REVIEW: Wolf Eyes Champion VS. EagleTac P10C2

Wattnot

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
977
Location
Lake Norman, NC
Hi All and welcome to another couple of reviews on a couple of great new lights. I'm trying something a little new with this review. Mike from PTS-Flashlights.com sent me these two lights for review (I'm not trying to plug for PTS but I did want to let you all know he sells the new EagleTac models too). Since both are so similar, I felt it would be appropriate to review them together in a little friendly competition style! I've also added a couple of extras that I believe you will like! Read on!

Manufacturer's features and specifications (from WE's site):


Model
EagleTac P10C2
Housing Material
Solid stainless head and durable aircraft-grade aluminum housing
Output Power
295 Lumens Max
Continuous Runtime
Two modes of output, selected by turning the bezel
Turbo Mode: Constant 295 Lumens* regulates 1.2 hour to 50%
General Mode: Constant 60 Lumens* regulates 10 hours to 50%
Lamp assembly
Cree Premium Q5 7090 XR-E LED with lifespan of 50,000 hours
Reflector
Light OP
Digital special features
Battery reverse polarity protection
WorkingVoltageRange
4V - 7.4V
Battery type
2 - 3V CR123A lithium batteries
2 - 3.7V RCR123A batteries with protection circuit
Operation
Rear Tactical Button switch (foward clicky)
Body diameter
1"
Length
4.9"
Weight
2.6oz
Finish
Type III Milspec hard-anodized finish
Water Proof
Yes - IPX-8 Standard
Anti Roll
Yes


Model
Wolf Eyes Champion Digital
Housing Material
Aerospace grade aluminum
Output Power
Up to 280 Lumens
Continuous Runtime
1 x LRB168B: 70 minuites with regulated output ; 40 minutes with unregulated output.
2 x Cr123A: 80 minuites with regulated output ; 4 hours with unregulated output
Lamp assembly
Cree Premium (Q5) 7090 XR-E LED with lifespan of 50,000 hours
Reflector
OP
WorkingVoltageRange
3.7 - 6V
Battery type
2-CR123 or 1-LRB168B Li-ion
Body diameter
21mm
Bezel diameter
24.2mm
Length
130.80mm
Weight
76g (without battery)
Finish
Low temperature (-20℃) hard - anodized (HA) finish treatment *HAIII*
Water Proof
IPX-8 standard
Anti Roll
Yes

IMG_0002.jpg

From left to right: Surefire A2 -WE Champion digital - EagleTac P10C2 - Surefire L1

Initial Impressions:

Both lights have forward clickies and are HAIII hard anodized. They both weigh 3.9 oz with CR123 batteries. They both have a great finish with the EagleTac having just a slightly higher sheen (gloss, etc). I also like the SS bezel ring on the EagleTac . . . nice touch. They both have impressive output, especially for their size (I know, I say that a lot!). This light, as you can see in the above photo, is an easy EDC. One of the things I really like about my A2 Aviator is the slim form factor and length/thickness ratio. Both of these lights are shorter and thinner than the A2 and have that same, nice ratio. They don't look short and fat like the L1 and they don't look long and bulimic like those 2xAA lights. These lights would be 'sportin' next to a detective's shield and handcuff case on the belt.

IMG_0006.jpg

IMG_0007.jpg

IMG_0008.jpg

All above are pics of the EagleTac. The hefty SS head is once piece

IMG_0009.jpg

IMG_0010.jpg

IMG_0012.jpg

The three above pics are of the Wolf Eyes Champion

UI:

EagleTac: Strobe/SOS haters, I'll never understand or agree with you but I can be objective when it comes to these reviews, and to simplicity. :naughty: This one has simplicity. You get momentary operation with a partial press (tactical) and you click it for continuous operation. Twist the head tight for high and untwist slightly for low. Simple, period. That same twisting will unscrew the head and it wasn't the smoothest feeling threading but not at all bad. You have to turn it ALL the way tight for high. It takes VERY little twisting to get it on low (roughly 2mm from fully tightened and it's on low).

