Rebel EOS vs Zebralight for outdoors

[candlelight001]

Just got back from a desert camping trip. Had fun using my Fenix E01, and G2 w/ Malkoff. But at 2 am, when a gust of wind blew the comforter off my gf and I, then blew away my jacket and sleeping bag while I got up to set up the tent, I was reminded of the absolute indispensability of a good headlamp in the outdoors. Was wearing an old Tikka XP that I found under the truck seat. A good light, really like the diffuser, but I need something that will run lithiums. But now I want to get something new and good for camping and backpacking use.

So, the new Rebel EOS, or one of the Zebralights? Must be useful for general camp use as well as night-hiking on faint and well worn trail (or looking for a bivy site when I misjudge the time). Won't be using it for mountaineeing or caving or anything. I have an old EOS, but the beam is a little narrow. Heard they fixed that on the new one.

I've compared the specs online, but am looking for real world outdoors experience here.

Thanks!

 

[kwieto]

From my point of view, for the outdoors (this is my primary use of the headlamp) you should look for something which has switchable light at least with two options: flood and spot. This is why some years ago I chosen Tikka XP and Myo XP, replacing the old Zoom (also Petzl) models.
And don't bother with the lamps mounted on the head-strap like Zebra. First, typical headlamp will give you much more comfort; and second, mini lamp, run from one battery, runs out of power very fast when you compare it to the 3xAA (or even AAA) headlamp.
It is OK as an "emergency" solution, but not for the daily use of a headlamp.

You can consider some Mammut products, recently I've bought X-zoom (smoothly regulated beam from Spot to Flood) and I am quite impressed in comparison to Myo XP (which in fact is a really good headlamp). Manufacturer says nothing about the lithiums, but you can find information on the internet shops' sites that it accepts that kind of batteries.

Why using lithiums is important for you?

 

[Shorty66]

You are right, if you are outdoors, sometimes throw is really helpfull.
Though, i dont like throw on a headlamp: I like to have an uniform beampattern like the zebras have as it makes it easier to distinguish between obstacles on the trail then with a bright hotspot and some faint spill.
Also throw on a headlamp means you have to turn your head quite precise and for anything you`d like to see.

Thats why i am carring a zebralight for the head and a dedicated thrower for the hand if i need to look further down the trail or search for a biviplace offtrail.

I believe you never worn a zebralight. At first, it seemed strange to me too, like a normal flashlight with a headstrap but thats far from true.
The headstrap is really nice and as the zebras are angeld it gives you better freedom than any petzl light in terms off turning the light around.

I must admit, that for the heavier h60 (100g) the silicon headband holder might bent a little too much - it will bounce a little while running. Walking is just great. With the smaller zebras the silicon hodler is really good.

 

[jankj]

From my point of view, for the outdoors (this is my primary use of the headlamp) you should look for something which has switchable light at least with two options: flood and spot. This is why some years ago I chosen Tikka XP and Myo XP, replacing the old Zoom (also Petzl) models.

Agreed. Flood is good for working. When walking a good balance between throw and flood is good (you want to see where you put your feet AND at the same time look ahead to see what's further down the trail - or which direction you should choose).

And don't bother with the lamps mounted on the head-strap like Zebra. First, typical headlamp will give you much more comfort

You obviously has not ever tried the zebra. I have the H50, and it is absolutely the lightest and most comfortable headlamp I've ever tried.

and second, mini lamp, run from one battery, runs out of power very fast when you compare it to the 3xAA (or even AAA) headlamp.

Again, not true for the zebra. . . specs for the H50:

• Low 2.6 lm for 3.5 days
• Medium 13 lm for 19 hr
• High 66 lm for 2 hr 20 min

Bear in mind that you hardly ever use the high setting - just occasional bursts to get an overview, find what you're looking for etc. And that runtime is REGULATED. Most 3*AA or 3*AAA will be unregulated, meaning the ligth will be dimmer when the batteries are run down.

Unregulated is not necessarily bad - they will provide a dim, still useable light for hours and hours. Your eyes adjust to the reduced output, so you don't really notice it.

FYI, one AA battery contains about as much energy as three AAA's. . . but it takes rather sophisticated drivers to convert this 1.2V into the 3.6-3.7V that drives the led.

 

[kwieto]

I like to have an uniform beampattern like the zebras have as it makes it easier to distinguish between obstacles on the trail then with a bright hotspot and some faint spill.

