Rayovac PS3: Multiple Versions? Parallel Charging? Specs?

[TakeTheActive]

Around Thanksgiving 2008, I got the "Need More Rechargeable Battery Info" BUG. 🤢 I've been using rechargeables since the days of the GE NiCds in the late 80s. In fact, I 'buried' (aka recycled 😉 ) my last D cell about a year ago and I still have 3 C cells and 2 AAA cells in service. The absolute *BEST* place that I've found, so far, for 'Rechargeable Battery Info' is RIGHT HERE! :thumbsup:

Thus, I've been reading the CPF Archives for several hours each week and just recently started my Sig LINK List of 'Notes'. Earlier, I read a new a discussion of charging 2 cells together - Series vs Parallel (I have several OLD 'Series' 2-cell-per-channel DUMB chargers here to confirm how POORLY they work) - and that got me thinking. The ROV PS3 appears to be PARALLEL (which I never paid attention to xx years ago when I bought it). No wonder it cooked so many AA/AAA cells. 😱

Thus, a few questions for the 'old-timers' with PS3s:

• Were there multiple versions?
  - Searching the CPF Archives, I see posts indicating that it charges 9V. Mine doesn't. AAA, AA, C and D only.
  .
• What does it terminate on?
  - I see many posts indicating DeltaV. How about Peak Voltage and/or Max Time? (I don't see any metal contacts for Max Temp). I've seen a few posts indicating pre-mature termination for D cells. Timer? If so, how long?
  .
• At 470mA, I won't use it any more for any AAs, since it's above 0.1C and below 0.5C, but maybe for SINGLE (1 per channel) AAAs (0.58 - 0.67C) when both my BC-900 and MH-C9000 are busy. Any problem, besides the higher current, in doing this?

Thanks! 🙂

 

[TakeTheActive]

{BUMP!}: Rayovac PS3: Multiple Versions? Parallel Charging? Specs?



UPDATE:

My OLD Rayovac PS3 is one of the many OLD chargers that I recently moved out of my UNHEATED basement and up to my HEATED den to 'experiment with' 😉. Being able to watch it (and touch it) fairly continuously throughout the day, I've learned a few things:

• It appears to have a Max Time, via an inconsistent RC combo, of ~9 hours.
  - While charging 'empty' 6000mAh NiMH D cells (discharged for 10+ hours @ 500mA on a RadioShack #23-428 Universal Battery Charger), it's gone off anywhere between ~8.5 and ~9.5hrs (Micronta #63-884 LCD Clock Timer With Memory). I KNOW the cells aren't full, so I always re-start it. Unfortunately, the current is TOO LOW to provide a reliable -DeltaV and thus it runs for another ~9 hours. Oh well, 0.07C for 18 hours (8460mAh - 141%) isn't overdoing it.
  .
• It appears to terminate on -DeltaV.
  - While my 6000mAh NiMH Ds don't terminate properly with 470mA, my 'fairly good', but OLD, 1400-1600mAh NiMH AAs do. My 'crappy' AAs don't. HOT!:devil: Hooking up the OLD VOM will tell if there's a Max V, but I doubt it (unless it's set WAY TOO HIGH!).
  .
• Although it's designed for two AAAs or AAs in parallel per channel, it appears to work fine with only one cell per channel.
  - Again, the 'odd' current (above 0.1C and below 0.5C) means I need to watch it for AAs. Haven't tried any AAAs yet.
  .
• I can't tell with the 'HUGE' Ds, but the OLD 1400mAh AAs seemed a bit above room temperature after the Red LED went out.
  - Thus, there appears to be a 'Trickle Charge', but it's not noted on the charger bottom. Does anyone have the specifications?
  .
• Next step is to dig out an OLD VOM from the basement and monitor first the current, then the voltage.

Where did all of the OLD Rayovac PS3 owners go? :shrug: Retired? :sleepy: Permanently? 😱

 

[jhellwig]

If you are talking about the ones that charged the renewal batteries, I still got one. Used it yesterday on some old rayovac nimh 1300mAh aa cells. IT missed termination on one cell. I moved it to another slot and it missed again. It seamed to do that alot all the time even with renewal batteries. I never treated it well. Lots of leaked alkaline junk in it. It cooked lots of cells.

