Search after search and I give up!!! Simple question about charging an ARB L-2 battey

cheaperrooter

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Can you charge them at anytime or is it best to wait until they drain? CANNOT believe I can't find this info on any search threads here or on Google. Thanks
 

snakebite

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its a generic garden variety lico li-ion.
treat it as such.keep full for readiness or store long term at about 40%
 

cheaperrooter

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its a generic garden variety lico li-ion.
treat it as such.keep full for readiness or store long term at about 40%


HUH??? :) I am talking about everyday usage. Can it be charged at anytime or do I wait until it is out of juice to charge? Does it have memory? Is it bad to charge it at the end of the day if I only used say 15% of it? Thanks
 

TEEJ

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HUH??? :) I am talking about everyday usage. Can it be charged at anytime or do I wait until it is out of juice to charge? Does it have memory? Is it bad to charge it at the end of the day if I only used say 15% of it? Thanks

If its a rechargeable lithium ion cell, recharging it when only slightly drained is not only fine, its less wear and tear than if you waited for it to be drained. They don't have memory issues, that applies to cells such as NiCads...which DO have memory issues.

You should measure the voltage with a DMM, as fully charged, it will be ~ 4.2 v, and, draining them below ~ 2.5 v is too far, with most of us probably not taking most cells below ~ 3 - 3. 2 v if we can help it.
 

cheaperrooter

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Thank you both!!!! So charge it when I want too, frowning on waiting till its depleted or low. Thanks. I read on here via search threads they drain about 3% a month, so ok to wait 6 months or so to recharge a stored battery not used?

2600 version FYI
 

TEEJ

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Thank you both!!!! So charge it when I want too, frowning on waiting till its depleted or low. Thanks. I read on here via search threads they drain about 3% a month, so ok to wait 6 months or so to recharge a stored battery not used?

2600 version FYI

I don't have that cell, but, if you check it every month to see what it ACTUALLY is doing...under YOUR conditions, you will see for yourself. I have some that have gone ~ a year and were still over 4 v. Some drain a little faster, etc.
 

cheaperrooter

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True, very true. Now that i just bought the Fenix ARE-C2 it shows, so I will know for myself :)
 

mcnair55

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I charge mine at any time,mainly when they are flat and have been doing for years,never caused me any problems and the packet instructions never said any different.
 

SilverFox

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Efforts to maximize battery life are always interesting. The problem is that some things are impractical. To those "involved" with batteries to the Nth degree that doesn't stand in the way.

Li-Ion batteries will loose capacity if they are stored at full charge. The question is how long can they stay at full charge before they are considered "stored."

The RC people view "storage" as any time exceeding a few days. If you plan on not using your batteries for a week, they shouldn't be stored at full charge.

Applying that to flashlights brings us to the point of deciding how we plan to use these lights. If you have a light that is not is daily use and sits on the shelf for weeks at a time, you may not want to store it with a fully charged battery. At the other extreme if you are using a light every day and it has just enough battery to barely make it through the day, you charge it every day and want to start the day will a full charge.

I have several lights that I have on the shelf with batteries charged to 4.0 volts. When I need to use them I know that I only have about 80% of the total run time, but that is something I can live with. Since they are not stored at full charge I have seen very little degradation during storage. It is a little more effort to do this, but I think it is worth the effort.

Tom
 

cheaperrooter

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Now that just complicated the hell out of it!!! I was JUST going to ask, how long is considered long term storage? You answered it before I could ask. THANKS :) But geez....weeks would not NORMALLY be considered LONG TERM by any stretch.

I got all of my Fenix 2600 18650 about 6 months ago. Charged them all and they have been sitting there, ready to use. NOW, I am hearing, don't do that? That's just too confusing for real life applications. True if you say so, I do not doubt it. But true doesn't make it less harder to achieve. I have 17 of them. Adding in to compound the problem, I am a prepper, so of course, I always want everything to be in a "ready at a moments notice" condition. Not to mention to rectify this situation, I now have to partially drain out 17 batteries. Not really an easy task. But my newly aquired TK75 should make it easier for me now, putting it on high mode for 4 batteries at a time.

So I ask, really, is it worth it all? I mean if the life is NORMALLY 10 years and I reduced it to 7, then I could care less. But if I reduced it from 10 to say 2 or 3 years, then obviously I have some work to do!!!

And the MAIN question is, is it too late? Was having 17 of these things charged to 100% for the last 6 months already done the damage???

Thanks again for all the wonderful answers!!!!
 
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cheaperrooter

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Read link. These are considered Lithium Ions??? Now I am REALLY confused. As a contractor, I am a Dewalt 18 volt battery fan. Have tons of the new 18 volt Lithium Ions. Dewalt says there is NOTHING WRONG with storing these bad babies for months at a time. Nothing at all? Fact, that is there main selling advantage. As a prepper, I wasn't wild about the fact that the nicads lose power after a full charge within a few days (30%) and the others do not, more like (1-11/2% per month). So I could store store the Lithium Ions for months, fact a year at a time without having to charge them and they would be in "ready" mode.

So, why the difference? Are the Dewalts a diff technology? Does the "nano" (whatever that means) have an effect on them?
 

RetroTechie

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Relax! Not mentioned yet: THE worst thing that cuts into a Li-ion's longevity, is storage at too high temperature (like in the back of a running laptop!). So: keep them in a place that's between freezing up till room temperature. Avoid hot places like a car in the sun etc.

Storing at low charge levels (but above ~3.0V) is optimal long-term, but having them charged up higher isn't that bad... If I know I won't be using a Li-ion for months+, I'll make sure it's charged ~50% (~3.7V). If I know it'll sit on the shelf for a while, but I might want to use it at any time, I'll charge it up to ~3.9-4.0V (like SilverFox). That way the bulk of the charged capacity (~70-80% or so) is on standby, but 'voltage stress' is still moderate so it won't eat into the battery's calender life too much. If I know I'll be using it today or next day, bringing it up to full charge (~4.2V) is done quickly.

Tbh, a Li-ion won't sweat it if kept at 100% charge. So if all of the above sounds too complicated: just charge 'em up fully, don't worry & enjoy!

For the prepper types among us: :wave: Some Li-ions will be in lights, ready for use. Nothing wrong with having those 100% charged. For cells on standby, perhaps a good strategy would be to keep roughly half at ~50% charge, and the other half charged a bit higher (like up to ~4.0V). When some calamity happens with 0 time to prepare, that's still plenty of stored energy to light things up with. When there's more time to prepare (like, news reports of a hurricane coming in) : put your charger(s) to work to fill in those last bits... :)
 

cheaperrooter

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:popcorn: Veeeeeery interesting. Very intersting indeed. <---- What TV show was that from??? OK, I am more relaxed now, seeing as how they are all stored in my house, climate controled. So from what I gather from your input, is do not overwork this. If 100% makes me happy go for it. The loss from it will not be sunstantial enough to justify being overly concerned about it?

And if I care, the OPTIMUM way to do it is to charge to 50% more or less. But optimum does not translate into meaning that 100% is really bad, just not the best? Did I get all that right?
 

reppans

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Search after search and I give up!!! Simple question about charging an ARB L-...

This was from a Military study on different charging habits for 18650s and dovetails well with the BatteryUniversity article Arch posted above.

Charging to 100%, maintaining high average voltages, and deep discharge cycles all contribute to Li-ion wear and permanent capacity loss. I don't care about flashlights batts as they are cheap and easily replaced, but I do manage my iProducts, with non replaceable batteries, but using light timers - costs me seconds every night when I plug in at night.

7511624906_b2829f9c0d_z.jpg


The prepper in me has all my electronic travel/camping/emergency gadgets based around AAs, Eneloops and solar chargers, and I can scavenge 9Vs, AAAs, AAs and anything between a CR123 and 18650 for use in my EDC pocket light with a piece of MacGyver tinfoil... Push come to shove, I could live quite easily on just it's "bright" moonlight mode.

Guess I'll have take TEEJ's advice one day and see if a trit will suffice ;).
 
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SilverFox

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Re: Search after search and I give up!!! Simple question about charging an ARB L-...

Hello Cheaperrooter,

Settle down and let's go over this step by step...

You've got 17 batteries. How may lights are you using these batteries in. If it is only 1, then pick 2 batteries and store the other 15 fully charged in the freezer. If an "incident" occurs, pull the batteries out of the freezer and by the time you go through the first 2 they should be ready to go.

Stored at full charge at freezing a typical Li-Ion battery will only loose around 6% of their total capacity after 3 months.

That takes care of that, now let's move on to your DeWalt battery packs. The first question is what is the charger charging the packs to? If it is only charging to something like 4.0 - 4.1 volts per cell, you can store them fully charged and only see minor degradation over a period of years. By the time you see the degradation cut into your needed use a new model will be available and you may have changed to that. Industrial applications can tweak the charging to extend life. If you have no comparison to a pack charged to 4.2 volts per cell, you won't miss the slight reduction by only charging it to 4.1 or 4.0 volts. This is a welcome trade off for longevity and the ability to grab a tool and use it right off the shelf because battery self discharge is not an issue.

Now, let's put all of this into perspective. You come to a flashlight forum were we obsess over lights and batteries and are surprised when we give you the nitty gritty details of how to get the "most" from your batteries. "Anyone" can simply charge up the batteries and let them sit until they are needed. "The truly obsessed" delve deep into the process and spend hours, if not days, working on getting optimal performance from the batteries.

Imagine the satisfaction from knowing that "anyone" only got 300 charge discharge cycles and after spending days of effort you were able to squeak out 350 cycles.

That's the stuff that batteryoholics are made of...

Tom
 

reppans

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Search after search and I give up!!! Simple question about charging an ARB L-...

Stored at full charge at freezing a typical Li-Ion battery will only loose around 6% of their total capacity after 3 months.

I believe that's 6% permanent capacity loss after 1 yr. (6% / 3 mo = 24% per year). I think the 3 mo. thing only applies to the last item.
 

SilverFox

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Re: Search after search and I give up!!! Simple question about charging an ARB L-...

Hello Reppans,

I believe you are correct. Thanks.

Tom
 

cheaperrooter

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Re: Search after search and I give up!!! Simple question about charging an ARB L-...

First I stocked a couple hundred 123a's. But after doing the math, I realized, assuming usage of 12 hours a day, they would fade fast when you have 12 Fenix flashlights. 3 HL30 headlamps, 2 E50, 3 PD32, 3 PD35 and 1 TK75. In essence, the headlamps I have will get used the most if SHTF, they are a pretty amazing light for the money and they run on AA anyway.

But I only use one light, my PD35, on a regular basis and it has a holster that carries 2 extra. So those get used some what regularly, but not often enough after reading all this info. But still, I finally made the switch to the rechargables, mainly because I can charge them in my truck and for other obvious reasons, a much better choice for SHTF.

So all I am personally concerned with is one thing and one thing only. Come a couple years from now when I may need them for a SHTF possibility, are they going to be "ready". Ready means usable. Usable means chargable. Yes, I prefer ready means ready and charged, but, I am ok with what I have learned.

Which is, yes they will be, regardless of how I choose to charge them. But when it's all said and done, this is what I am going to do.

I am draining all of them, less the 3 for work, to about 70% capacity and that's that!!!!! Something happens, I top them off and take off. Seeing as I have 4 ARE-C1 and 1 ARE-C2 Fenix chargers, I can quickly charge 12 at a time, all from my truck if need be, with 3 by 1 cig lighter adapters I bought for that very reason.

So, I have learned alot and all of the info you all supplied was great and accurate, save maybe Silverfox's INCORRECT assumption that I was "surprised". Correctly, I am surprised by the new info I had learned, not, as he said, that i was learning it :)

But, I may just put them all in the freezer too!!!!
 
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