This is why I am talking about a headlamp with two options: Spot and Flood. On the camp site I typically use Flood option. For walking too, but sometimes, when I see something interesting far away, I'm easily switching to the Spot mode.
OK, if your light don't have ability to change the beam, the solution that you have main beam (Spot) surrounded by little darker external beam (spill) is OK. But IMO ability to change the beam width is far, far better
Consider the situation when you want to lighten nearest area (1-2m around) on the camp site. If you can't change the beam width, you have unwelcome, blinding spot in the center.
Diffuser gives more equable, smooth light, ideal for lightening the camp area.

Also throw on a headlamp means you have to turn your head quite precise and for anything you`d like to see.

Yes, this is why you use it only when it is needed. And remember, that the spot circle becomes more and more wide when you increase the distance. I tested a headlamp with a 5 percent spot and in fact, when you are talking about the range c.a. 100m, it could be narrower.
The benefit of the spot light is that your lamp is not lighening anything you don't like to see :")

Thats why i am carring a zebralight for the head and a dedicated thrower for the hand if i need to look further down the trail or search for a biviplace offtrail.

The consequence is that you have to take two lamps, not one. The package becomes heavier and you don't have both hands free on the trip.

I believe you never worn a zebralight.

Yes, you are right.
The main reason why I scratched that kind of laps from the list is the power consumption. Longest running model, H60, works about 4h when you use maximum (110lm version). This is really short time!, compare it to the Myo RXP, which on the 140lm setting works 50h (12,5 times longer!)
And RXP is consuming batteries very fast, Myo XP runs 80h on the maximum setting (85lm), which makes it 20 times longer than H60, and i.e. Mammut X-zoom works 120h (30 times longer than H60)
And I don't want to change batteries every day on the camp site - it makes thing complicated and you wouldn't like doing it during a heavy rain

Also consider that the Zebra's running time is given for lithiums, and Petzl's or Mammut's - for typical alkalines.

The headstrap is only addition to calculations above.

The headstrap is really nice and as the zebras are angeld it gives you better freedom than any petzl light in terms off turning the light around.

OK, but from the other hand, the silicone holder will probably not allow to change the angle of the head as easily as in the "typical" headlamp.
Imagine that you are operating i.e. with a gloves...
Nevertheless, the main reason why I wouldn't choose Zebra or other lamps like it is that you need to change batteries very often, as well as need to have quite big amount of spare ones in the backpack when you go i.e. for a 2-week trip.
Even for a weekend camp you should take at least one spare battery.

 

[kwieto]

• Low 2.6 lm for 3.5 days

Do you think, that the 2,6 lm is really useful?
In comparison, Myo XP on the lowest setting (probably more comparable with the "medium" in Zebra) works 180h, which is 7,5 days. X-zoom works 300h, which makes 12,5 days.

• Medium 13 lm for 19 hr

Again, Myo XP on MID: 100h and X-zoom: 170h

• High 66 lm for 2 hr 20 min

And last data: Myo XP on Max: 80h, and X-zoom: 120h.
Both are stronger than H50

Power consumption for the other headlamps, like BD Icon or PT Apex are more or less between these two listed above.

PT EOS II (3xAAA, 50lm) gives 113h on the max setting (1h regulated)

For regulated and non regulated: Regulated light is nice, but it works only for some time. Most of lamps have some period when the light is regulated, then they become not regulated. The cost is that the regulated light runs out your batteries little faster...
For one night trip i probably would prefer regulated light. If I am taking the lamp for one or two week trekking, regulation just doesn't matter

 

[nzbazza]

I have the new 50lm rebel EOS and a H50, I don't have one of the H30 or H501 for comparison. I find for tramping (hiking) the EOS is the best all-round HL, the beam is a smooth medium flood, with reasonable throw. I find low good for camp tasks, medium is good enough for walking at night along rough routes with the occasional use of hi for spotting.

The H50 is great for around the camp but I don't find it any good for night hiking.

As an experiment I suggest you try running the Myo XP on high for about 70 hrs and then see what amount of light output you have, then insert some fresh batteries and compare the difference.

 

[kwieto]

As an experiment I suggest you try running the Myo XP on high for about 70 hrs and then see what amount of light output you have, then insert some fresh batteries and compare the difference.

I already did it, when I was comparing Myo XP and X-zoom.
I put fresh, half used and almost drained (red blinking control led) alkalines.

The difference is really huge. But from the other hand, if the light were regulated, after 70h I would see only darkness...

