Recommended programming for Triton

[Phaserburn]

Ok, got the Triton! Thank you to all who heavily influenced me in this direction. And I'm waiting on my cool new power supply, courtesy of js (plug). Sooo...

What are the recommended programming choices for each major type of chemistry and cell size? Triton and charger gurus, please chime in here! I'd like to set up the best choices the Triton allows. I've read that using the automatic feature isn't the way to go here, and kinda defeats the options and extra $$$ this setup goes for.

Charge and discharge current, voltage where applicable, trickle charge? Am I missing something/anything?

Li-ions? AA, AAA, 18650s, 123s?
Nimh? AA, AAA, C, D?
SLA? Does size matter? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Nicad? Any different than nimh?
Packs/holders: how about when using series holders, like the ones from Thomas Dist? How about parallel ones?

Maybe this should become a sticky thread when a consensus is reached...?

 

[wptski]

The manual is a good guide. Don't discharge Ni-CD/Ni-MH below .9V per cell or Li-Ion below 3.0V per cell. Charge Li-Ion at .5C unless your in a big hurry! Heat kills Ni-MH cells. Did you get the temperature probe? If not, let your finger be your guide! If you can't keep your finger on it, it's too hot! The probe isn't too accurate and it's very linear. I set mine 10 deg. below what I want.

I charge at .5C on most everything.

 

[stringj]

What wptski posted is excellent advice, but you now own a charger capable of letting you experiment. I suggest you do, within reason. Read the manual more than once and practice charging and discharging a cell type while you are reading those instructions. You WILL have more questions even after carefully reading the manual. Charging cells can become a hobby as it has for me. Make sure you read in the manual about charging currents for different number of cells. For instance, you can't charge a single Nicad or NiMh at 5 amps. Also, any discharging will turn on the fan. If you enjoy your new charger just half as much as I enjoy mine, you are in for a treat.

Jerry

 

[paulr]

I'm thinking of getting a Triton so am posting on this thread rather than opening a new one. I'm looking for general advise on whether to spring $80 extra for it (compared to the USL standard charger). I've read the online manual (maybe not very carefully yet). Here's my issues.

I'd be getting the Triton for three main purposes: 1) charge the USL (I'd get it through the USL-associated group buy); 2) charge NiMH D cells; 3) charge large stacks of NiMH AA cells. Each of these purposes raises questions:

1) What benefit does the Triton really have over the much less expensive standard charger, for charging the USL? I've heard it charges faster (nice but not that big a deal for this purpose), and I've heard it can more safely top-up partially charge packs (somewhat more important).

2) The Triton has a programmable auto-cutoff to prevent overcharging, programmable from 0 to 9990 mAH. That's pretty stupid since 12,000 mAH D cells are available now and will presumably keep improving, plus, there's even bigger cells being made and there's no reason to not want to charge those with the Triton. So, the limit should be made much higher, like 99000 instead of 9990. Should I care? It's possible to turn off this overcharge protection, and rely on delta-V detection and the thermal probe, so I guess I can leave it at that.

3) I still haven't gotten my mind around charging large stacks of AA cells since I think the Triton has only one channel. Don't good AA chargers have separate channels for each cell? I'd like to be able to charge, say, 16 or 20 cells at once, for example if I want to go on a trip and bring lots of charged cells along. The catch is that before charging, the cells might be in varying states of partial charge. Even if I charge them all at once, if I let them sit around for a few months, I think they'd vary in self-discharge rate. Is that also an issue with the USL? Using the discharge function on such a large stack also seems like a poor idea, since can't it cause reverse charging?

I wouldn't need to fast charge in this situation, but an 8 hour charge would be much preferable to 12-14 hours since it means I could start it charging just before bed, and leave in the morning with charged cells.

 

[stringj]

paulr,
I'll try to answer some of your questions. Please don't take this as a criticism, but I don't have a clue what a "USL" is therefore I can't comment on whether the Triton is a good charger for this or not.

As far as the programmable auto-cutoff, you should set it to 0 and depend on the delta-V circuitry to terminate the charge. You need to understand that the Triton is designed, primarily, for the Radio Control racer or user and they don’t use cells with a capacity greater than 9990 mAh.

From what you have written about charging AA cells, I would say the Triton is not the charger for you. You are correct in that charging cells in series is not as good as charging them individually. As you stated, discharging cells in series is not the best way either. The Triton is best used for charging a series of cells that have been matched using their charging characteristics.

For AA cells alone, you won’t find a better charger that the one JonSidneyB sells here https://www.jsburlys.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=95&osCsid=ef5bcc5de7090122916a505e22017c8f

Jerry

 

[cy]

Paul, highly recommend getting a Triton. wish I had got one long ago instead of messing with all sorts of other chargers.

