RGB/High Power

sdman

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
10
Who makes the highest power/ brightest RGB in one package?
Also highest power single leds, Red,Green,Amber/Yellow?
I've searched but haven't come up with anything yet.

I'm a newbie and maybe some of you with all the experience will
be able to help me.

Thanks,

Sam
 
Arrow lighting has a parametric search page listing many, many parts from all of the suppliers we represent. Unfortunately, not all of those products will be available online, as we don't stock everything, but it should give you a good idea of what's out there:

http://lighting.arrow.com/search/parametric/hb_led/

I recommend you look at AGB as well as RGB, since some manufacturers differ as to what is Amber and what is Red/Orange.
 
I'm sorry to be a *******, but it's not the W going in to the LED that is interessting but the lm going out of the LED. :twothumbs
 
for a single small item, i am interested in the atlas for that high powered RGB single star item.
http://www.ledsupply.com/docs/Atlas.pdf

but of course there are many others type style price and connection type, having a common connection can be a Pain depending on how you intend to connect.

then this thing is interesting
http://www.ledsupply.com/07007-rgb-01-3.php
the new rebels all starring together.

this is not interesting :) its less output , and more money, and still a common connect
http://www.moreleds.com/rgbufo.pdf

now you did say single Package :)
http://www.ledsupply.com/bl-nt-53f0-0428.php
and that of course is a single ARRAY still.
 
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I would go for a P5 single package RGB LED;
http://www.optoga.se/page_view.jsp?pageid=0000000000000sd&lang=en_US

This makes it very compact and you can also use 1pcs of 2nd optics (lens). A big advantage with using a singel packate RGB LED is that the distance between the 3 dies (chips) are very small = you will get a nice colour mix. That is something that is very hard ot do with multiple packages.
 
I would go for a P5 single package RGB LED;
http://www.optoga.se/page_view.jsp?pageid=0000000000000sd&lang=en_US

This makes it very compact and you can also use 1pcs of 2nd optics (lens). A big advantage with using a singel packate RGB LED is that the distance between the 3 dies (chips) are very small = you will get a nice colour mix. That is something that is very hard ot do with multiple packages.


Opto-King, I have found that when I use single package RGB LEDS with optics I have been very disappointed with the color mixing. If I take it out of focus it is better, but I find that I have as much if not more color issues versus using separate optics close together. The other issue with 3 die in a single package tends to be the worse thermal issues. The heat from the Green and Blue really kills the light output of the RED. When doing color changes, I had to make sure my algorithms took into account the likely package temperature. I was not in a situation where closed loop was possible.

Semiman
 
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Thank's guys, you have supplied a lot of info for me to digest.

Sam
 
Opto-King, I have found that when I use single package RGB LEDS with optics I have been very disappointed with the color mixing. If I take it out of focus it is better, but I find that I have as much if not more color issues versus using separate optics close together. The other issue with 3 die in a single package tends to be the worse thermal issues. The heat from the Green and Blue really kills the light output of the RED. When doing color changes, I had to make sure my algorithms took into account the likely package temperature. I was not in a situation where closed loop was possible.

Semiman
Semiman, I agree with you that some lenses are very poor in mixing the colours, but there are some good leds that has a "front glass" which mixes the colours nicely.

Regarding the heat discussion, it depends on your application. Since, some applications you need a lot of light and then you will (by using a 3die package) be able to put in more LEDs in the application and there of getting a higher total light output. But, I agree with your point that the dies heat up each other.
 
Semiman, I agree with you that some lenses are very poor in mixing the colours, but there are some good leds that has a "front glass" which mixes the colours nicely.

Regarding the heat discussion, it depends on your application. Since, some applications you need a lot of light and then you will (by using a 3die package) be able to put in more LEDs in the application and there of getting a higher total light output. But, I agree with your point that the dies heat up each other.


As the RED takes such a hit in light output when the temperature is high, I find that by using seperate packages, I can run Green and Blue harder without worrying about killing the light output from the RED. With single package if I am running the Blue\Green hard and the want to switch to RED, the light output that can be achieved is significantly less compared to using seperate packages.