 

[jankj]

Do you think, that the 2,6 lm is really useful?

Yes, I do. When camping I use this setting almost exclusively. Perfect for finding stuff in your bag, doing stuff and stomping around camp site without blinding your friends. I use medium and high for shorter bursts when I need more light.

Of course - if 2 and 13 lumens weren't enough for 95% of the stuff I need a light for when camping then my choice would have been different.

I'm glad your equipment is working for you, and I certainly respect your recommendations - I haven't tried them, but they all are well respected lights. And you've made well informed choices to find stuff that works for you. But don't disqualify other equipment before you've tried it! Some of the points you are sceptical about:

• Silicone bracket: They work well.
• Gloves: Yes, I can operate H50 with gloves. Yes, I can turn the light in the silicone bracket with gloves. In fact, it's so easy I've never considered it a problem.
• Walking with the zebra: Haven't really done much of it, can't really comment. The zebra is not really made for walking, IMO. Stomping around camp site is certainly no problem. Walking/hiking or running I can see where I'm putting my feet, but then again I definitively would like more throw to see things in a distance.
• Power consumption: Depends on your needs. Not perfect for you may be very good for others.

And btw: Quoted runtimes are with nimh.

compare it to the Myo RXP, which on the 140lm setting works 50h (12,5 times longer!)
And RXP is consuming batteries very fast, Myo XP runs 80h on the maximum setting (85lm), which makes it 20 times longer than H60, and i.e. Mammut X-zoom works 120h (30 times longer than H60)

Notice the phrasing: 140 lumens SETTING! It is physically impossible to deliver 140 lumens for 50 hours with that kind of battery package. No way - the light gets dimmer and dimmer, it's unregulated at depleted batteries . . . Not necessarily a bad thing, but the 50 hours claim is deceiving.

Comparing run time for regulated and unregulated/semi regulated lights makes as much sense as comparing apples and oranges. These are (probably) all good lights, but they are not the same.

 

[Shorty66]

I have already used the Tikka, Tikka Plus, Zipka, Tikka XP and Myo XP from Petzl, the Cosmo and the Gizmo from Black Diamond and H60 & H50 form zebralight.

I consider the Zebras as the best lights in terms of efficiency and usablility an oxtended trekking/mountain/climbing trips of about ten days each.

First, i thought just like you: i liked the Petzls and didnt see the need for regulation. In fact i often didn`t change batterys in between the trips because i didn`t need to.
While thats nice, the Petzls only gave me very little light compared tho the zebras. Even though the tikka xp is often rated 35lumen, i don`t think, that its any brighter than the medium on the Zebras (20lumen).
The 35 lumen are measured (if ever) right at the start and are quickly down to about 20lumen. After that, there is a long period of time, where the tikka Xp gives you around 5-10 lumen. Thats brighter than the low on the zebras, but the plastic Diffuser eats so much light, that the zebras are brighter on low than a tikka XP with diffuser at about half of the runtime.

I Often use the 3lm setting of the H60 for walking at night. In rather easy terrain (forrest...) its brigh enough to prevent me from falling but dim enough to preserve lots of night vision.


I agree, that the h50 is not that suitable for walking like the other Zebras with 80degree angle of light. I think, zebra is on the right way in making every light they have 80 degree.

Once i thought too, that a headlamp needs considerable throw to get along my way. But in fact i consider the combination of two lights (using the same energy source, 14500s) much more useful.
You are right, that its annoying to not have your handy free while walking, but if you want to look further down the trail to make a dicision which way to go, you need to stop anyway. And a handheld thrower is much easier to operate than a headlamp with throw. As you already mentioned, most headlamps which include Throw do not htrow that well. They do throw, but a dedicated thrower is much more usable on the trail as you sometimes just need some really good throw which a headlamp just wont deliver.

In addition, if you are carring to lights (which doesnt have to be any heavier than those bulky topstrap headlamps like the Myo (r)xp) you always have another light in case one fails.

 

[kwieto]

But don't disqualify other equipment before you've tried it!

OK, OK! :")
If there were not demand for Zebras, they wouldn't make them (and the same conclusion for any other light).
As I said, the major thing for me is the power efficiency.
Even if running time was the same (calculating 3x 1AA for Zebra and 1x 3AA for others), I would prefer lamp where change batteries is needed less often. I just don't want to remember about spare batteries all the time.
But It is not, typical headlamps are more efficient.

Some of the points you are sceptical about:

• Silicone bracket: They work well.

