Rechargeable Batteries for P1D-CE

[haskins02]

Thanks TJZ (Tom) for your detailed response. I have another question if you don’t mind. I understand the advantages of the 3V rechargeables is that you can get the different light levels. Are there any advantages of the 3.7V rechargeables over the 3V rechargeables, in terms of runtime or brightness? If not, why doesn’t everyone just buy the 3V rechargeables and forget the 3.7V rechargeables? I must be missing something here.

Thanks,

Greg

 

[TJZ]

Thanks TJZ (Tom) for your detailed response. I have another question if you don’t mind. I understand the advantages of the 3V rechargeables is that you can get the different light levels. Are there any advantages of the 3.7V rechargeables over the 3V rechargeables, in terms of runtime or brightness? If not, why doesn’t everyone just buy the 3V rechargeables and forget the 3.7V rechargeables? I must be missing something here.

Thanks,

Greg

Greg,
Re: Are there any advantages of the 3.7V rechargeable over
the 3V rechargeable, in terms of runtime or brightness?
Yes, 3.6V 900mah you will get around 48 Minutes on high
3.6V 900mah will get around 1hr 16 min on medium
3.0V 900mah you will get around 20 minutes on high
3.0V 900mah will get around 1hr 12min on medium
As you see the 3.6V batteries have more runtime
over the 3.0V batteries on high, but medium is almost the same
with these two companies, Battery Station & Tenergy.

Another advantage with the 3.7V rechargeable is that the high mode
is about 25% brighter than with the standard CR123 battery or
3.0v rechargeable.

Re: If not, why doesn’t everyone just buy the 3V rechargeable
and forget the 3.7V rechargeable? I must be missing something here.
Many people want the extra 25% brighter output with the 3.6V over
the 3.0V rechargeable.

- Tom

 

[coppertrail]

I use the 3.0V RCR123A cells/charger from batteryspace.com. All levels work correctly with these cells. They're not protected, so you can't let them drain down past 2.5V per cell. I have a tenergy 3.0V RCR123A 750 mAh charger/cell set on the way.

While the 3.7V cells may be brighter, I'm sticking with the 3.0V cells for now.

 

[TJZ]

I use the 3.0V RCR123A cells/charger from batteryspace.com. All levels work correctly with these cells. They're not protected, so you can't let them drain down past 2.5V per cell. I have a tenergy 3.0V RCR123A 750 mAh charger/cell set on the way.

While the 3.7V cells may be brighter, I'm sticking with the 3.0V cells for now.

Hi coppertrail, How are your runtimes with the batteryspace.com batteries?
I think you will like the Tenergy.
- Tom

 

[coppertrail]

I carry the P1D some days, but charge the cells after about an hour of total usage (I don't use it on high mode all that often) as they're not protected. I really haven't done a runtime test with them. All I know is that all the levels work on the P1D CE, which is what I was after.

My Tenergy cells should be here today. The rated capacity of the Tenergy cells is higher than the Powerizer (batteryspace) cells. Looking forward to the (hopefully) higher capacity and protection with the Tenergy cells.

 

[2xTrinity]

3) I am unclear about the advantages of RCR123A rechargeables over the standard CR123A non-chargeable variety. Per TJZ, Tenergy 3.0V 900mAh batteries get 1hr 12min on Medium, 20 minutes on High. This compares to the regular (non-chargeable) runtimes for a CR123A batter (per Fenix) at 2.8 hrs. on primary (Medium), 1 hr. on Max and 21 hours on Low. It would seem runtimes for rechargeables are 2 to 3 times less compared to standard batteries. Is this correct? I wonder if they are worth it if you can buy standard CR123A batteries at Amondo Tech for $1 each. How do the brightness levels compared to standard CR123A batteries?

I think your best bet is probably to use the rechargeables, especially if you plan to use the light for EDC, but still have several primaries on hand, which may be more convenient than bringing a recharger if you are traveling or something.

 

[Turbo_E]

... mostly everything. There are a few items that have exceeded my expectations though and i've been very happy with them. Some items can be found at fifthunit/dealextreme as well though.

I would stay far away from any flashlights though. Just some random accessories. Knockoffs or OEM's that are pretty good I must say.:lolsign:

i agree, the lights there are of very poor quality. most of the stuff is passsable like the BT dongles or remote control or usb hubs. i love free shipping


in regards to ppl using 3.0 instead of 3.7v batteries, its because we like having the different modes usable right away, rather than waiting for the voltage to drop enough to get out of DD mode.

also with a RCR123, you dont have to buy dozens of batteries and throw them away. $ in your pocket

 

[haskins02]

Thanks Tom (TJZ). I plan to buy the Battery Station 3.6V 900 mAh protected. Even though they are brighter than standard lithium batteries, I assume they will not damage the PID-CE, even though use of such batteries voids the Fenix warrantee, correct?