Champion: Even though this is the "digital" version, none of the functions of this light are programmable. A non digital model is available. Don't worry, they did a great job choosing the output levels for you. It has the exact same operation and sequence as the P7 Sniper. Since I'm sure not everyone has a P7 Sniper (yet) I'll explain how that works in detail. The three preset intensities are very diverse and the low is extremely LOW. Comparing it to my LOD on the ceiling, the hotspot is half the size and even lower than the LOD's low!! The SOS, strobe and beacon are contained in the "hidden" menu and I'll get to that below. This light has a forward clicky with multiple modes which takes a little getting used to if you've never had a UI like this one. The first press, whether momentary or clicked, gets you high (okay, it doesn't get YOU "high" but the light output is HIGH). If you want it on medium or low, you have to half press (or full press fast enough, if you're into that) until it arrives at your mode, then fully click to lock it on with the chosen intensity. If you subsequently want to change the mode after it's been on for more than two seconds, you would need to turn it off, then either half press or just turn it on and off repeatedly. Or you could turn it off and wait two seconds and start over. Wolf Eyes has come up with an excellent system to please both those not so fond of SOS/STROBE and us normal people.:nana: It would be extremely difficult to accidentally end up with the strobe, sos or beacon (this light has all 3). To enter the "hidden" menu, as they call it for strobe/sos/beacon, you have to press/cycle 7 times. For example if you want strobe from the light being off you would half press through TWO cycles of HI-MED-LO then the seventh press would give you strobe. Once you do this you are now locked into the hidden menu and it will cycle STROBE-SOS-BEACON instead of HI-MED-LOW. At this point the ONLY way back to the other world is to shut it off for 2 seconds.

Logistics:

EagleTac: The EagleTac can only be carried bezel up with the clip, which is removable with a firm pull. It's an open "C" as opposed to a full, closed ring. The clip is too short and not well centered. I found it took two hands to get it on my thick belt (because it doesn't "flare out" much at the tip) and once on, the head rides too high and the clip barely reaches the bottom of my belt because it's short. To be fair, my L1 is just as difficult to put on that same belt. Once on it has good spring tension and seems to hold firmly. The EagleTac is a little top heavy due to the SS head vs. the aluminum body but it can tailstand with some stability. The tailcap's threads feel a little rougher than the head's threads but overall, not bad . . . similar to Fenix. I tried a little Deoxit but there was no change. There is one O-ring on each end. The reflector is deep, highly polished and has a light OP finish. The LED is well centered. Except for the threads and the clip's position (it's too close to the center of the light) it's a well designed light with a good, high quality feel. The lettering is very well done. The knurling is mostly for looks as it's fairly smooth. However, the light doesn't seem too slippery . . . the slight increase in diameter in the head and tail should keep it from slipping out of your hand anyway (dogbone effect? can I coin that phrase?). It comes with a lanyard and a nylon case. The case is not designed for a belt though as it has a plastic D ring at the top and no place to loop a belt through. No box . . . the packaging is very similar to the newer Surefires. The EagleTac can accept two CR123's or RCR123's. It did not work with my flat top 17670. A button top would have worked but the working voltage starts at 4v so you probably don't want to use a single lion cell anyway. Spring tension on the battery comes from the tailcap only. The positive contact is flush so button cells will be required. I don't have any RCR123's so I was only able to test it with CR123 primaries. It draws 1 amp (1000ma) on high.

