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Sold/Expired Re:Advance payment for limited SF-III run. ENDED!
- Thread starter ARC mania
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smokelaw1
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Advance payment for limited SF-III run.
Nice! A new Ostar! I'll take one of those bad boys in my SFIII, please!
So, 2.9A on turbo????
What does that translate to in lumens for the top level with the Ostar?
I'm guessing that 610-700 level is at a lower level?
If this LED puts out 500 lumens at 700mA....then, you times that by just over 4, take efficiency quotient into account, remember I have no idea what I'm talking about, divide the whole thing by .84 just for the heck of it, and you come out with, uh...really bright?
Nice! A new Ostar! I'll take one of those bad boys in my SFIII, please!
So, 2.9A on turbo????
What does that translate to in lumens for the top level with the Ostar?
I'm guessing that 610-700 level is at a lower level?
If this LED puts out 500 lumens at 700mA....then, you times that by just over 4, take efficiency quotient into account, remember I have no idea what I'm talking about, divide the whole thing by .84 just for the heck of it, and you come out with, uh...really bright?
zoran
Enlightened
cryhavok
Enlightened
Re: Advance payment for limited SF-III run.
I've been trying to decipher the data sheet and here is what I've come up with.
This SMT led is similar to the Cree MC-E (and seoul P7). 4 dies that you can individually access (like the MC-E). The Seoul P7 is hardwired all 4 dies in parallel.
For this LED (and the MC-E) you willl get the same output with 3.6V, 2800mA (wired parallel) and 14.4V, 700mA (wired in series)
At 3.6V and 2800mA, this LED will produce 710 lumens
For comparison, Seoul P7 DSWOI specs are 3.25-3.5V, 2800mA 800-900 lumens. Cree MC-E M bin has similar specs of the Seoul P7.
Efficiency at 350mA per die:
65 lm/W for the SMT
89.28 lm/W for the Seoul P7
89.28 lm/W for the Cree MC-E
Efficiency at 700mA per die:
50 lm/W for the SMT
81.63 lm/W for the Seoul P7
84.03 lm/W for the Cree MC-E
Efficiencies for the SMT were taken from the datasheet, P7/MC-E efficiencies calculated by TexLite
Whereas 700mA is the maximum current suggested for the Cree MC-E and Seoul P7 per die (a guideline not followed here at CPF
), each die of the SMT is rated at 1000mA maximum. I'm not sure how many lumens it will put out at that current.
I think that is about all you can get out of the datasheet. It would be interesting to find out what tints are available.
As you can see, this led produces a bit less light (and is a bit less efficient) compared to the multichip LEDS by Seoul and Cree, but comes in a much smaller die package. This makes it much better suited for reflectors (and longer throw). I'm guessing the "doughnut" beam will be less of a problem with this LED. I personally would gladly trade a few lumens for a better throwing beam. This certainly looks like another excellent multichip LED.
Great work on finding this gem, ARC mania :thumbsup:
I've been trying to decipher the data sheet and here is what I've come up with.
This SMT led is similar to the Cree MC-E (and seoul P7). 4 dies that you can individually access (like the MC-E). The Seoul P7 is hardwired all 4 dies in parallel.
For this LED (and the MC-E) you willl get the same output with 3.6V, 2800mA (wired parallel) and 14.4V, 700mA (wired in series)
At 3.6V and 2800mA, this LED will produce 710 lumens
For comparison, Seoul P7 DSWOI specs are 3.25-3.5V, 2800mA 800-900 lumens. Cree MC-E M bin has similar specs of the Seoul P7.
