in the US are made by Ultralife and are based on lithium/MnO2 chemistry.

Cheers,
Battery Guy

 

[MattK]

Pricing is similar to the Ultralife product because it IS the Ultralife product.

Are you sure?

The Energizer lithium 9V's USED to be made by Ultralife - now I'm not sure.

I seem to remember from the Energizer data sheet that the new Energizers are imported and I thought the Ultralifes were a domestic product.

I keep hoping that Energizer will come out with a lithium/FeS2 9V battery built similar to the alkaline 9V batteries, except with six AAAA lithium/FeS2 cells.

Potential over-voltage issues for fresh cells?

 

[Black Rose]

The current Energizer data sheet is a single page and doesn't have anything in it regarding where it was sourced.
The old L522 and L522MJ also do not have any "sourced" info in them, but the specs give it away.

The thing that really stands out is that the new one has a max continuous discharge rate of 1A while the old L522 and L522MJ only has 120 mA (which is the same as the Ultralife batteries).

The Rayovac Lithium 9V batteries are Made in the USA (most likely Ultralife), so now to find a data sheet and check the discharge info.

 

[Battery Guy]

Are you sure?

The Energizer lithium 9V's USED to be made by Ultralife - now I'm not sure.

Ok, I am now unsure as well.

 

[Battery Guy]

The thing that really stands out is that the new one has a max continuous discharge rate of 1A while the old L522 and L522MJ only has 120 mA (which is the same as the Ultralife batteries).

That is a really big change. Assuming an average of 6.5V at 1A, that is a power capability of 6.5W with a capacity of ~0.65Ah and an energy of 4.2Wh. That is substantially better than two L91 cells, which when discharged at 6W have an energy of ~3.6Wh.

Put it another way: two of these bad boys in parallel could easily run a 6V 10W bulb for more than 30 minutes. Not that this would be remotely cost effective, but if you had an application that required high voltage in a small package, these new Energizer lithium 9V batteries might be the ticket.

That is extremely impressive performance for a 9V battery. Anyone take one of these apart yet to see what makes it tick?

Cheers,
Battery Guy

 

[Black Rose]

That is extremely impressive performance for a 9V battery. Anyone take one of these apart yet to see what makes it tick?

I don't think any of the new Energizers have been found "in the wild" yet.

 

[BigusLightus]

I bought the Energizer "Advanced" 9V Lithium from Home Depot a few weeks ago. Price was under $7! Side panel indicates "LA522" and "Made in China for: Energizer Holdings Inc."

 

[MattK]

That is extremely impressive performance for a 9V battery.

Indeed - so much so that I've written in for confirmation. The data sheet says Lithium-Manganese Dioxide...you could almost fit 3 CR2's in that casing.

Anyone take one of these apart yet to see what makes it tick?

No, we just ordered them. If you know what you're doing I'd be happy to send you some for disassembly and photography - assuming you know how to accomplish this safely.