Champion: The Champion has a better clip. It's bezel down and well positioned. When I mentioned in the opening that a detective would look good with one of these clipped next to a shield, I was talking more of the Champion. I was able to clip it to my belt with one hand with a small amount of effort to get it started. The clip has good spring tension and I feel confident I'm not going to lose it when wearing it on my side. The Champion cannot tailstand due to the protruding button but in return you get a strike bezel (I verified with Mike that it is in fact a strike bezel). The threads on the head were good and very good on the tail. The light arrived with the tailcap on so tight I thought I was going to break it! There is a single O-ring in the head and two in the tail. The clip is removable by first removing the larger O-ring. The light was packaged in the usual WE way: A nice padded box suitable for giving. This light has the typical Wolf Eyes quality look, feel and construction which many here have compared to Surefire. The letting is very well done. The reflector is similar in all ways to the EagleTac's and the LED is well centered. The knurling is similar to the EagleTac's . . . maybe just a tiny bit rougher but I still consider it smooth. Like the EagleTac, even it if it was slippery, the "dogbone" design (I coined that phrase, see above) would make it tough to slip out of your hand. It fits the hand very well. The Champion can accept 2 CR123 primaries or a single 17670. NO RCR123's allowed. Flattops work fine as there is a spring for the top contact. It draws .8 amp (800ma) on high from the primaries and .7 amp (700ma) on high with the 17670 lion.

In the hands of . . . "babes?"

I took a little walk over to my neighbor's house. This is the same house usually being struck by my lights on any given "test" night. He's a mechanic but to him a good flashlight is (or was) a stock Mag. I'm slowly converting him but there is no "passion" there. Great. This makes the PERFECT subject to hand a couple of lights to for comparison and opinion. The rules were I would give him each one and say nothing. The EagleTac went first. He liked the clicky and after a few seconds he found the high/low label. He searched around for a button but quickly figured it all out. He was highly impressed by the output and appreciated the low too. I show him all of my lights so he's not a total newbie but he was genuinely impressed. Then came the Champion. It took him a while to work the modes and he only found the hidden mode with my help. He ended up liking the Champion more because it had THREE levels. He's always a little taken back when he hears the prices of the lights I show him . . . but no so much this time. He either saw the value or he's accepted that I've lost it. So the Champion won this little test. He gladly traded a little output for the three modes and he liked the fact it had the extra hidden modes too. Bezel down carry was also his preference but he was glad both clips are removable.

Great White Wall hunting:

ETceiling.jpg

Above is the EagleTac P10C2

WEceiling.jpg

Above is the Wolf Eyes Champion

The beamshots should tell the story but hey . . I was there IN PERSON! These lights are throwers and have little, usable spill. The beam on the EagleTac is really nice. It's not very ringy at all and it has a cool white tint.. It's a very nice beam and white-wallers will be pleased, I'm sure. The Champion's beam is a little ringy. The tint is a warm white. They both looked great outdoors. Speaking of outdoors, I'm going to dump all of the beamshots on you now. Captions will appear BELOW each photo. Camera settings were manual. I'm still learning the Canon Rebel XT so what I did was pull one light measurement for each distance and left it there. White balance was auto so you might see some tint variances in the combo shots. Since these lights are new and may not have many familiar equals, I included a P3D on TURBO in some of the shots. This should give you a good reference point. At 100 feet the P3D was too far below the performace of these so it didn't make the cut beyond 50 feet.



EThigh25.jpg

EagleTac high - 25 feet


WEhi25.jpg

Champion Hi - 25 feet


WEhi_rechg25.jpg

This is a shot of the Champion with the 17670 cell at 25 feet.


ETleft_WEright25.jpg

EagleTac left - Champion right - 25 feet

ETleft_FXright25.jpg

EagleTac left - P3D right - 25 feet

WEleft_FXright25.jpg

Champion left - P3D right - 25 feet

WEmed25.jpg

Here's a shot of the Champion on medium with CR123's

WEmed_rechg25.jpg

And here's a shot of the Champion on medium with the 17670.

Moving to 50 feet:


EThigh50.jpg

EagleTac Hi - 50 feet

WEhigh50.jpg

Champion - Hi - 50 feet

ETleft_WEright50.jpg

EagleTac left - Champion right - 50 feet

ETleft_FXright50.jpg

EagleTac left - P3D right - 50 feet

WEleft_FXright50.jpg

Champion left - P3D right - 50 feet


Moving to 100 feet:

EThigh100.jpg

EagleTac Hi - 100 feet

WEhigh100.jpg

Champion Hi - 100 feet

ETleft_WEright100.jpg

EagleTac left - Champion right - 100 feet


What the heck is an M60F doing in here? Well, I discovered that my SF L04 beam diffuser fits perfectly on the EagleTac. It fits on the Champion too but not securely enough. So I thought it would be fun to compare it to my Malkoff M60F to the EagleTac with the beam diffuser at 35 feet. It's not as bright but it does try to hold it's own against the M60F. Unless the L04 causes a large light loss, the beamshot does confirm that the 290 claimed lumens are just not happening but the L04 did manage to turn it into a decent flood.