 

[Eugene]

googleing for a pic, I had an old ps3, one of the black box did nimh, nicad and renewal IIRC. It died along with the rest of the rayovac chargers I wasted $ on. I had a ps4 as well, it was the only one that survived because I stopped using it after a year when I thought my batteries were going bad then found out it was the charger that was at fault. IMHO rayovac owes me a lot of $ for what I wasted in their products over the years.

 

[redrider_99]

I'm interested in the older version of this charger as well since I have one.

I'm considering buying a new charger because I don't know what this one is doing and don't want to unnecessarily abuse new LSD batteries that I'm going to start accumulating.

If this one will reliably charge and stop charging these types of cells, I'd just stick with it, it just seems like on my standard 1800mAH NiMH cells it's running all the way into the timer limit before the LED goes out on them. But I have seen at least one LED go out before the others so it gives me some confidence that it's doing something cell-specific.

My question is, one 1800mAH AA in each slot charging at 470mA per slot wouldn't take ~ 9 hours to charge, would it? Is the charger dropping to a trickle/top-off charge but leaving the LED on? Or is it just missing the termination completely and hitting the timer shut off?

Also, more on-topic, there does seem to be several chargers that Rayovac called the PS3. I'll take a picture of mine and upload it. I'm not sure how old it is, but several years for sure. It does not to 9V and is the black brick-like one.

 

[TakeTheActive]

...Used it yesterday on some old rayovac nimh 1300mAh aa cells. IT missed termination on one cell. I moved it to another slot and it missed again...

You said the 'key' word: old

SilverFox has stated several times the importance of using 0.5 - 1.0C Charge Rates, *ESPECIALLY* for older cells that may not provide a definitive enough -DeltaV at the lower '<0.5C' rates. 470/1300 = 0.36C DANGER!

Read his 'Battery' articles in my Sig Line LINK.

...It seamed to do that alot all the time even with renewal batteries... ...It cooked lots of cells.

Are you charging one cell per channel or two?

I haven't yet opened it up to trace the circuit behind the positive contacts but since it works with just one cell per channel, I'm thinking that the odds for 'proper' termination will be MUCH higher.

 

[jhellwig]

I used to charge aa's parallel and kept batteries paired at all times. As my rechargeable collection diminished I started charging one cell per slot. I duno why I did. Just thought it was something to do or utilize the whole charger.

 

[TakeTheActive]

...I'm considering buying a new charger because I don't know what this one is doing and don't want to unnecessarily abuse new LSD batteries that I'm going to start accumulating.

If this one will reliably charge and stop charging these types of cells, I'd just stick with it, it just seems like on my standard 1800mAH NiMH cells it's running all the way into the timer limit before the LED goes out on them. But I have seen at least one LED go out before the others so it gives me some confidence that it's doing something cell-specific.

I wouldn't use the PS3 on *NEW* LSD ~2000mAh cells. I was a happy BC-900 user for the past couple of years (LOTs of 'not-so-smart' chargers before that), but I just got a MH-C9000 during the *SALE* and I like the 'Break-In', 'Discharge Only' and the ability to independently choose Charge and Discharge Currents - i.e. I can charge at 0.5C (1000mA) and discharge at 0.05C (100mA) if I want (to break up any crystals formed from not cycling my batteries for 90+ days 😱 ).

...My question is, one 1800mAH AA in each slot charging at 470mA per slot wouldn't take ~ 9 hours to charge, would it?

1800/470 = 3.829hrs. Adding in some 'lower current inefficiency' for the 0.26C Charge Rate of 50% gives 5.745hrs and it 'should' be done. Any longer and, even without heat, it's cooking the cell.

...Is the charger dropping to a trickle/top-off charge but leaving the LED on?

Not in my experience (based on HEAT, not current readings). When the LED is ON, it's charging at 470mA. When the LED is OFF, it's in Trickle Charge (I don't know that mA value, though).

...Or is it just missing the termination completely and hitting the timer shut off?