My doubts are not taken from nowhere. I worked with some solutions (like biking lights) where holder is made from the rubber and usually it has some inertia when you are adjusting it and/or makes the whole thing not as stable as it should.
Maybe it is not a problem for Zebra's holder, but please see that post:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2735031&postcount=35

• Gloves: Yes, I can operate H50 with gloves. Yes, I can turn the light in the silicone bracket with gloves. In fact, it's so easy I've never considered it a problem.

I don't think about simple powering it, but i.e. adjusting the angle. This is tiny tube, so when you have big, winter gloves on, or the lamp and your fingers/gloves are wet from the rain/snow, it can be a little trouble. Maybe it isn't, or you just don't use the lamp in above conditions (and Zebra's flood type of light probably don't need much adjustments)

• Walking with the zebra: Haven't really done much of it, can't really comment. The zebra is not really made for walking, IMO. Stomping around camp site is certainly no problem. Walking/hiking or running I can see where I'm putting my feet, but then again I definitively would like more throw to see things in a distance.

Remember my first post, I said that (in my opinion) for outdoord two beam modes (Spot and Flood) are best. If you can smoothly adjust the beam between these two options, it is even better :")

• Power consumption: Depends on your needs. Not perfect for you may be very good for others.

Yes, of course.
As I said, from my point of view, outdoors purposes makes the power efficiency one of the major things to consider. I.e. Lamps like Petzl Ultra are nice, bright, but running time is extremely short. And what to do if the lamp after several days will run out of power and you don't have ability to charge batteries?
The same doubts I have for Zebra.

And btw: Quoted runtimes are with nimh.

OK, sorry. Other Zebra's are driven by Li-On's and I expected that also this one.

Notice the phrasing: 140 lumens SETTING! It is physically impossible to deliver 140 lumens for 50 hours with that kind of battery package. No way - the light gets dimmer and dimmer, it's unregulated at depleted batteries . . . Not necessarily a bad thing, but the 50 hours claim is deceiving.

Yes, and this is why I said that regulated time is very short (in fact 140lm output in RXP isn't regulated at all). And this is why manufacturers are giving in specifications the data about range of light after some period.
I.e after 10h, RXP range will drop from 77m to 21m; for XP it will be drop from 72m to 39; and for X-zoom it will be from 120m to 59m range.
During these 10h in H50 you will have to change batteries 3 times (I don't count inserting the first battery) and with it's flood light you probably don't get as good range as the others (I can't find any data of the H50 lightening range)
This is why I said that for longer outdoor trips I don't care about regulation. After a few days (semi)regulated light in fact will be far away it's regulated period... giving even less light than non-regulated, because it drained batteries faster.

 

[Phaserburn]

kwieto, how do you feel the beam quality is on the X-Zoom? Would you get it over the new Petzl RXP?

 

[Shorty66]

Maybe it is not a problem for Zebra's holder, but please see that post:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2735031&postcount=35

Thats only an issue with the h60 and only while running, as i said in my last post.

You should really try and actually use as zebralight before talking bad about it here. You seem to have no clue how well a zebralight works. As well as you dont seem to know what the term efficiency means.

 

[kwieto]

kwieto, how do you feel the beam quality is on the X-Zoom? Would you get it over the new Petzl RXP?

I didn't tested it with RXP version, but you can see the sample photo in comparison to the Myo XP here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2888382&postcount=26

And according to specifications, RXP beam is similar to XP range (the difference is 5 meters on the Maximum setting).

I like that X-zoom have more concentrated light and, compared to Myo XP, almost no spill on the Spot setting. This make it pretty good searchlight.
On the Flood setting both lights covers similar area (X-zoom is a little marrower), and again, spill in the Myo is bigger. Regardless of settings, beam shape in X-zoom is regular, with hard edges of the main beam. In Myo, transition from Spot into Spill is more smooth, making an impression that quite big part of the beam is wasted around.

My first assumptions are that both lamps, Myo XP and X-zoom, are designed for different purposes.
Myo is more a "city light" in the meaning that it is designed for night runs, walking, etc.
X-zoom is a "mountain" headlamp, with features more suitable for that use.
Of course, Myo XP will be also very good for mountaineering, but X-zoom is just better for that.

 

[drmaxx]

So, the new Rebel EOS, or one of the Zebralights? Must be useful for general camp use as well as night-hiking on faint and well worn trail (or looking for a bivy site when I misjudge the time). Won't be using it for mountaineeing or caving or anything.