Malkf_M60F35.jpg

Malkoff M60F - 35 feet

ET_diffusr35.jpg

EagleTac with L04 beam diffuser at 35 feet

PWM:

The Champion is using PWM for sure but it appears the EagleTac doesn't. I can't speak for PWM sensitive people because I'm not one of them. My test method is highly scientific and currently being sought by the military . . . . okay, I pointed them at a fan. The Champion made the blades stop on it's low modes, the EagleTac did not.

Conclusions (the battle Royale):

I can try the old duck and cover move and say "they're both winners" but I'm not going to do that. Wait a sec . . . . yeah, I think I will. They're both WINNERS! What this competition slash review (that's competition/review) showed me is the wonders of choice. They're very similar in size but at the same time different enough to justify the they're both winners cop-out (all right, under recent pressure I'll declare a winner by small margin, keep reading, it's almost over). The EagleTac P10C2 is the clear winner in beam quality and output. My current draw readings back that up. The clip is much better on the Champion and I'm not saying this because I prefer bezel down. The EagleTac's clip is poorly placed on the body, too short, and I'm not sure if I like the pull away C clip feature. The EagleTac can tailstand . . . always a plus for power outages. The Champion can bezel strike, always a plus for . . . bezel striking! The Champion also has 3 levels with a nice low low, and of course the well loved SOS/Strobe/beacon. The SOS is well timed too . . . here's a little movie clip of the P7's SOS timing from my P7 review! The EagleTac has the KISS twist feature that I'm sure will play well for people who don't want all of the bells and whistles. The EagleTac wins some points for size as it's a tiny bit shorter. They both win in that they are rated for rechargeable batteries (but the EagleTac calls for 2 RCR123's which you CANNOT use in the Champion). They both have forward clickies. They both are very well crafted and will not disappoint any of our high end light aficionados. Okay, I promised a winner: While the EagleTac P10C2 looks a little prettier, shines prettier and has the higher output, by the narrowest margin, I chose the Champion for it's increased versatility (3 modes, hidden modes, 17670, clip). Buy them both and YOU be the judge!!
 
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Those 2 are pretty well matched - that makes a very good and useful comparison review. Moving to the Reviews section.
 
i just got the eagletac, very nice. After reading the review, i think i would make the same decision on the fact that the champion cannot take rcr123's ,, i definetely want to use rechargables.
 
Great review. Easy to read and timely. I think I will get one of them.
 
Great review, nice beam shots too. I agree that the Champion would be a great light for a Detective.

i just got the eagletac, very nice. After reading the review, i think i would make the same decision on the fact that the champion cannot take rcr123's ,, i definetely want to use rechargables.
You can use a rechargeable 17670 with the Champion but not 2 x RCR123's and it appears that the Edgetac is the opposite, so you can definately use rechargables with the Champion.
 
HMMMMM.... highly suspect!!

hehe.... good looking review :)

I noticed that the Eagletac is pulling a full amp on 2xCR123s. Which equates to about 5+ watts of consumption. Their lumen claims may actually be accurate with that much juice flowing (at least, emitter lumen wise), provided those CR123s you tested with are on the fresher side of the compost heap, and the driver is fairly efficient, (it should be, as it's a buck regulator).

I also noticed that on the champion, you were getting 800mA and 700mA on the CR123s and 17670 respectively. This is disappointing to me, as it means it is not pushing anything close to full output when used with the 18650 it was designed for. When you reduce voltage and the current drops also, that means it has dropped out of regulation completely. On "high" with CR123s it's running at over 4W consumption, on "high" with 1x17670, it's running closer to 2.5W. Major disappointment... oh well, 2.5W is still nice and bright on a modern cree and it'll run for hours that way.