Efficiency at 350mA per die:
65 lm/W for the SMT
89.28 lm/W for the Seoul P7
89.28 lm/W for the Cree MC-E
Efficiency at 700mA per die:
50 lm/W for the SMT
81.63 lm/W for the Seoul P7
84.03 lm/W for the Cree MC-E
Efficiencies for the SMT were taken from the datasheet, P7/MC-E efficiencies calculated by TexLite
Whereas 700mA is the maximum current suggested for the Cree MC-E and Seoul P7 per die (a guideline not followed here at CPF
), each die of the SMT is rated at 1000mA maximum. I'm not sure how many lumens it will put out at that current.I think that is about all you can get out of the datasheet. It would be interesting to find out what tints are available.
As you can see, this led produces a bit less light (and is a bit less efficient) compared to the multichip LEDS by Seoul and Cree, but comes in a much smaller die package. This makes it much better suited for reflectors (and longer throw). I'm guessing the "doughnut" beam will be less of a problem with this LED. I personally would gladly trade a few lumens for a better throwing beam. This certainly looks like another excellent multichip LED.
Great work on finding this gem, ARC mania :thumbsup:
Re: Advance payment for limited SF-III run.
Well Mike did say that this emitter is 30% brighter than an MC-E at the same drive level. It's fair to think that the spec sheet you're reading from has not been updated and/or Mike has attained a yet to be released higher than currently available bin (which he has done in the past). I remember looking up specs for the Diamond Dragon and the numbers on the spec sheet did not correspond with the ones Mike had. The NY-bin Diamond Dragons he recently sold are still not available through normal channels yet as far as I know. So when you think about it, a P7/MC-E's are expected to max out in the 900 lumen range and so 30% on top of that would be 1100+ lumens. That is totally awesome! :twothumbs
Well Mike did say that this emitter is 30% brighter than an MC-E at the same drive level. It's fair to think that the spec sheet you're reading from has not been updated and/or Mike has attained a yet to be released higher than currently available bin (which he has done in the past). I remember looking up specs for the Diamond Dragon and the numbers on the spec sheet did not correspond with the ones Mike had. The NY-bin Diamond Dragons he recently sold are still not available through normal channels yet as far as I know. So when you think about it, a P7/MC-E's are expected to max out in the 900 lumen range and so 30% on top of that would be 1100+ lumens. That is totally awesome! :twothumbs
cryhavok
Enlightened
Re: Advance payment for limited SF-III run.
Well let's not get too carried away. He said "I will be receiving Ostar SMT's from a PZ brightness bin which is minimum 610 lumins to 700 lumens." Given this figure, the Seoul and Cree still beat it in total output.
I'm not sure what bin they used for the efficiency figures, so those values may catch up to the Seoul and Cree.
Perhaps he meant that the light gives 30% more throw than the MC-E? I don't see how it could give 30% more total output at the same drive levels.
Well let's not get too carried away. He said "I will be receiving Ostar SMT's from a PZ brightness bin which is minimum 610 lumins to 700 lumens." Given this figure, the Seoul and Cree still beat it in total output.
I'm not sure what bin they used for the efficiency figures, so those values may catch up to the Seoul and Cree.
Perhaps he meant that the light gives 30% more throw than the MC-E? I don't see how it could give 30% more total output at the same drive levels.
Re: Advance payment for limited SF-III run.
Mike posted this:
Not getting carried way, just stating the information that has been given to us. Given the history of Mike's ability to attain yet to be available higher bins, it would be fair to believe the Ostar SMT he is putting in this flashlight will be 1100+ lumens capable at maximum output level.
Well let's not get too carried away. He said "I will be receiving Ostar SMT's from a PZ brightness bin which is minimum 610 lumins to 700 lumens." Given this figure, the Seoul and Cree still beat it in total output.
I'm not sure what bin they used for the efficiency figures, so those values may catch up to the Seoul and Cree.
Perhaps he meant that the light gives 30% more throw than the MC-E? I don't see how it could give 30% more total output at the same drive levels.
Mike posted this:
Not getting carried way, just stating the information that has been given to us. Given the history of Mike's ability to attain yet to be available higher bins, it would be fair to believe the Ostar SMT he is putting in this flashlight will be 1100+ lumens capable at maximum output level.
cryhavok
Enlightened
Re: Advance payment for limited SF-III run.
my last response, I promise :kiss:
The Osram Ostar and SMT likely use the same dies, at least from visual inspection and dimensions given in datasheets.
