S.O.S. and Strobe? Are you kidding me? They annoyingly get in the way.

Im not against the functions even being available, im against them being available on any non-programable light that im interested in buying, at least without some way to disable it. I hate having 2 of 5 modes i click through very annoying and useless.

Are there any polls?
 
Im not against the functions even being available, im against them being available on any non-programable light that im interested in buying, at least without some way to disable it. I hate having 2 of 5 modes i click through very annoying and useless.

Are there any polls?
Again, why would you ever HAVE to click through them? Most of the time they are at the END of the sequence, and you have no need to cycle the UI that far unless you intend to use them.
 
Again, why would you ever HAVE to click through them? Most of the time they are at the END of the sequence, and you have no need to cycle the UI that far unless you intend to use them.

Because a lame User Interface FORCES me to click through them! Either that or else shut off the light and wait long enough for it to reset. Some of my Fenix lights and my MiniMagLed 2ndGen lights have this kind of UI.

Strobe and SOS are great options to have so long as the User Interface is well designed.

My definition of well designed:

-user will never see the Strobe or SOS functions UNLESS INTENTIONALLY ACTIVATED.

and

-user will never have to TRANSITION through Strobe or SOS to reach a desired output level.

.
 
Because a lame User Interface FORCES me to click through them! Either that or else shut off the light and wait long enough for it to reset. Some of my Fenix lights and my MiniMagLed 2ndGen lights have this kind of UI.

Strobe and SOS are great options to have so long as the User Interface is well designed.

My definition of well designed:

-user will never see the Strobe or SOS functions UNLESS INTENTIONALLY ACTIVATED.

and

-user will never have to TRANSITION through Strobe or SOS to reach a desired output level.

.

The traditional Fenix UI for example resets, and NEVER forces you through strobe/SOS. Low, medium, high, and turbo come first, before any flashy mode.

I also believe Mag has no memory, so it would be the same.
 
The traditional Fenix UI for example resets, and NEVER forces you through strobe/SOS. Low, medium, high, and turbo come first, before any flashy mode.

I also believe Mag has no memory, so it would be the same.

You are correct.

Mag sequence: HIGH LOW STROBE SOS.

The issue: suppose the Mag is running in LOW ouput and the user needs to switch to HIGH output.

Fast option: rapidly twisting the head six times to cycle from Low to Strobe to SOS and finally to High.

Slow option: twisting the head once for off, waiting for the light to reset, then twisting the head for High.

Both options are rather lame IMO.

.
 
1) yes, mag is lame, no news there
2) if you needed high, why did you turn to low? 9 times out of 10 you turn you light to the appropriate setting to handle the task, and turn off when done. If you find yourself routinely needing to go both up and down in brightness, you need a light which is designed to easily go BOTH up and down in brightness to match your needs. Right tool for the right job...
 
A reverse clicky easily goes between high and low and is a light which is designed to easily go BOTH up and down in brightness to match your needs, untill you add strobe and sos. Genius right! Right tool for the right jobs
 
Who said such a light requires a reverse clicky? There are plenty of lights which easily change brightness in either direction. NiteCore, Surefire, Dosun, and Fenix all make such lights.

But for direct access to both low and high, Fenix, Nitecore, and 4Sevens just to name a few offer such lights. You just change the head position to alternate.
 
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For the lights that dont have programable UI it would be nice if they had a tiny switch inside to get rid of strobe modes and the absolutely useless sos. It could even be one of those tiny switches you need a pen or screwdriver to flip. Pennies of cost.
I think that is a great idea. User can have it either way.
Because a lame User Interface FORCES me to click through them!...

Strobe and SOS are great options to have so long as the User Interface is well designed.

My definition of well designed:
-user will never see the Strobe or SOS functions UNLESS INTENTIONALLY ACTIVATED.

and
-user will never have to TRANSITION through Strobe or SOS to reach a desired output level.
Agreed.
 
I think that is a great idea. User can have it either way.
COST!!
... willing to pay an extra fee for this?

also adds complexity and an additonal part that eventually will fail, when needed most

1: as most of the "problems" with strobe/SOS mentionned here, come from cheap lights (= 5-mode and remember last setting so to really be forced to go through all levels), how high is the chance such a switch will raise the - already quite high - "chance of failure" of these lights?