I believe it is. 🙁

 

[redrider_99]

@TakeTheActive
Thanks. That pretty much answers my questions about the charger. I'll look for something else and in the meantime set a timer of my own on the PS3 to pull cells somewhere before they're overdone.

I should probably find a relevant thread, but I'm going to ask here anyway... In looking for a 'good' 'relatively' inexpensive charger, what I'm finding recommended like the Titanium TG2800 or Sony BCG-34HRMF4, seem like charging 4 AA cells is only going to end up with a rate of about the same as the PS3 is doing per cell. Do people who have these and love them typically only charge 2 AA cells at a time?

Do I just need to spend the $40-50 on a BC-900 and be done with it to get a charger that can support at least a .5C rate on 4 cells simultaneously to make sure it terminates properly? Do newer chargers with about a .25C rate per cell terminate properly or will I have the same problem I do with the PS3 (granted, with the addition of a thermal cut-off.)

 

[MorePower]

Not in my experience (based on HEAT, not current readings). When the LED is ON, it's charging at 470mA. When the LED is OFF, it's in Trickle Charge (I don't know that mA value, though).

Trickle charge is pulsed DC 100 +/- 25mA for one cell, pulsed DC 90 +/- 25mA for 4 cells.

Back up timer is supposed to terminate 12 hours.

 

[TakeTheActive]

Trickle charge is pulsed DC 100 +/- 25mA for one cell, pulsed DC 90 +/- 25mA for 4 cells.

Back up timer is supposed to terminate 12 hours.

I found the specs (and a few member opinions) today in: Rayovac PS-3 charger cheap at OfficeMax

My 'drained @ 500mA on a RadioShack 23-428 Universal Battery Charger for ~10hrs' 6000mAh Ds were consistently turning off the PS3 LED at ~8.5 - ~9.5hrs. I'm discharging one right now and I brought a 1157 bulb and DMM up from the basement shop to 'see' if the RS is leaving too much juice behind (check voltage under load). I can't see -DeltaV happening that soon even at 510mA:

Average Main Charge Current: (Pulsating DC) AAA/AA/C/D: 510 ± 74 mA (1 cell); 425 ± 75 mA (4 cells)
---SNIP---
Back-Up Charge Termination Timer: 12 hours ± 1% (24 hours for RAM) 3 hours ± 1% for 9V

6000mAh / 510mA * 1.5 = 17.65hrs

510mA * 9hrs / 1.5 = 3060mAh (51%! I hope they're not THAT bad off.)

Thanks for the specs - I was going to PM you if I didn't find them myself in a couple more days...

 

[TinderBox (UK)]

Hi.

I still have an PS3 charger and tried it a couple of weeks ago on some NiMh`s but it seems to not detect the full charge voltage drop on some cells and overcharges them.

I will stick to my Charge Manager!

John.

 

[hank]

I just pulled a couple of the Rayovac PS3s off the dust collector shelf -- one sliver plastic with a blue translucent plastic cover (and 9v terminals), the other black plastic, red logo and white letters "3 in 1" (no 9v) -- spec on the back is identical, output "2V DC 470 ma X4"

I've got some Ebay NiMH D cells coming in, wondering if I should junk these or if they're usable; I'll look at TTA's linked collection of manuals and specs. I for sure wouldn't risk using AAAs or AAs due to the many reports of overheating cells.

Curious if anyone else has found these old chargers useful at all, and if so how you're doing it.

I've got a cheap multimeter and can check with that, if I know what to look for. Will be doing my homework.

 

[Tinkerer54]

I still have a Rayovac PS3 (dark grey, transparent lid, no red logo or white letters) that is still in service, and has been since I bought it years back. It's never cooked cells; but I've always left the lid open for additional cooling while charging. I've had good luck charging Energizer 2300mah NiMh AA cells, Rayovac NiMh 1800mah AA cells, Energizer NiMh 850ma AAA cells, and a few Rayovac rechargeable Alkaline AA cells that I've got floating around. But I've had no way to do any qualitative analysis or determine how good a job it does. Now that I'm getting deeper into high power LEDs and looking at high capacity and LSD batteries, I found this thread while looking for additional Info myself.