The Osram Ostar produces roughly 1000 lumens with 6 dies. Osram SMT produces roughly 700 lumens with 4 dies. Notice the pattern?...you get 2/3 the light with 2/3 the dies.
my last response, I promise :kiss:
The Osram Ostar and SMT likely use the same dies, at least from visual inspection and dimensions given in datasheets.
The Osram Ostar produces roughly 1000 lumens with 6 dies. Osram SMT produces roughly 700 lumens with 4 dies. Notice the pattern?...you get 2/3 the light with 2/3 the dies.
nailbender
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Advance payment for limited SF-III run.
You may be correct but visual inspection of both the 6 die ostar and the new led leads me to believe that the new LED is built on a smaller more efficient die.
When held side by side the new offering dies look much smaller. The way they are wired definitely seem different as Mike will explain as he has been working with this LED for some time.
Below is a comparison between the MC-E adn the Ostar I don't think Mike will mind me posting. As you can see there is considerable difference.
You may be correct but visual inspection of both the 6 die ostar and the new led leads me to believe that the new LED is built on a smaller more efficient die.
When held side by side the new offering dies look much smaller. The way they are wired definitely seem different as Mike will explain as he has been working with this LED for some time.
Below is a comparison between the MC-E adn the Ostar I don't think Mike will mind me posting. As you can see there is considerable difference.
ARC mania
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Advance payment for limited SF-III run.
nailbender: Thank you for the picture.
I'll be back within the next 6 hours and post more details about the Osram SMT being the better LED. I will post a picture as well. I had two computers and one has died. Now my only computer is a bit problematic and is a PITA fixing these computer problems. Please bare with me.
ARC mania
nailbender: Thank you for the picture.
I'll be back within the next 6 hours and post more details about the Osram SMT being the better LED. I will post a picture as well. I had two computers and one has died. Now my only computer is a bit problematic and is a PITA fixing these computer problems. Please bare with me.
ARC mania
nailbender
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Advance payment for limited SF-III run.
If I can help you post something Mike let me know.
Dave
PS I am saving for this awesome light only have to sell a couple more lights.:twothumbs
If I can help you post something Mike let me know.
Dave
PS I am saving for this awesome light only have to sell a couple more lights.:twothumbs
Re: Advance payment for limited SF-III run.
Hello Mike!
The optical effciency of the SMT is 65Lumen/Watt, but the Cree MC-E has
100Lumen/Watt...how can the SMT be brighter? :candle:
Oh i saw, that it just was asked...
Hello Mike!
The optical effciency of the SMT is 65Lumen/Watt, but the Cree MC-E has
100Lumen/Watt...how can the SMT be brighter? :candle:
Oh i saw, that it just was asked...
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Re: Advance payment for limited SF-III run.
Of course a 4 Die Ostar is nothing new. But the MC-E style individually wireable dies is new. It's in a smaller package as well. Having smaller dies compared to MC-E and P7 will be a big advantage in having better throw and beam profile quality.
Oh, and the old 4 Die Ostar was a 10 watt LED, if I remember correctly.
-Ed
Of course a 4 Die Ostar is nothing new. But the MC-E style individually wireable dies is new. It's in a smaller package as well. Having smaller dies compared to MC-E and P7 will be a big advantage in having better throw and beam profile quality.
Oh, and the old 4 Die Ostar was a 10 watt LED, if I remember correctly.
-Ed
cryhavok
Enlightened
Re: Advance payment for limited SF-III run.
