I am rebuilding a remote cabin in North Central PA that has propane, and deep cell battery w/ inverter and occasional gas generator. I have 4 Paulen (75 watt equiv) propane lights - 3 in main room, 1 in bedroom and they work fine when it's not too hot out, but do put off some heat. I plan on putting in an energy star ceiling fan - running approx. 10 watts on low - AC probably. I want to spend the least amount and get the best lumens for the amps. I was thinking some CFL - cold cathodes w/ dimmer in main room (generally 1700 lumens is fine) in that ceiling fan that will stay on a lot and a small flouresent in kitchen and possibly the bath and bedroom that might be on for 20 minutes now and then and no idea for a porch light that gets turned on and off a lot. LEDs intrigue me, and was thinking about one for a reading light, but I'm not sure. Any suggestions that won't involve spending more than several hundred $$s total including a $125 fan.
Remote cabin recommendations
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SafetyBob
Enlightened
Wow, this is really an open ended question.
I will tell you as far as cold cathode, I love Microbrites products. Yes they use 120VAC, but I belive you can dim them or whatever. Problem is finding the higher wattage versions. I use numerous 3 and 5 watt ones for night lighting in and around the house.
As far as LED's. This is probably why nobody has answered up yet. YOU need to decide what power level you want. Here is what I mean. If you wire the cabin with 12VDC and sort of make a DC power panel, you could then use that directly with the battery. Your problem is that unless you use premade 12VDC LED products (and they are out there, check www.theledlight.com) you will then be making your own lights and figuring out how much resistence and what not to control them. That gets as complicated as you want it to.
Here is the best thing I can do for you. Here is what friend Don has done at his home in Hawaii. This should be a good reference point:
http://dmcleish.com/
Let us know what you do.
Bob E.
I will tell you as far as cold cathode, I love Microbrites products. Yes they use 120VAC, but I belive you can dim them or whatever. Problem is finding the higher wattage versions. I use numerous 3 and 5 watt ones for night lighting in and around the house.
As far as LED's. This is probably why nobody has answered up yet. YOU need to decide what power level you want. Here is what I mean. If you wire the cabin with 12VDC and sort of make a DC power panel, you could then use that directly with the battery. Your problem is that unless you use premade 12VDC LED products (and they are out there, check www.theledlight.com) you will then be making your own lights and figuring out how much resistence and what not to control them. That gets as complicated as you want it to.
Here is the best thing I can do for you. Here is what friend Don has done at his home in Hawaii. This should be a good reference point:
http://dmcleish.com/
Let us know what you do.
Bob E.
Bob,
Thanks for the feedback. The Microbrites look good if I have enough fixtures. I might also go w/ 15 WATT SPIRAL DIMMABLE CFL/27K SUPRA LIFE COMPACT FLUORESCENT LIGHT BULB which has a little better LPW and is also dimmable and low temp capable. Your point about power...I'm definately leaning toward 110 volt because of simplicity sake. I will need to get a new inverter to make sure my ceiling fan doesn't hum too loudly. Wow - that LED system is impressive. I think I'll just look for a couple standard 110 fixture bulbs for on / off lights and reading purposed though unless I find something w/ great LPW to light up the ceiling. I didn't mention that it will be pine T&G to a peaked white ceiling.
Thanks for the feedback. The Microbrites look good if I have enough fixtures. I might also go w/ 15 WATT SPIRAL DIMMABLE CFL/27K SUPRA LIFE COMPACT FLUORESCENT LIGHT BULB which has a little better LPW and is also dimmable and low temp capable. Your point about power...I'm definately leaning toward 110 volt because of simplicity sake. I will need to get a new inverter to make sure my ceiling fan doesn't hum too loudly. Wow - that LED system is impressive. I think I'll just look for a couple standard 110 fixture bulbs for on / off lights and reading purposed though unless I find something w/ great LPW to light up the ceiling. I didn't mention that it will be pine T&G to a peaked white ceiling.
Illum
Flashaholic
If your powering everything by inverter, and you have not invested in a true sine model....you may experience excessive humming or heat from the cold cathode driver.:candle:
Since power is limited I'd stay away from 120VAC to cut down losses through the inverter. If you can afford more batteries, its usually more efficient running directly from good, clean DC
something like this
http://www.oneweekspecial.com/0/9164589.html
or http://gallery.hd.org/_c/light/_mor...copper-crocodile-clips-closeup-1-DHD.jpg.html
Since a healthy, fully charged lead acid puts out a nominal 13.8V, for those sensitive electronics that have to use exactly 12V...I'd wire this on a 12V tap: http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2494
that buck/boosts 10-17V DC to 12V and an accommodate up to 4 amps load.
