SF 6P OR 9P

[Lux et veritas]

If I use a Malkoff drop in, in a Surfire 6P or 9P can i use recharable batts in either of the two. If i can can anyone recc. what recharge bat is best for this. I want to use the Malkoff M60 but if re-charge batt is not an option I would go with the M60LF due to run time. If i go with the 9p with the extra batt will i gain anything as far as run time or anything else?

Thanks

 

[Sgt. LED]

Go for the 9P. It is not much longer honestly.

You can use 3 primaries or 2X17500's. Either battery option will give you the same output for a longer time.

Oh and my favorite Malkoff is the M60L, best balance of output and runtime you can get from a module. IMO anyway.

 

[ElGreco]

If your not going to use rechargables i'd say get the 9P. But since you are, 2xR123a cells or a single 17670 will run any Malkoff in a 6P. I find the size a tad more convient.

 

[Kestrel]

I've EDC'd both a SureFire L1 (Luxeon version, similar in length to the 6P) as well as the longer C3, my thoughts are:

For EDC purposes, go with the 6P (or perhaps an upscale C2 for the very useful pocket clip)
If you already have a smaller EDC, go with the longer flashlight for overall utility purposes.

Oh, and the extra length will only get you longer runtime, not higher brightness, even if you up the voltage with more cells (within reason - it's a long story there).

My 1.5 cents.

 

[Kestrel]

I had written the following for a techie friend previously, I hope at least of some of the following info is useful:
(BTW, the runtime numbers are from other posters plus some estimates, folks like Sgt.LED have much more hands-on experience with this).


... there are a number of serious issues with running rechargeables in stock sealed-type SureFires (long story there, the main issue being that 3v 123's run at 2.5v under high-drain conditions, while 3.7v LiIon rechargeables start at 4.2v and run at a 3.7v under high-drain conditions). Enter the 1-5.5v Malkoff M30 and 3.8-9v M60 drop-in LED modules:

1. Two-cell SureFire C2 with a 250 lumen M30 (3v) Malkoff running a single LiIon rechargeable 17670 for ~1.5 hours of runtime (and the single cell eliminates voltage-balancing issues inherent with two cells). There is no backup off-the-shelf compatible power, only extra 17670 rechargeables you can keep in reserve. However, the advantage to this setup is that this is the highest performance (lumens & runtime) you can get from the smallest of these packages.
2. C2 with a 250 lumen M60 (6v) Malkoff that can use two rechargeable 123's and off-the-shelf 123's lithiums for backup. ~1 hr of runtime with rechargeable 123's and 1.5 hours of runtime with off-the-shelf lithium 123's for backup.
3. Three-cell C3 with an M30 with great flexibility in battery configurations: two AA alkalines: 150 lumens for 1 hr, AA NiMH rechargeables: 150 lumens for 1.5 hrs, AA Lithiums off-the-shelf: ~200 lumens for ~2 hrs. The 3-cell 'open' SureFires (9P/G3/C3,etc.) are the only ones that can be adapted to AA use. You can even run 3 rechargeable NiMH 123's to get back to 250 lumens for ~50 minutes, but this would be inconvenient as those batteries are pretty fringe, two Eneloop AA's would be a better overall choice.
4. C3 with a 250 lumen M60 using either two 17500 rechargeables or 3 off-the-shelf 123's as backup, both providing ~2 hours of runtime.

I've done the third option, it still carries O.K. in the pocket even though it's a bit longer, doesn't have quite the performance of the C2 options, but AA Alkaline ability is _really_ nice, and the AA NiMH rechargeable market is much more consumer-friendly & easier to navigate than the LiIon rechargeable market. There are however some really helpful websites that can provide you with good info on the LiIon rechargeables and a great battery & charger selection, other posters have much more experience with this.

One other argument against using the high-performance LiIon rechargeables is that they give no warning - one moment you're happily running 250 lumens, the next moment, complete dark, that's why a person would still want an L1 or T1A in the pocket. Option #3, while providing the lowest performance in the largest package, does give a graceful decline with all battery types when they are nearly discharged.

 

[Sgt. LED]

You really should provide a link to your above post in your sig line!
Educate the masses!

I read your post and realized I have all 4 of those options running plus a Leef 2X18650 tube with an M60, M60L, or M60LL!

I flip between option 3 and 4 as my favorite but since I have all the parts I guess I'm prepared for any batteries I happen upon.

 

[bullfrog]

Just to throw this in the mix: so you get the best of BOTH "c" worlds, why not just get a C2 and a TNC "detonator" one-cell extender so you can easily turn your C2 into a C3 when need be...?

I wanted a C3 but went this route instead for ultimate flexibility.