It would be interesting to see the SMT compared side by side to a Cree MC-E with the dome taken off as it is known that the dome "blows up" the image of the dies. Perhaps they are the same size in actuality, but the dome of the MC-E blows up the image to give it a larger apparent die size. It seems that some lumens are lost without the dome, due to loss of "index matching," a property fo the dome that allows for the the greatest light extraction. I wonder if the loss makes the output comparable to the SMT :thinking:
It would be interesting to see the SMT compared side by side to a Cree MC-E with the dome taken off as it is known that the dome "blows up" the image of the dies. Perhaps they are the same size in actuality, but the dome of the MC-E blows up the image to give it a larger apparent die size. It seems that some lumens are lost without the dome, due to loss of "index matching," a property fo the dome that allows for the the greatest light extraction. I wonder if the loss makes the output comparable to the SMT :thinking:
ARC mania
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Advance payment for limited SF-III run.
cryhavoc: In regards to the MCE and Ostar SMT, no indivual will be able to prove which is the better LED until they are physically tested in a real world enviroment. I am talking about professionally assembled into a test unit and not jimmy rigged. Both pdf files are missing critical info. This is why I've gone the extent I have. If you pay attention closely, you will notice SSC does the same. For example, SSC will claim that their P4 has X amount of life but there is data missing on drive current exceeding 350ma. They claim X amount of brightness at 700 ma and 1 amp but where are the life hours for these drive currents? I see Cree doing the same thing. I really have my doubts as 101lm/W, 456lm at 350ma and 80lm/W, 790lm at 700ma per die. They specify this in detail in the Cree cutsheet. So, an M bin is rated at 430lm and K is 370lm when the dies are driven at 350ma each, specified in the preliminary pdf. Hey, wait a minute. The numbers are off already! So which brightness bin did Cree use to get 456 lumens at 350ma. They do not specify the bin. Even if it were an M, the numbers are off. Also to get the 101lm/W is a bit blown out of proportion. Testing 4 dies cramped together beating each other up with heat produces less lumens. This may work when putting 4pcs of XRE's together as there would be more space apart from the package the dies are in. So I now come to the conclusion of the term "Business Hype". Almost every LED maker uses it to sell a product. The good LED manufacturers are more conservative with their numbers. From testing MCE's I've noticed some are not as bright as others within the same brightness bin so I can safely say they are not too conservative. Moving over to Osram, I have had the oppurtunity to play with many types of their LED's and have noticed that the brightness of their LED's actually exceed the numbers they are binned at. One thing I noticed about the Ostar SMT's pdf was that it does not clearly specify if all 4 dies are driven at 700ma or just one. This LED can be driven in series or paralell. So again information is missing. To find the truth, I physically tested and came up with the result. The Ostar SMT in a PZ bin in brightness has 30% overall brightness than a M bin in brightness MCE. Also, they are completely different beast's. Osram does not use Cree dies. I hope I am getting through. You are correct about having a smaller die and throwing light further.
A pdf has to read very carefully. It can be misleading at times.
Here is an explanation of a cut sheet, what Cree used to help hype their MCE numbers. Its the best I could find:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3190/is_n13_v32/ai_20462259
I apologize to all for the extremely long post. I need to explain about a change that may take place and picked this time to do so. I am going to offer the SF-III with several LED options at no additional cost. The three LED's are: cool white/warm white MCE or Ostar SMT. I will post a beam shot using an Ostar SMT on Wednesday. During testing with an Ostar SMT, I accidentally bumped the knob of my power supply and over-volted Ostar SMT kily it instatly. I have ordered a new one from a PZ in brightness. I am doing this so people who purchase an SF-III will have the brightest useable LED flashlight for its size that won't go out of date anytime soon after purchase. It will be a long time before something in its class could be made brighter. With the SF-III I would like to give people the oppurtunity to own a very special light made in great detail both internally, externally and provide eternal service under normal use. Who else goes to this extent. Anyways, enough said.