It does have 4 separate channels (max 2 batteries per channel, max capacity 8 cells AA or AAA), and supports D,C,A,AAA and 9V cells. At the time, it was supposed to allow mixed battery types between those channels, and supported rechargeable Alkaline, NiCd, and NiHm cells. I have mixed different capacity and type AAs and AAAs in those 4 channels, and it seems to work. I've even charged the rechargeable Alkaline AA cells on 1 channel, 1800mah AA NiMH on a second channel, 2300mah AA NiMH on a 3rd channel, and 850mah NiMH AAA cells on the 4th channel all at once. Charging times seem to be proportionate to the respective capacities.

Now, however, I've been looking at 10000mah D cells, and just invested in a bunch of Tenergy NiMh Low Self Discharge AA and AA cells, and have been wondering if this charger will handle them properly.

Markings on the Back (Partial):
Class 2 Battery Charger
Input: 115VAC 60Hz 12Watts
Output: 2V* 470ma x 4; 9V 100ma

*NO, the 2V is not a typo. Seems strange, though.

 

[Tinkerer54]

Update: I just found the manual for the Rayovac PS3 charger.
www.efi.org/specs/rayovac_ps3.pdf

 

[gebo]

*NO, the 2V is not a typo. Seems strange, though.

I have one of the black PS3 chargers and I also found the 2v spec to be alarming since it had always burnt up cells like they were free or something....
I do believe that given the // setup the voltage does not change from the first cell to the last... so why would Rayovac use such a high voltage and how can PS3 owners modify the voltage BY DROPPING THE RESISTANCE?

---

From the factory the nominal specs are R=4.25 V=2 I=.47 and P=.95
SO IF WE DROP THE RESISTANCE DOWN TO 4 OHMS AT .470 AMPS WE WOULD DROP VOLTAGE TO 1.88 AND THE POWER TO .88W
THIS IS A LITTLE BETTER! OR BY DROPPING RESISTANCE TO 3.7 THE VOLTAGE WOULD DROP TO 1.7 AND THE POWER WOULD DROP TO .795 W

AM I LOOKING AT THE MATH CORRECTLY AND WILL THIS POSSIBLE MAKE A DIFFERENCE OR FIX THE BURNING OF CELLS???

 

[Jason_m]

I picked one up and it does overcharge the cells. I suspect it watches the cell voltage to level off for some time before it decides to terminate. Just feeling the cell temperature by hand has the temperature maxing out and staying there for a couple if hours before it terminates. This is painfully evident on cells that only need to be topped up as it heats up the cells and takes two hours to terminate. It's the Platinum version which is silver with blue cover. I suspect why they didn't use neg. delta v termination on these is because of the alkaline ability of these chargers. Yes, even my new charger had rechargable alkaline stated in the manual and on the back of the charger too. It simplifies the charge ic and it probably won't be caught by most consumers. So it really is an Alkaline charger with a NiMh cooker as a bonus. The only benefit I can think of is when charging full capacity D cells is that the overcharge will be much smaller compared to the large capacity of the cells. Regular neg. delta v will be missed anyways and would have to run two cycles because of the max timeout.

 

[hank]

Yeah, I hung onto PS3s that I'll only use with old Tenergy D NiMH cells (for sale cheap everywhere last year -- light blue wrapper, lower case "e" printed on it, either old stock or heat-damaged). They're in the earthquake/disaster bin.

 

[Norman]

Markings on the Back (Partial):
Class 2 Battery Charger
Input: 115VAC 60Hz 12Watts
Output: 2V* 470ma x 4; 9V 100ma

*NO, the 2V is not a typo. Seems strange, though.

I finally got around to plugging my multimeter onto the charger. While charging a single Duracell NiMH, checking the second parallel channel, I'm seeing 1.53v. Thus, that 2v output appears to be a MAX voltage, rather than what is specifically going out to a NiMH battery. This is on a battery that's been on charge for a few hours.

Perhaps someone who knows what they're doing could use a QUALITY multimeter to check what's actually going into the battery during a charge? While the charger seems to have it's problems, it may not be quite as bad as it would seem.