- Greg

 

[TJZ]

Thanks Tom (TJZ). I plan to buy the Battery Station 3.6V 900 mAh protected. Even though they are brighter than standard lithium batteries, I assume they will not damage the PID-CE, even though use of such batteries voids the Fenix warrantee, correct?

- Greg

Greg,
Yes, use of rechargeable Lithium-ion batteries is not
recommended and voids the product warranty.
Input voltage: 1.5V~4V
There are a lot of people at CPF running them on 3.6V/3.7V rechargeable batteries.
I have never seen anyone blow out there light with them (but you never know).
If in doubt, use the 3.0V rechargeable battery.
Mine works fine with 3.6V, but I now use the 3.0V instead because I want
all the levels to work correctly, especially the low mode.

 

[farscape105]

One thing with the LiFePO4 R123 cells is worrying about overdischarge since they don't have a cutoff. So would you have to take them out when light starts to dim or would the P1D CE go out of regulation before it goes below 2.0 volts?

 

[R...]

One thing with the LiFePO4 R123 cells is worrying about overdischarge since they don't have a cutoff. So would you have to take them out when light starts to dim or would the P1D CE go out of regulation before it goes below 2.0 volts?

I use LiFePO4 cells in a P1D CE and measured 2.3V after shutdown of the light. So there should be no reason to worry about overdischarge.

 

[farscape105]

Sorry about being anal here, but I am close to buying the 3.0 volts. What do you mean shutdown of the light? The way I understand it, with standard 123's on high, for example, there is gradual dimming. With protected rechargeables they shutdown right away at voltage cutoff. Without protection, wouldn't they act like standard ones?

Here are chevofreaks graphs https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/144407&page=1&pp=30&highlight=p1d+comparison


Also, would you guys guess the 3.0 v rechargeables get around 4 hours or so on low?

 

[TJZ]

Sorry about being anal here, but I am close to buying the 3.0 volts. What do you mean shutdown of the light? The way I understand it, with standard 123's on high, for example, there is gradual dimming. With protected rechargeables they shutdown right away at voltage cutoff. Without protection, wouldn't they act like standard ones?

Here are chevofreaks graphs https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/144407&page=1&pp=30&highlight=p1d+comparison


Also, would you guys guess the 3.0 v rechargeables get around 4 hours or so on low?

farscape105,
If you go with the Tenergy you won't have any over-discharge problem.
It is protected and regulated, over-discharge protected.
I would guess that the 3.0 v rechargeable
get around 4 hours or so on low. Sounds about right.

I just checked with chevofreak charts and it shows
3 hours 57 minutes 34 seconds to 50% with AW 3v regulated RCR123.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/144407&page=1&pp=30&highlight=p1d+comparison

You will have to ask R... about the shutdown.
These don't have over-discharge protection. Just be careful.

RE: "Without protection, wouldn't they act like standard ones?
Yes they should, but if you discharge too low, you will ruin
the battery. Probably below 2.0 Volts or so.


- Tom

 

[haskins02]

I have other questions related to Farscape 105's question (immediately above).

If I buy the Tenergy 3.0V 900 mAh batteries sold here (with suitable charger, also listed): http://batteryjunction.com/rc390reliba.html
would this mean I would not have to worry about keeping the batteries too long in the PID-CE because it is "protected" from low voltage? In other words, after the voltage got low enough, the battery would automatically turn off, hence protecting the flashlight?

Also, if I left the Tenergy battery in the Tenergy charger after it was fully charged, would the charger automatically turn off so I don't have to worry about over-charging either?

Thanks again.

- Greg

 

[coppertrail]

1. Yes
2. Yes

The following is a product description of both the charger and cells from the All-Battery site:

Charger Features

• Worldwide usage. Auto AC power adjust from 100-240V.</FONT>
• Smart, build-in microprocessor automatically switch off when batteries are fully charged.</FONT>
• Safe, build-in IC provides various protection, Thermal protection, Overcharge protection, Short-circuit protection, mechanical. and electrical protection against reversal polarity, and auto defective battery identification.</FONT>
• Convenient, 12V car cigarette lighter plug for on the road charging.</FONT>
• Compact ( 2.5 x 4 x 1 inch ), Light weight ( 5 oz only ), include charger and all accessories.</FONT>
• Charge 1 to 2 RCR123A from 1.5 hours to 3 hours. Peak voltage of 3.0V Li-Ion will be 3.60V after fully charged.</FONT>