ARC mania
cryhavoc: In regards to the MCE and Ostar SMT, no indivual will be able to prove which is the better LED until they are physically tested in a real world enviroment. I am talking about professionally assembled into a test unit and not jimmy rigged. Both pdf files are missing critical info. This is why I've gone the extent I have. If you pay attention closely, you will notice SSC does the same. For example, SSC will claim that their P4 has X amount of life but there is data missing on drive current exceeding 350ma. They claim X amount of brightness at 700 ma and 1 amp but where are the life hours for these drive currents? I see Cree doing the same thing. I really have my doubts as 101lm/W, 456lm at 350ma and 80lm/W, 790lm at 700ma per die. They specify this in detail in the Cree cutsheet. So, an M bin is rated at 430lm and K is 370lm when the dies are driven at 350ma each, specified in the preliminary pdf. Hey, wait a minute. The numbers are off already! So which brightness bin did Cree use to get 456 lumens at 350ma. They do not specify the bin. Even if it were an M, the numbers are off. Also to get the 101lm/W is a bit blown out of proportion. Testing 4 dies cramped together beating each other up with heat produces less lumens. This may work when putting 4pcs of XRE's together as there would be more space apart from the package the dies are in. So I now come to the conclusion of the term "Business Hype". Almost every LED maker uses it to sell a product. The good LED manufacturers are more conservative with their numbers. From testing MCE's I've noticed some are not as bright as others within the same brightness bin so I can safely say they are not too conservative. Moving over to Osram, I have had the oppurtunity to play with many types of their LED's and have noticed that the brightness of their LED's actually exceed the numbers they are binned at. One thing I noticed about the Ostar SMT's pdf was that it does not clearly specify if all 4 dies are driven at 700ma or just one. This LED can be driven in series or paralell. So again information is missing. To find the truth, I physically tested and came up with the result. The Ostar SMT in a PZ bin in brightness has 30% overall brightness than a M bin in brightness MCE. Also, they are completely different beast's. Osram does not use Cree dies. I hope I am getting through. You are correct about having a smaller die and throwing light further.
A pdf has to read very carefully. It can be misleading at times.
Here is an explanation of a cut sheet, what Cree used to help hype their MCE numbers. Its the best I could find:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3190/is_n13_v32/ai_20462259
I apologize to all for the extremely long post. I need to explain about a change that may take place and picked this time to do so. I am going to offer the SF-III with several LED options at no additional cost. The three LED's are: cool white/warm white MCE or Ostar SMT. I will post a beam shot using an Ostar SMT on Wednesday. During testing with an Ostar SMT, I accidentally bumped the knob of my power supply and over-volted Ostar SMT kily it instatly. I have ordered a new one from a PZ in brightness. I am doing this so people who purchase an SF-III will have the brightest useable LED flashlight for its size that won't go out of date anytime soon after purchase. It will be a long time before something in its class could be made brighter. With the SF-III I would like to give people the oppurtunity to own a very special light made in great detail both internally, externally and provide eternal service under normal use. Who else goes to this extent. Anyways, enough said.
ARC mania
I've been trying to decipher the data sheet and here is what I've come up with.
This SMT led is similar to the Cree MC-E (and seoul P7). 4 dies that you can individually access (like the MC-E). The Seoul P7 is hardwired all 4 dies in parallel.
For this LED (and the MC-E) you willl get the same output with 3.6V, 2800mA (wired parallel) and 14.4V, 700mA (wired in series)
At 3.6V and 2800mA, this LED will produce 710 lumens
For comparison, Seoul P7 DSWOI specs are 3.25-3.5V, 2800mA 800-900 lumens. Cree MC-E M bin has similar specs of the Seoul P7.
Efficiency at 350mA per die:
65 lm/W for the SMT
89.28 lm/W for the Seoul P7
89.28 lm/W for the Cree MC-E
Efficiency at 700mA per die:
50 lm/W for the SMT
81.63 lm/W for the Seoul P7
84.03 lm/W for the Cree MC-E
Efficiencies for the SMT were taken from the datasheet, P7/MC-E efficiencies calculated by TexLite
Whereas 700mA is the maximum current suggested for the Cree MC-E and Seoul P7 per die (a guideline not followed here at CPF
I think that is about all you can get out of the datasheet. It would be interesting to find out what tints are available.