I must ask though, was that 17670 cell fresh from the charger for that test?

The eagletac gets a pass as this one is advertised as being designed for 2xRCR123/CR123, and is not designed around the 18650 concept...

--------------------------------

One last thought- would you be willing to test the champion's power consumption on a freshly charged 18650? (use your Emoli cells if you don't have any regular 18650s, it's the same voltage range) Curious to see if it gets up around an amp or not. WE has some pretty big lumen claims, I'm beginning to wonder if any of them are remotely true when the modules are used on a single 18650 cell.

--------------------------

Thanks for doing this :)

Eric
 
Thanks to all for the compliments. It means a lot to me and it's the only thing that makes me want to do more reviews. It's a LOT more work than I had first thought. I probably spent 8 to 10 hours on this one so far.

Eric, these lights cannot take 18650's. Look how skinny they are! The A2 is fatter! Yes, I too was surprised to see the freshly charged WE 17670 (they call it the LRB-168B) show LESS current. I expected it to draw MORE. But all in all I feel the Champion, on primaries, held it's own with the EagleTac. The EagleTac cannot take a 17670. It's only rechargeable option is two RCR123's. So IIRC that's only 800 ma and with a 1 amp draw (which might be less with the higher voltage) will give a much lower runtime than the Champion on a 1500ma single cell lion or 1400ma with primaries.

There's always a little "gotcha" with every new thing (not just lights) that comes along!!
 
Terrific "compare and contrast" review, Wattnot. Thanks for all your work on this.

I've been feeling the itch towards a P10C2, but your review has pointed out some drawbacks to the clip which concern me. Also, in another review, Mev/x2x3x2 got 38 minutes on 2xRCR123A till shutdown, which is a bit less than I was hoping for.

Oh well, the bug still bites...I'm always a sucker for a pretty face....I mean bezel.....:devil:
 
oh- I did not notice that the Champion was a non-18650 light. A second look at the specs and it's clear to me, this was intended as a CR123 powered light.

However, WE is selling it in a 17670 powered (168B) kit, and I believe that the same LED D26 module is likely being sold in other 6 series light that are based around 18650 compatibility. So this is evidence IMO that these modules lack any form of regulation on single li-ion cells. Oh well...

I guess I'm very "hung up" on the concept that they need to be regulated. They really don't NEED to be, but it still bothers me. The R2 emitters are still remarkably bright in the 300-750mA drive range, pushing them into the 1+ amp range isn't really necessary for most peoples needs.
 
and I believe that the same LED D26 module is likely being sold in other 6 series light that are based around 18650 compatibility.
I may have misunderstood your post, but it appears that you may have mistaken that the D26 and Champion drop ins are not the same. The Champion takes a D21 drop in (which appears to have been specifically designed for the Champion) and is very different in appearance to the D26. All that said I don't know this affects the internals of the drop ins or regulation.
 
Great fair review Wattnot :goodjob:

Spot on Keeper, the Champion's D21 was designed for it. It is a different make up to the D26, recognisable by the UI. I also am not sure of the regulation differences.
 
Didn't realize it had a D"21", that's a new concept, hehe...

Oh well, lack of regulation on 1xli-ion claim still stands :)

Eric
 
Yes, the drop-in the Champion uses looks proprietary but I bet it catches on! As for regulation, I'm assuming the Champion is using the seemingly common 3.8-6v buck only driver. I believe the wider the voltage range, the tougher it is to get maximum output and efficiency right where you want it.
 
That's a great review! I do like the thinking behind the EagleTac with it's KISS way of doing things. The light physically looks better to my eye than the Champion but I also appreciate the slim designs of both lights. I see exactly what you mean when you say that they have "A2 ratios." That is a great observation.

:thanks:
 
Nice review!


Question, was the P3D the Q5 version?
 
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