RCR123A Features</FONT>

• Rechargeable CR123A Li-Ion Batteries with 3.0V working voltage and 900mAh capacity.
• Fully protected against over-charge, over-discharge, over-current and short-circuit.</FONT>
• Tenergy RCR123A can be recharged up to 1000 times. 1 RCR123A Li-ion = 1000 CR123A Primary Cells</FONT>
• Replace the most of CR123A primary Lithium battery for a digital cameras and flashlight</FONT>
• Modified Voltage to achieve 3.2v at full voltage; once loaded, cell voltage drops to 3.0v.
• Internal over-charge and over-discharge protection to prevent battery over use. The current will be shut off when the battery voltage drops below 2.5V.</FONT>
• Internal Voltage Regulators.</FONT>
• Dimension: 16 D x 34 H mm. (The height 34mm includes the button top).</FONT>
• Weight: 17 g or 0.6 Oz.

 

[haskins02]

Thanks Chris (coppertrail).

- Greg

 

[R...]

Sorry about being anal here, but I am close to buying the 3.0 volts. What do you mean shutdown of the light? The way I understand it, with standard 123's on high, for example, there is gradual dimming. With protected rechargeables they shutdown right away at voltage cutoff. Without protection, wouldn't they act like standard ones?

I don't see real gradual dimming. I think the P1D-CE regulation circuit shuts down the light when the battery is below a certain voltage.

 

[JRBoy]

I use Tenergy 900 mAh batteries in mine and for everyday use I think they are a good choice. Run times are not as good as unprotected as the protection shuts them off before they are completely drained.

However I find that this is actually useful as it lets you know you haven't got much run time left. You can then turn the light on again (without having to wait) switch through medium and high to get to low and it will then work for about 10 minutes while you find a spare battery. This works when in high or medium, if it switches off from low you may be lucky you may not.

I get run times of about 20 minutes on high, 1 hour 20 minutes on medium and about 5 hours on low. These are to the point where the it shuts off completely so can't be compared to other run times to 50% light output.

Hope this helps.

 

[Mike abcd]

How your P1D CE behaves on 3.7 V or "3.0 V" RCR123 cells depends a lot on the emitter in your light and the battery used.

Take a look at chevrofreak's P1D CE run time tests.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/144407

On 3.7 V RCR123, his P1D CE dropped into regulation on medium in 9 minutes (90 min total) on one cell and 20 minutes (107 min total) on a better battery.

My P1D CE apparently has an emitter with a lower Vf than his and took 45 minutes to drop into regulation on medium with a run time of 65 minutes with a year old 3.7 V RCR123 from AW.

The lower Vf of my emitter draws more current than the regulation circuit is set to provide on medium for a longer time on my P1D CE than his. I get more light until it goes into regulation and for a longer time than his but the higher current draw during the first 45 minutes also yields less total run time.

Using AW's 3.0 V protected RCR123 from Lighthound, my P1D CE starts out in full regulation on high and medium. However, chevrofreaks starts out in regulation on low while mine is much brighter and takes over an hour to go into regulation on low. The initial output on low is roughly 80% of medium or roughly almost 3x brighter than the level on low in regulation.

Generally a low Vf emitter is a good thing. On a primary CR123 when the light is in regualtion, a lower Vf results in less power drawn from the CR123 and longer run times. Mine also is about 10% brighter than the ones tested by chevrofreak and flashlightreviews.com.

Mike

 

[Mike abcd]

I use Tenergy 900 mAh batteries in mine and for everyday use I think they are a good choice. Run times are not as good as unprotected as the protection shuts them off before they are completely drained.

However I find that this is actually useful as it lets you know you haven't got much run time left. You can then turn the light on again (without having to wait) switch through medium and high to get to low and it will then work for about 10 minutes while you find a spare battery. This works when in high or medium, if it switches off from low you may be lucky you may not.

...
Hope this helps.

Be careful about turning the light back on again after the protection circuit kicks off the first time or running it until it shuts off the first time on 3.0 V RCR123.

Both can overdischarge the LiOn and result in a lot less cycles before capacity drops and you have to replace it.

The LVC (low voltage cut off) on my AW 3.0 V RCR123 cut off at a pretty safe level on medium or high. The LVC on the protected 3.7 V RCR123 doesn't cut off until much lower and depending on it will reduce the number of useful cycles.

You're far better off topping off the cells frequently and trying to avoid running them down to LVC unless an emergency requires it.

Mike