As you can see, this led produces a bit less light (and is a bit less efficient) compared to the multichip LEDS by Seoul and Cree, but comes in a much smaller die package. This makes it much better suited for reflectors (and longer throw). I'm guessing the "doughnut" beam will be less of a problem with this LED. I personally would gladly trade a few lumens for a better throwing beam. This certainly looks like another excellent multichip LED.
Great work on finding this gem, ARC mania :thumbsup:
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easilyled
Flashaholic
Re: Advance payment for limited SF-III run.
Its great that you tested these professionally and are considering different options of led in the SF-III. :thumbsup:
However, please could I ask how many Ostar SMT PZ leds you tested?
Wouldn't you have to test a large sample size to safely come to this conclusion? ie. that the Ostar SMT PZ is always 30% brighter than the MC-E M-bin.
After all you said that M-bin MC-Es can vary quite a lot in brightness.
Maybe the Ostar SMTs do as well?
PS! I mean no disrespect by asking this. 🙂
Its great that you tested these professionally and are considering different options of led in the SF-III. :thumbsup:
However, please could I ask how many Ostar SMT PZ leds you tested?
Wouldn't you have to test a large sample size to safely come to this conclusion? ie. that the Ostar SMT PZ is always 30% brighter than the MC-E M-bin.
After all you said that M-bin MC-Es can vary quite a lot in brightness.
Maybe the Ostar SMTs do as well?
PS! I mean no disrespect by asking this. 🙂
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ARC mania
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Advance payment for limited SF-III run.
easilyled: I mean no disrespect to you either. I've tested enough Ostar SMT's as well as passing them out to a third party for further testing. I've also tested other LED's made by Osram and can easily say that they maintain excellent QC on tolerance where as from what I've seen on the MCE's, there seems to be more of a tolerance issue from LED to LED. I don't want get too critical. I don't want to post too much information as there are those so called information seekers here that I feel are trying to ride on my coat tails who need to do their own testing as well as coming up with their own ideas. My lights have an excellent reputation in design, brightness and, efficiency. What don't you get on the pre-pay list. Buy one and find out what I am talking about. My lights also have a great resaleability 🙂
To all, this is a pre-pay thread so let's keep it on topic.
ARC mania
easilyled: I mean no disrespect to you either. I've tested enough Ostar SMT's as well as passing them out to a third party for further testing. I've also tested other LED's made by Osram and can easily say that they maintain excellent QC on tolerance where as from what I've seen on the MCE's, there seems to be more of a tolerance issue from LED to LED. I don't want get too critical. I don't want to post too much information as there are those so called information seekers here that I feel are trying to ride on my coat tails who need to do their own testing as well as coming up with their own ideas. My lights have an excellent reputation in design, brightness and, efficiency. What don't you get on the pre-pay list. Buy one and find out what I am talking about. My lights also have a great resaleability 🙂
To all, this is a pre-pay thread so let's keep it on topic.
ARC mania
Re: Advance payment for limited SF-III run.
Thats right and i know what i am talking about...:twothumbs
Just needed to sell on of your nice lights Mike, but got two new
Mega Extreme's...
and the money to pre-pay for the SF III! :twothumbs
Thats right and i know what i am talking about...:twothumbs
Just needed to sell on of your nice lights Mike, but got two new
Mega Extreme's...
and the money to pre-pay for the SF III! :twothumbs
easilyled
Flashaholic
Re: Advance payment for limited SF-III run.
I'm certainly very tempted.
I may need to put up one or two lights for sale first and hope that there's still some available. :thumbsup:
I'm certainly very tempted.
I may need to put up one or two lights for sale first and hope that there's still some available. :thumbsup:
