Safety of Lithium Primary AA's?

[Alan_L]

Does anyone know if lithium AA's (i.e. 1.7V Energizers) are as likely to have rapid venting with flame as lithium CR123's do, especially when used in series? I was thinking of keeping some in 2AA flashlights around the house and in the car for emergencies but if they have the same potential danger as using 2 CR123's in series, then it is not worth it to me. I looked through this forum and didn't see anything on the topic.

 

[Black Rose]

Does anyone know if lithium AA's (i.e. 1.7V Energizers) are as likely to have rapid venting with flame as lithium CR123's do, especially when used in series?

I previously asked the same question and was told that the Energizer Lithium AA/AAA cells are safe to use in series since they use a different chemical formula than the CR123A primary cells do.

There used to be another Lithium AA on the market that was sold by Battery Station that did have the explosive venting issue.

The Battery Station cells were taken off the market in 2006 I believe.

Someone said in a post last year that they had some Lithium AA cells explode but they never indicated what brand it was and no one here questioned them on it.

 

[Mr Happy]

Lithium primary AA's do have a high energy chemistry like CR123A cells, and they "could" explode in a confined space. Such events seem rather uncommon, but the cells still make me nervous nevertheless.

 

[ampdude]

Both the AA's and the CR123a chemistry can explode, I've seen many examples of both here and elsewhere. I don't know if one is a bit safer than the other or if they both pose the same risk, but I know they both explode.

 

[VidPro]

Both the AA's and the CR123a chemistry can explode, I've seen many examples of both here and elsewhere. I don't know if one is a bit safer than the other or if they both pose the same risk, but I know they both explode.

yes what he said. ^

what is the current draw your talking about? and what type of curcuit? what is the cutoff or non-operation voltage? that is what could be most important in determining the risk.
After all the item is designed to USE for stuff, just probably not assumed that it would be used so hard in some things. like high currents , with boost curcuits that dont slow down or cut a break to the cell, and instead increase the current draw. Or already high current draws.

we all have the mega-mini maxi lumen drain machines with built in heaters, and the lightweights too. the right item the risk would be very small to non-existing, the wrong item the risk much greater, even "out of spec" for the cell right from the start.

 

[Alan_L]

what is the current draw your talking about? and what type of curcuit? what is the cutoff or non-operation voltage? that is what could be most important in determining the risk.

I was just planning on using them in basic off-the-shelf 2AA flashlights, more specifically the Inova X2 and the 2AA Mini MagLED. I don't know the current draw of those two flashlights, but I don't think they are much more than 500mA.

 

[VidPro]

the energyser lithium AA have the most problems with currents over 2amps, and temperatures over 140*F, like a car allowed to get to freaking hot inside.
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf
just check out the data sheet, apply the Knowledge that is often the only thing were missing, and then you got everything you need.

i would say with the items mentioned you will have zero problems, as long as you react (with knowledge) when things dont act as they should.

if it doesnt work, then something is wrong, dont ignore it.
(could be a short or too high current)

if the level changes , then mabey something is wrong dont ignore it.
(mabey one cell is now dead, or current draw is to high, protection kicks in)

if one of the cells acts funkey, at least check its voltage.
(voltage doesnt tell everything, but it alone can still spot things going totally wackey)

if your going to let an automobile to get hot inside , then dont leave it in the auto, dont put it where direct sun will hit it.

Prefer not to do "runtime" test with freestanding high power lights , when a nice walk in the dark holding the light (removing the heat) is more fun anyway.

anyone else using the device, should be given the 3 minute lecture, if they dont like the 3 minute lecture, then give them alkalines

and when all else fails if you feel a rumbling inside , set it down and run :devil:

 

[march.brown]

I found this article on Lithium Cells and thought it might be of interest ... If it has already been posted then I appologise in advance.

http://www.electrochemsolutions.com/pdf/Safety_and_Handling_Guide.pdf

I was looking at Class D fire extinguishers and thought that it might be practical to put ordinary household Salt on a burning Lithium cell , but it seems that a copper based powder is better ... I was hoping that a tub of household Salt would have been a handy thing to keep near the Li-Ion charger , as a proper class D fire extinguisher is quite expensive.

The pages on Hot Cells and on Vented Cells are of particular interest.

The article is for Primary Cells but it still makes interesting reading.
.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello March.brown,

Sand has been proven to be very effective at putting out a lithium cell fire.

Early on in Li-Po charging, the RC people rigged up a plastic bag full of sand and suspended it above the battery packs they were charging. The idea was that if a cell caught on fire, it would melt the plastic and the sand would put the fire out. A few tests were done and it seemed to be effective.

Tom

 

[Slamfire]

Does anyone have a link to an venting incident with 2 lithium primary AA cells? Thanks.

 

[AnAppleSnail]

Don't short-circuit them.*
Don't keep them over the rated temperature (140F).**
Don't eat them.
Don't try to recharge them.


*Excessive battery wiggle in a flashlight where the body carries current can damage the cell wrapper enough to cause a short circuit in the rear cell. I think you'd need an unusually sharp battery tube and a paint shaker to do it this year though. Avoid current above 4 amps just out of common sense... The PTC usually kicks in above 2.0 Amps.

**Excess temperature damages the cell jacket, increasing the risk of short-circuit

The applications sheet I found cites a thermal switch that limits current above about 90C. A pressure relief vent activates at about 125C.

If you abuse the cell and it vents, it probably will not catch fire merely from venting. But the stuff coming out is surely not good for your eyes, and it may be flammable. You'd have to get the goods on the battery juice they use, and how it responds to 130C temperatures.

 

[Yamabushi]

The applications sheet I found cites a thermal switch that limits current above about 90C. A pressure relief vent activates at about 125C.

I don't know if the Energizer application manual I have is older or newer than yours (mine is dated "2009-2011") but it states that the PTC operates when the temperature exceeds 85°C and that the vent mechanism operates at ~150°C.

 

[fnj]

Does anyone have a link to an venting incident with 2 lithium primary AA cells? Thanks.

This. Reference has been made to accidents, but without citations ... fill in the blank.

 

[WriteAway]

In January, I installed a trio of Energizer Ultimate lithium AAAs in my Maglite XL50, and after three months of moderate use, the light began dropping down to the lower light level after only 10 seconds or so at full brightness. I checked the cells, and found one reading only .7V. I took the prudent action and tossed that cell.

I wonder what venting/explosion/fire danger might have happened if I continued using that light with that bad cell? I don't plan on testing this possibility, but my question appears to be somewhat similar to the OP's - so I thought I'd get some additional opinions regarding risks from Primary Lithium AAA cells. Many thanks.
WriteAway

 

[jon_slider]

This. Reference has been made to accidents, but without citations ... fill in the blank.

I still have questions about whether an Energizer Ultimate Lithium AAA is a risky proposition in a ONE cell flashlight that is sealed with an O ring, for example an Olight i3s.

Is Eneloop AAA any safer than Energizer Ultimate Lithium AAA, or a primary Alkaline AAA? Lets say for sake of example, that the flashlight is stored in the glovebox of a car. Bad idea? Worse idea with the Lithium than the NiMh? Alkaline AAA worse than the others?

What is the safest single AAA battery to put in a light that is stored in a car?

 

[ForrestChump]

Any battery can be dangerous if mistreated, but the paranoia of Lithium AA's is WAY to high in this thread. CR123's in series and rechargeable Li-ion's are responsible for incidences 99% of the time. However, if you follow the rules, you won't have a problem with them either.

Lithium AA's and AAA's are generally not dangerous at all without doing something extremely stupid.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?214954-CR123A-vs-hot-AZ-sun

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?277891-Eneloops-in-the-car-in-the-summer

 

[lunas]

NiMH, NiCd, Lithium any, Alkaline all will explode with varying pressures it is just a matter of how they got abused.

about the only non exploding type is a zinc air or brine battery mainly due to them being open.

Even capacitors will explode...

 

[lunas]

Safest is a strip of copper and zinc in a lemon.

 

[Big_Sam]

The Energizer L91 lithium AA have ATEX intrinsically safe certification now, can't get a link from phone, but an internet search will bring it up.

I've not seen that for any CR123A cells, so in my book it's safe enough to have around.

 

[ForrestChump]

Safest is a strip of copper and zinc in a lemon.

Tried that. Makes a terrible EDC....