I'll charge loose AA cells 8 at a time in my old ray-o-vac charger with four channels. but everything else is charged with triton.

 

[js]

[ QUOTE ]
paulr said:
I'm thinking of getting a Triton so am posting on this thread rather than opening a new one. I'm looking for general advise on whether to spring $80 extra for it (compared to the USL standard charger). I've read the online manual (maybe not very carefully yet). Here's my issues.

I'd be getting the Triton for three main purposes: 1) charge the USL (I'd get it through the USL-associated group buy); 2) charge NiMH D cells; 3) charge large stacks of NiMH AA cells. Each of these purposes raises questions:

1) What benefit does the Triton really have over the much less expensive standard charger, for charging the USL? I've heard it charges faster (nice but not that big a deal for this purpose), and I've heard it can more safely top-up partially charge packs (somewhat more important).

[/ QUOTE ]

The "standard" charger (Hitec CG-340) will charge the USL just fine. If your only reason for getting the charger were for the USL, I'd say get the Hitec and save some money. Yes, the Triton will charge the USL 11 cell NiMH pack faster and will keep it cooler and will enable you to see a readout of mAh delivered, and also to do a discharging and recharging cycle if you wanted to do this.

But the USL pack will come with all cells in the same state of charge, and will be all set to be charged by the Hitec.

[ QUOTE ]
2) The Triton has a programmable auto-cutoff to prevent overcharging, programmable from 0 to 9990 mAH. That's pretty stupid since 12,000 mAH D cells are available now and will presumably keep improving, plus, there's even bigger cells being made and there's no reason to not want to charge those with the Triton. So, the limit should be made much higher, like 99000 instead of 9990. Should I care? It's possible to turn off this overcharge protection, and rely on delta-V detection and the thermal probe, so I guess I can leave it at that.

[/ QUOTE ]

As has been stated already, the Triton is mainly for the RC community, and they never use cells with higher the 9900 mAh capacity. But in any case, as I understand it, you can effectively disable this limit by setting it to "9900", where it will allow you to put as much charge as needed through a battery pack.

[ QUOTE ]
3) I still haven't gotten my mind around charging large stacks of AA cells since I think the Triton has only one channel. Don't good AA chargers have separate channels for each cell? I'd like to be able to charge, say, 16 or 20 cells at once, for example if I want to go on a trip and bring lots of charged cells along. The catch is that before charging, the cells might be in varying states of partial charge. Even if I charge them all at once, if I let them sit around for a few months, I think they'd vary in self-discharge rate. Is that also an issue with the USL? Using the discharge function on such a large stack also seems like a poor idea, since can't it cause reverse charging?

I wouldn't need to fast charge in this situation, but an 8 hour charge would be much preferable to 12-14 hours since it means I could start it charging just before bed, and leave in the morning with charged cells.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Triton is not made to charge consumer AA cells, and has only one "bay" so to speak, and no, you would not want to charge AA cells in series unless they were all in the same state of charge--i.e. unless they were effectively a battery pack. The cells in the USL pack have all been equalized by an initial 16 hour .1C slow charge, but any random set of AA cells will all be in different states of charge.

A consumer cell charger is so much better for charging loose consumer cell rechargeables.

The Triton is a very sophistacted, high performance charger which is great for people who deal mainly with battery packs and/or Li-ion rechargeables, but not that great for people who use battery holders in a mag or loose cells in a camera or flashlight. If that is your main use, I recommend to you that you get the Hitec instead of a Triton, and use the extra money to buy some multi-bay consumer cell chargers.

 

[cy]

Js, thought the same thing, but if someone is even thinking of using different li-ion cells. go with the triton.

the safety issue is worth the extra $$$ alone. I messed with several small li-ion chargers. until I finally stepped up and got the triton.

you can charge protected and bare li-ion safely. you have the ablility to charge several li-ion cells at once, but I chose to charge one cell at a time due to loose cells being in different states of charge.

 

[bwaites]

cy makes a good point!

Eventually, a lot of lights are going to use LiIon cells, (maybe including another bwaites/js collaboration) and the Triton does a good job of charging them.

It is programmed to be VERY protective of them as well.

Bill

 

[paulr]

Jim et al, thanks, I didn't want to keep bwaites waiting for my USL payment so I went ahead and ordered the Triton. I may end up with some buyers' remorse, but heck, it's only money.

I worry a little about fast charging the USL if it hasn't been recently discharged. The concern is that if I let a fully charged USL sit around for a month or two, the cells will self-discharge at varying rates, and therefore fast-charging them all together will overcharge some of them, the delta-V blip will be smeared, etc. I think I'm best off slow charging in this situation. I assume I can set the Triton to a nice low charge rate, like 50 mA?