For more selections on the 12V regulators, I'd suggest: http://www.theledlight.com/voltage-regulators.html
For easy installation...I suppose you could give the fenix lightbar a try
https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=79&products_id=345
review: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=181576
you'd get alot of shadow effects and some "PWM" flickering...but not noticeable unless you dim it really down. And yes, its dimmable and includes a remote:nana:
Go buy yourself a fridge that runs on propane while your at it
Since power is limited I'd stay away from 120VAC to cut down losses through the inverter. If you can afford more batteries, its usually more efficient running directly from good, clean DC
something like this
http://www.oneweekspecial.com/0/9164589.html
or http://gallery.hd.org/_c/light/_mor...copper-crocodile-clips-closeup-1-DHD.jpg.html
Since a healthy, fully charged lead acid puts out a nominal 13.8V, for those sensitive electronics that have to use exactly 12V...I'd wire this on a 12V tap: http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2494
that buck/boosts 10-17V DC to 12V and an accommodate up to 4 amps load.
For more selections on the 12V regulators, I'd suggest: http://www.theledlight.com/voltage-regulators.html
For easy installation...I suppose you could give the fenix lightbar a try
https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=79&products_id=345
review: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=181576
you'd get alot of shadow effects and some "PWM" flickering...but not noticeable unless you dim it really down. And yes, its dimmable and includes a remote:nana:
Go buy yourself a fridge that runs on propane while your at it
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Ken_McE
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2003
- Messages
- 1,689
That DC/AC inverter will need a certain amount of power to run itself, and lose a certain amount due to conversion losses. I'm wondering if you might go 12-volt for all daily operations and keep the inverter for running power tools and special occasions. This would give you more overall efficiency. You can get a 12-volt DC ceiling fan easy enough. Find any place in your area that sells parts for trucks or heavy equipment and buy a big 12-volt radiator fan, hang it from the ceiling. It might even be a higher quality than a mall fan. For that special touch you can paint a Mack truck bulldog on the switch. Readymade 12-volt DC LED & CFL lights are available anywhere that sells car stuff. They should put out less heat than propane. You also might be able to hook up a photovoltaic panel and have the system charge itself when you're not around.
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BIGIRON
Flashlight Enthusiast
Tho most RV accessories are way overpriced, there are some 12v items available, ceiling fans, etc that might work for you.
Just got back from cleaning out old cabin for preparation and read your feedback.
I appreciate all the advice. I believe right now I'm going to go with a 12 volt ceiling fan if I can find one that looks simple, can be mounted in a peak, and has some sort of way to allow for 110 operation w/ converter when gas generator is being used. I may have a couple 12 volt lights and later add i.e. solar panel and leave my battery system in place. Any further suggestions on gauge of wire, converter / charger, wiring, sources for purchasing, etc. are appreciated. I will use the 110 for other items including TV/dvd. Thanks.
I appreciate all the advice. I believe right now I'm going to go with a 12 volt ceiling fan if I can find one that looks simple, can be mounted in a peak, and has some sort of way to allow for 110 operation w/ converter when gas generator is being used. I may have a couple 12 volt lights and later add i.e. solar panel and leave my battery system in place. Any further suggestions on gauge of wire, converter / charger, wiring, sources for purchasing, etc. are appreciated. I will use the 110 for other items including TV/dvd. Thanks.
Paul and others - you've got me thinking - but I'm clueless about 12 volt.
will my deep cell battery last that much longer if I run 12 volt lighting verses 110 efficient lighting? If so, then how do you do 12 volt wiring for a 16X30 cabin w/ 1 bedroom, 1 living space, and very small bath, 2 input sources i.e. battery interior and generator exterior?
Any suggesitons on where do you get 12 volt efficient fixtures / bulbs at a decent price and variety?
will my deep cell battery last that much longer if I run 12 volt lighting verses 110 efficient lighting? If so, then how do you do 12 volt wiring for a 16X30 cabin w/ 1 bedroom, 1 living space, and very small bath, 2 input sources i.e. battery interior and generator exterior?
Any suggesitons on where do you get 12 volt efficient fixtures / bulbs at a decent price and variety?
Ken_McE
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2003
- Messages
- 1,689
>Paul and others - you've got me thinking - but I'm clueless about 12 volt.
It's actually easier than AC. One thing I like about it is that it is hard to hurt yourself with it and it is fully legal to just go do it yourself. The wiring tend to be much lighter. AC has the advantage when you have to send power over long distances. Nothing in your cabin counts as long distance.
>will my deep cell battery last that much longer if I run 12 volt
>lighting verses 110 efficient lighting?
Don't know.
>If so, then how do you do 12 volt wiring for a 16X30 cabin
What would the other people in this thread think of lamp cord or speaker wire? Mcalvin, what are the inside walls made of?
> 2 input sources i.e. battery interior and generator exterior?
My personal solution to that part would be to use the generator to top up the batteries and use the batteries to run the 12 volt stuff. If you want some 120 V. AC outlets you'd wire them up to the same standard as if it were a house in town.
>Any suggesitons on where do you get 12 volt efficient fixtures /
>bulbs at a decent price and variety?
Want ad in the Marketplace?
It's actually easier than AC. One thing I like about it is that it is hard to hurt yourself with it and it is fully legal to just go do it yourself. The wiring tend to be much lighter. AC has the advantage when you have to send power over long distances. Nothing in your cabin counts as long distance.
>will my deep cell battery last that much longer if I run 12 volt
>lighting verses 110 efficient lighting?
Don't know.
>If so, then how do you do 12 volt wiring for a 16X30 cabin
What would the other people in this thread think of lamp cord or speaker wire? Mcalvin, what are the inside walls made of?
> 2 input sources i.e. battery interior and generator exterior?
My personal solution to that part would be to use the generator to top up the batteries and use the batteries to run the 12 volt stuff. If you want some 120 V. AC outlets you'd wire them up to the same standard as if it were a house in town.
>Any suggesitons on where do you get 12 volt efficient fixtures /
>bulbs at a decent price and variety?
Want ad in the Marketplace?
SafetyBob
Enlightened
Fixtures for 12VDC, go look at your local Marine online sources. I know one of my restaurant partners put a bunch of 12VDC CFLs in his boat and is not unhappy with them. They do OK from what I gather.
I would stay away from speaker wire myself and use as nice a wire as you feel comfortable paying for. You should be able to find some nice multistranded wire that has two or three wires with a nice heavy jacket around it (like yellow extension cord wire) at surplus sites and such.
If you have access to a EE type, give them some of the products you plan to use and the distance from the battery and they can tell you exactly the sized wire you need to run around the cabin for the smallest voltage/amp loss. Got a trailer company close by? They might have something you can use.
Bob E.
I would stay away from speaker wire myself and use as nice a wire as you feel comfortable paying for. You should be able to find some nice multistranded wire that has two or three wires with a nice heavy jacket around it (like yellow extension cord wire) at surplus sites and such.
If you have access to a EE type, give them some of the products you plan to use and the distance from the battery and they can tell you exactly the sized wire you need to run around the cabin for the smallest voltage/amp loss. Got a trailer company close by? They might have something you can use.
Bob E.
A few months ago, whilst looking for LED 12V MR16 downlights, I stumbled across a 4W 245 lumen fixture in warm white. For $30 I thought it was cheap enough to order one and try it out. It wasn't bright enough to replace a 50W halogen (despite being the brightest LED MR16 I've found) but probably put out close to the rated 245 lumens. Perhaps more importantly it has almost the same colour temperature as halogen lights.
A few months down the track, I noticed they've released an 8W 700 lumen (max) version in warm white, which may get close enough to replacing 50W downlights for me.
http://www.besthongkong.com/product...d=663&osCsid=bc8837d8e7b3c6cd83166ca3f4f282a6
Has anyone seen these before? I'd like to know how they perform compared with a 50W halogen. If they were appropriate substitutes they'd pay for themselves in electricity costs in about 2 years. They could be significantly more cost effective if you're running off grid, especially since these can run on a 12V supply.
A few months down the track, I noticed they've released an 8W 700 lumen (max) version in warm white, which may get close enough to replacing 50W downlights for me.
http://www.besthongkong.com/product...d=663&osCsid=bc8837d8e7b3c6cd83166ca3f4f282a6
Has anyone seen these before? I'd like to know how they perform compared with a 50W halogen. If they were appropriate substitutes they'd pay for themselves in electricity costs in about 2 years. They could be significantly more cost effective if you're running off grid, especially since these can run on a 12V supply.
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Illum
Flashaholic
mmm, at least that light's heatsinks look promising
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