2: When not like the UI, why have bought that specific light?
:thinking:
 
I'm with LED Thrift. Good suggestion. I'm definitely a newby, but I'm not a newby about the use of flashlights. There are so many categories of flashlight users that I think it would be impossible to even do reasonable surveys of the need for SOS and STROBE so that manufacturesrs and marketers could asses the actual need and desire of such functions. I think that yes; it does no harm to have them as long as they are easily accesible when needed and also do not interfere in any way with a simple user UI. Basically wot LED Thrift sed. It's kinda like making a first rate combat dagger with a swiss army knife attached, just in case you have to camp out for a couple of days. Some people no doubt love the idea, some don't. I guess strobe and sos re here to stay for the moment, unless there's a revolt.
 
I fully agree that you should never be forced to click through SOS and blink. However, assuming you don't have to click through them, what harm do the modes do? It's not like having a blink adds weight to the light, or reduces battery life. I even doubt that it increases cost, since adding the programming into the microcontroller is basically free. Indeed, there may someday be a situation where having a SOS might be useful, even if the majority of users never need it. I think the upcoming Preon lights have the right idea-- the functionality is there, but accessing it takes a deliberate effort that is unlikely to occur in normal use.

As for "tactical" lights, I don't know. If you want a disorienting strobe to use against an attacker, it's useless if it's not accessible instantly. However, the user certainly doesn't want the strobe to come on every time the light is turned on. Perhaps the only real solution would be a dedicated hardware switch/position to activate the strobe.
 
1) yes, mag is lame, no news there
2) if you needed high, why did you turn to low? 9 times out of 10 you turn you light to the appropriate setting to handle the task, and turn off when done. If you find yourself routinely needing to go both up and down in brightness, you need a light which is designed to easily go BOTH up and down in brightness to match your needs. Right tool for the right job...

1) Please don't descend into gratuitous Mag bashing. Mag is lame but Fenix isn't - even though they have essentially the same UI?

2) Guessing that your point here is that lights with lame User Interfaces don't make good general purpose lights?

I agree with that point, but think it's a shame that so many nearly good lights are kept from being good by a lame User Interface. Most frequently that lameness is due to gratuitous inclusion of Strobe and SOS in the main UI sequence.

.
 
The sos on some lights is way too slow, the light ends up being off for quite a long time between blinks so someone could miss it if it was moving, and actually reading the signal takes a while, id proabably do the sos myself instead of that mode. Also it stays on for a long time so you can think you turned your light to another mode...............and then it blinks off.
 
I am a firearms, rifle and defensive tactics instructor. I have been on my agencies emergency response team for over ten years. I have taken many classes on tactical handgun, urban rifle, building searches, threat resolution... I can think of at least three times when strobe was specifically worked into drills and the topic of instruction. I have a training partner who is an adjunct instructor for a private firm that teaches defensive tactics to law enforcement, military and private contractors. He uses the strobe mode specifically in his class. We have conducted in-service training in low light building searches where strobe mode was used as a technique. I am saying this to answer his specific question, not write a bio. I have attended training on strobe tactics and taught tactics on strobe use. Going into that in any more depth would be drifting too far from the topic.

Strobe mode and a steady light in the face achieve two different goals. A bright steady light takes the eyes out of the equation. It is great and can help a great deal in dynmaic encounters. The suspect can shield their eyes or look at the ground. They can use shadows and reflected light to still track your movements and work toward their goals. Strobe mode goes a step further and disorients a person. They loose their ability to properly judge distance and movement. Reflected light and shadows become unpredictable and chaotic. If you are running at someone for a take down with a steady light they can judge your distance and time their response. If you run at someone using angles and moving a strobe in different directions it disorients them considerably and the moment of contact is a surprise. If they are surprised and the proper techniques are applied you can wrap someone up before they can mount a defense. That means less injuries for the officer and the suspect. I have used it in training and fought many suspects using a steady light and a strobe. There is a difference. Either you believe me or you don't. Don't make a judgment if you have not trained both ways and applied it in the field.

Another great use for strobe is when you are working with a K9 officer running tracks. We have to work with helicopters and when you are a small dot in an urban sea of structures, vehicles and other police lights you can get lost. Using the strobe to signal the pilot is a great help so they can vector you in to an area or track your position.

My only point in all this is that strobe does have real world uses. They might not be for the masses, but there are benefits. It comes down to the consumer. If you don't like strobe and don't have a use for it, don't buy it. Voice your concerns with the manufactures. If you have a use for it then buy it. That is the beauty of our economic system. The market drives the products.

This is the first post I have seen regarding this issue with documented LEO training in strobe use. Hey, more tools in the ol batbelt and I'm glad it seems to work. That being said, I have a hard time because the strobe makes the suspects movements seem disorienting and jumpy, even if he's disoriented too. Obviously tactics play a role, but I have had no success because of what it did to my vision. I am for a including as much as possible, but only if I get what I want, when I want it.

If I use a low mode to search a car, then need super firesword mode because I need to light up the two fighting 50 yards away, I don't want to have to pass strobe to get there. There are times you would be on another mode and need a different one right away. M30 gets it close, but no cigar. From reading this extensive post, am I correct the only light with an independant mode selector and power switch is the Jetbeam? This seems to be the best of both worlds: function selection on the ring independent of the power switch. You can put it on whatever mode you want instantly then power up the light. Want strobe, you got it, then turn it back. Don't nee it? Never have to turn the dial to this setting. Sounds like the perfect UI to me.

BTW, I would never use strobe to signal a drunk driver. Drunks are attracted to light, not deterred. They drift right over and will crash into you. That's why the California Highway Patrol has their takedown light on the spotlight and turns off their rear lights, too many rear end collisions with drunks. I too have been rear ended by a drunk on the freeway. I didn't know this at the time and he was attracted to my lights. A drunk on foot, sure, it probably works great.
 
If I use a low mode to search a car, then need super firesword mode because I need to light up the two fighting 50 yards away, I don't want to have to pass strobe to get there.

[...]

You can put it on whatever mode you want instantly then power up the light. Want strobe, you got it, then turn it back. Don't nee it? Never have to turn the dial to this setting. Sounds like the perfect UI to me.
Gladius used to work like this. Even better, you could set it to low and then turn the selector to the high position: it would remain on low but be ready to give it full blast, just like the situation you describe.

Shame they never updated it. A Gladius with 295 lumens out the front would be one hell of a light.
 
Fenix, Nitecore, Dosun, and Surefire all offer lights with selector rings which are seperate from the switch.

Since we are on the topic of strobe, I'm assuming these have it as one of the settings on the selector ring as well? To me, personal opinion as LE only, this would be the only way I would have strobe on my light. They are good for getting someone's attention. Apparantly there are some new tactics using strobe, but without proper training, it seems it may do more harm than good. The selector ring is nice because you don't have to cycle modes and can instantly move it to the setting you want without activating the others.
 
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...Most frequently that lameness is due to gratuitous inclusion of Strobe and SOS in the main UI sequence.
.
That's the main problem. It's not objection to strobe/SOS per se, but the forced inclusion in the main UI sequence.

I don't see a need for SOS and rarely for strobe. My Ra Clicky and HDS U60 have SOS and strobe, but it doesn't bother me -- it's not in the main sequence.

To my knowledge there's never been a documented case of a flashlight SOS mode saving anybody from anything. The probability is so low it doesn't warrant inclusion in the main UI sequence.

However many multi-mode lights are physically unable to *manually* flash SOS (or anything else). The momentary click just changes modes. You could argue the UI design which precludes manual SOS justifies an automatic SOS mode to compensate.

Strobe has more obvious uses, e.g, your car breaks down on the roadside and you need to alert oncoming vehicles.
 
I personally couldn't care less whether a flashlight had strobe, SOS, or blinked the lyrics to God Save The Queen. As long as the UI is such that I never have to see those modes if I don't want to.

What I want is a light that has two switches. Tailcap (single-hand use) that turns it on to High. Bezel that, if you twist it (without touching the tailcap), turns the flashlight to Low.

Oh, and if it's on in Low Power Mode, pressing the tailcap turns it to full power.

That way, for non-critical low-light functions, I can use two hands to use my flashlight. And for tactical functions, I can manipulate it on with one hand.
 
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