On the lenses, I generally use diffusion film no matter the lens. On the wider lenses the mixing is pretty good, but narrow lenses are very problematic.

Semiman
 
Any suggestions on films and lens?
I would like to get the best color mixing that I can.
I've already had problems with color mixing with the
smaller wattage LEDs.

sam
 
color mixing isnt easy, try the fastcar diffusion material, ON the top of the tiny emitter, then optics right after. difusing after optics works but then its very floody very fast.
if you can blend before concanting , it will act more like you have white diffuse emitter down there to begin with.
either way its VERY hard to get perfect white in a spotty beam, as mentioned.
if your intention was a spot light, the blending or "converging" is probably the biggest problem, wherin the tighter emitters in the package will make the best initial choice.
 
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I am totally ignorant of RGB led mixing. Anyone a 101 crash course or thread concerning flashlights that use this and their efficiency. I am interested in two things: the efficiency verses the phosphor (can this be done to get more than 100 lumens at 1 watt?_; and, why not simply use a triple shot head with narrow focus to mix the colors?

It seems to me that this approach would possibly remove any phosphor loss factor.
 
Perhaps, for a flashlight, mixing would be best with a triple shot head (one color per side with a magnifying focuser, like dorcy or energizer. This would allow super throw, perhaps better than R2 efficiency. By having the wider separation, one would eliminate compexity and cost of trying to put so close together on one chip. --Not sure if what I am suggesting makes practical sense, or if done already.
 
crash course "its impossible" :)
converging a trio will still have splotchyness, but trios be they optics or relfectors cometogether rather nicely when WHITE, with rgb you would expect to see a trio of blotches that overlap.

more work needs to be done on it, in general, its not attempted very often for 2 reasons, getting "white" is hard without floodyness. and "white" leds use phosphors, the use of phosphors make the led capable of achiving the high lumen per watts, almost as high as CCT and other florescent, which USE phosphors to achieve that.
RGB doesnt yet have phosphors that i know of. that isnt available to us yet, colored leds that are using phosphors, but if you wanted to revolutionise LEDs one more time :) figure out how to do colors with phosphors, and different inital gate colors.

a converging system of a trio, would be converged AT some distance, not always converged. also how blended to white you "need" is relative, do you need it good enough to point at a white wall, or just good enough to be usable.

best thing you can do is get a few item, and do experimentation.
even if you made a light that only does 3 color splotches, you can have 3 drivers and make cool colors, or difuse the heck out of the front and have a darn good spectrum, that is floody. and it would still be usable and different and cool.

you cant "compete" with white in rgb without phosphors though. and RGB cant "compete" with "white" leds yet in visual spectrum, and color control, two different worlds used (at present) for 2 different things.

what I did was use 3 (and then 4) RGB items, and rotate them , which made "white" more just because then i had 9&12 emitting things not just 3. The disco type lights and area lights that use RGB do so with many emitting things (100+), so they get better blending too, but all of them are very floody
 
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I would like one of these (RGB?) to play with ;)

Interesting, I wonder if those are the huge units being use to light up big locations, such as the CN Tower in Toronto, or the "Minx" nightclub at the 134/Santa Monica Freeway interchange near Glendale, CA? I wonder about the yellow color, looks like phosphor over everything, but I suspect they are just recycling the pics of their white ones.

Does anybody know anything about the RGB LED in this? I have one of these and took a look inside; the LED is a four-pin emitter with a milky dome. I couldn't see any other identifiers, and won't likely disassemble it again as this is the only light I have that has given up some magic smoke and lived (the emitter is socketed in an unkeyed four-pin connector, and can therefore be inserted in three wrong ways to one right one -- so scribe it before you pull it ;P)

It uses PWM to modulate the colors, and it never illuminates more than one die at a time; it achieves color by varying the slice of on time each emitter gets. This results in some interesting color strobing effects with moving items illuminated by this light, such as fans and running water. The red die seems to be the most visibly powerful, and also the hungriest for current, pulling just over 600mA from the batteries when the light is set to all red; green pulls about 270mA, blue about 380mA.
 
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