I can comment on the Zebralight. I do own the H50 and use it very frequently. It is very useful for general camp use, but I wont use it for night-hiking, especially not on worn or dangerous trails. I am not sure whether the new H501 with the narrower beam would be better. Experience will tell.

My preference on worn trails is a light that gives me some possibilities to see ahead. Generally, I only need very little light in front of my feet (as pointed out by others a few lumen light will do) but you need some light 15 - 30 feet ahead to identify where the trail is going. You don't get that from the Zebralights. (I am using PT Apex for these kind of hikes).

Also, I would not consider finding a bivi place a good use of Zebralight. You simply need more throw for that. However, nothing beats the Zebralight for prepping the bivi place.

Something else to consider is the the choice of batteries. The EOS is AAA whereas the Zebralight is AA. I tend to minimize the number of battery types I take on a trip. In my case I carry AA only (GPS and all the lights). I also tend to have more then one light with me - especially when I am hiking at night. But this is CPF - so no need to defend this habit :laughing:.

 

[Shorty66]

In my opionion the more narrow 80degree beam of the H30/60/501 is very well suited for dangerey trails and general night hiking.
You are perfectly right, that it wont do for bivi place searching. Thats the reason why i carry two lights.

In my opionion, the Myo XP and Tikka Xp are to weak for bivi place searching, too. They are nice lights though - i would not recommend anyone who is confident with his Myo XP to buy a zebralight instead.
Though, the Zebralights got some obvious advantages over almost any other currently avaible headlamps (short of scurion and the like...)

 

[kwieto]

You should really try and actually use as zebralight before talking bad about it here. You seem to have no clue how well a zebralight works. As well as you dont seem to know what the term efficiency means.

Heh, I don't want to make fight against Zebra. If you use it and it suits you, that's perfect!

I have just too much doubts about it.
I didn't ever count it in hours, but when I last used Myo XP in mountains, after about 10 days of usage (usually Low or Mid setting) the control led went into the orange - which mean that 70% of the battery is discharged (I used 2700mAh NiMH inside). And till that time the lightness was quite enough for me.
I wonder how many batteries I should use in Zebralight to get similar result?
Maybe it is more efficient when you calculate how many lumens it takes from 1mAh of battery (I just don't know), but for me more important is answer for a simple question - if after a week of running the light from one batteries set I have enough power for another 5 days, or not?

And I looked through some test photos, like that:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v14/redmodels/Beamshots Short/ZebraLight.jpg

The 2,8lm output is just too little for me.

Maybe I will change the opinion when I will have opportunity to play with that light, but at present I think that typical headlamp is more universal.
But as I said - if you use it, and you are satisfied - that's perfect!

 

[cave dave]

Zebra also rates their outputs in near true out the front lumens while Pezel uses emitter lumens. So the Zebralight is quite a bit brighter at the same claimed lumen values.

The Petzl runtimes are on alkalines and drop in output quite quickly. If you use Nimh in the Petzl the output will start out less but have a flatter discharge curves that ends more abruptly without the long dim tail that gives you those ridiculous runtime claims.

If you are happy using ,<3lm to get those extended 50 hr runtimes, then you could just use the Zebra on its lowest setting the whole time for 72 hrs and still burst to max if you need it. Once the Petzl has severely dropped out of regulation you won't be able to get that highest brightness back without changing batteries.

So far I haven't found a perfect headlamp. I like the slide over diffuser feature of the Petzl's but the lights are so lame in other areas I don't use the Petzl's anymore. My go to all purpose headlamp is a reflector modded EOS which gives a good combo of throw and spill, which is good for hiking, camp setup, etc, but is marginal for reading. I use a Zebralight h50 when I read, cook, set up camp etc. I can go a week in the backcountry no problem on one AA nimh battery.

My ultimate small headlamp would be a H51 like light with a small reflector and a slide over diffuser running off 1AA battery.

 

[Shorty66]

My perfect backcountry light would be a h501 with a low loss apsh. Lens for throw. Though i am quite happy with the two flashlights way and i would only want that asph. lens if it would be really well integrated.

 

[cave dave]

I think kwieto is the victum of intentionally misleading advertising on the part of Petzl.

Check out some unbiased reviews like this one:
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/petzl_myoxp.htm
This is the older luxeoon version.

Actual lumens on max: around 30lm
Claimed runtime: 70hrs
Actual runtime to 50%: 5 hr 23 min