Yes I've been following the thread about the Lacrosse AA charger and might order one. I had been thinking of getting a Rayovac 15 minute system though the cells for it are pretty expensive and the charger is not very smart (it depends on thermal cutouts in the cells). But 2300 mAH cells here for just over a buck apiece is awfully tempting and would go well with the Lacrosse.

Man I'm spending a lot these days. Ouch.

 

[cy]

.1 amp is the lowest setting on Triton, unless there is some undocumented way to set it lower.

 

[paulr]

I guess for good AA cells, .1 amp is less than C/20 so it's still a nice safe slow charge. But I think that's a pretty dumb limit. Like the zipzap users with their 1/3 AAA packs, or folks wanting to use rechargeable button cells, might find .1 amp to be an awful lot. They should make it .01 amp or even .001. Any chance they ever release firmware upgrades for these things?

 

[js]

[ QUOTE ]
paulr said:
Jim et al, thanks, I didn't want to keep bwaites waiting for my USL payment so I went ahead and ordered the Triton. I may end up with some buyers' remorse, but heck, it's only money.

I worry a little about fast charging the USL if it hasn't been recently discharged. The concern is that if I let a fully charged USL sit around for a month or two, the cells will self-discharge at varying rates, and therefore fast-charging them all together will overcharge some of them, the delta-V blip will be smeared, etc. I think I'm best off slow charging in this situation. I assume I can set the Triton to a nice low charge rate, like 50 mA?

Yes I've been following the thread about the Lacrosse AA charger and might order one. I had been thinking of getting a Rayovac 15 minute system though the cells for it are pretty expensive and the charger is not very smart (it depends on thermal cutouts in the cells). But 2300 mAH cells here for just over a buck apiece is awfully tempting and would go well with the Lacrosse.

Man I'm spending a lot these days. Ouch.

[/ QUOTE ]

paulr,

The Triton has a very sophisticated voltage detection scheme and the minor differences bewteen self-discharge rates and thus the very slightly different states of charge will NOT fool it, but even if they did, it would undercharge the pack, not over charge it. And in that case, there is a "top-off" feature which will put just a bit more mAh through the pack after it has reached full charge. This will equalize and balance all the cells and bring them all up to 100 percent.

You can most definitely charge a full pack with the Triton, just so long as it is at room temperature. I have done this before, and the detection scheme is adequate to the task. Not a problem. In fact, if you really wanted to, you could charge your USL every day with the Triton, even if you never used it. Of course, this isn't a great idea in any case, but you could do it.

You can also turn the Triton into a NiMH slow charger if you want. Right now I am breaking in the field tester USL packs with my Triton, set at .1 amp charge rate.

I did it by telling it that the pack was a NiCd pack and setting the peak sensitivity detection to 20 mV/cell. It will never, ever see that from a NiMH. So it will just continue to deliver .1 amps for ever. So if you REALLY wanted to, you could slow charge your USL with the Triton.

Happy?

 

[Bogus1]

I have been considering the Triton as well and as I have no current plans to run packs of batteries I'm not sure it's my best bet. I want to charge loose batteries, however 1 cell at a time for Li-ions seems tedious. From what I've read the cells in a multiple cell Li-ion flashlight don't discharge at the same rate in the light so it seems I would have to charge them separately.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=405

Wouldn't this Hobbicycle Elite be a better deal for me since it has dual channels and I could therefore charge two Li-ions simultaneously with all the safety features the Triton offers? Essentially providing twice the value?

Perhaps even 2 Maha chargers would be better and be the same cost as the Triton. I might have to return them until I get one that doesn't overcharge as I've read they can.

Is there any consensus what would be the best charger for charging NIMH loose consumer cells of all sizes? Too bad the La Crosse won't do this.

Thanks for any help!

 

[cy]

from hobbico

"it should be noted that the Elite is designed primarily for R/C radio transmitter and receiver batteries. For that reason, it was not designed to handle more than 2 amps of current or 10 cells (3 with lipo/ion).

Although you can charge some electric flight batteries with this unit, some of the larger packs with 4+ lipo or 11+ Nicd/Mh are beyond the capability of this charger (again not an issue for radio system battery packs which is the primary application for this charger). If you need to charge more than 3 cells for lipo packs or more than 10 cells for Nicd/Mh or if you require higher charge rates then 2.0 amps you should look at something like the all purpose Triton charger. Also if for some reason you require a higher discharge rate than this unit can handle you may want to look at the Triton or other units"

 

[Bogus1]

Would I need a higher charge rate than 2 amps for 2 Li-ions?

Thanks

 

[paulr]

Bogus1, the charge rate determines the charging time. For 18650's, 2 amps would give about a 1 hour charge. 1 amp would be a 2 hour charge, you get the picture.

You have to be pretty careful with lithium ion and I'd be cautious about charging them any faster than 0.5C (= 2 hour charge rate for whatever kind of cell it is) unless I knew the cell was designed for fast charging.