 

[etc]

4. C3 with a 250 lumen M60 using either two 17500 rechargeables or 3 off-the-shelf 123's as backup, both providing ~2 hours of runtime.

I've done the third option, it still carries O.K. in the pocket even though it's a bit longer, doesn't have quite the performance of the C2 options, but AA Alkaline ability is _really_ nice, and the AA NiMH rechargeable market is much more consumer-friendly & easier to navigate than the LiIon rechargeable market. There are however some really helpful websites that can provide you with good info on the LiIon rechargeables and a great battery & charger selection, other posters have much more experience with this.

One other argument against using the high-performance LiIon rechargeables is that they give no warning - one moment you're happily running 250 lumens, the next moment, complete dark, that's why a person would still want an L1 or T1A in the pocket. Option #3, while providing the lowest performance in the largest package, does give a graceful decline with all battery types when they are nearly discharged.

That hits the nail on the head. You got to have spare cells with you. I want the bigger capacity 18500s or 18650s better yet but don't want the increased size.

Indeed, AA NiMH rule and all my other stuff is based on the AA size. I plan to get a 1xAA lite perhaps to complement the Surefire 9P.

Get 9P with M60, which is what I did...

 

[Kestrel]

Thanks for the thumbs-up for my modest writeup on what I've come to believe are the best SureFire/Malkoff, rechargeable/primary options. I tried to organize all the info I've read over the past few months on the topic into just a few paragraphs. I figure a person can't go wrong exploring any of the above options. Since I also place a high priority on being able to buy backup primaries, I really wanted to mention where those fit in.

Sgt. LED (also Bullzeyebill & Rat6P) has been carrying the load for so long (esp. with regards to the wonderful M30) and I just wanted to help.

Thx,

 

[merlocka]

If you are deciding between a 6p or a 9p to purchase... you might want to think about an aftermarket (LEEF or FIVEMEGA) body. These would accept 18650 cell or 2x 18500 cells and still allow 2xCR123 or 3xCR123 respectively.

Just a thought.

 

[ampdude]

I like the third option, I run a KL1 head off of 2AA batteries all the time in a UBH (3 cell e-series body).

Where do I get a 2AA battery sleeve for my C/P/G series?

 

[Sgt. LED]

Easiest thing is to "roll your own".
Just put the 2 batteries down on some paper or cardboard or just about aything really and roll the up in it.

You can also carry your Surefire & batteries to Lowes or Home Depo and look for the proper diameter PVC pipe to handle both.

 

[ampdude]

PVC pipe

Forgot about that old trick.. thanks :thumbsup:

 

[Kestrel]

Where do I get a 2AA battery sleeve for my C/P/G series?

Starbucks.

Seriously. Their brown corrugated cardboard cup sleeves make a nice tight fit for AA's, they roll easily, don't crinkle, and don't slide out when you 'knock' the batteries out.

Plus, when your alkalines leak, there is a chance that they might absorb most of the mess so that your C3 might not get trashed.

 

[etc]

If you are deciding between a 6p or a 9p to purchase... you might want to think about an aftermarket (LEEF or FIVEMEGA) body. These would accept 18650 cell or 2x 18500 cells and still allow 2xCR123 or 3xCR123 respectively.

Just a thought.

Your thoughts on the choice between 2x18500 vs. 2x18650?

 

[etc]

... there are a number of serious issues with running rechargeables in stock sealed-type SureFires (long story there, the main issue being that 3v 123's run at 2.5v under high-drain conditions, while 3.7v LiIon rechargeables start at 4.2v and run at a 3.7v under high-drain conditions). Enter the 1-5.5v Malkoff M30 and 3.8-9v M60 drop-in LED modules:

1. Two-cell SureFire C2 with a 250 lumen M30 (3v) Malkoff running a single LiIon rechargeable 17670 for ~1.5 hours of runtime (and the single cell eliminates voltage-balancing issues inherent with two cells). There is no backup off-the-shelf compatible power, only extra 17670 rechargeables you can keep in reserve. However, the advantage to this setup is that this is the highest performance (lumens & runtime) you can get from the smallest of these packages.
   
2. C2 with a 250 lumen M60 (6v) Malkoff that can use two rechargeable 123's and off-the-shelf 123's lithiums for backup. ~1 hr of runtime with rechargeable 123's and 1.5 hours of runtime with off-the-shelf lithium 123's for backup.
   
3. Three-cell C3 with an M30 with great flexibility in battery configurations:
   Two AA alkalines: 150 lumens for 1 hr,
   AA NiMH rechargeables: 150 lumens for 1.5 hrs,
   AA Lithiums off-the-shelf: ~200 lumens for ~2 hrs.
   The 3-cell 'open' SureFires (9P/G3/C3,etc.) are the only ones that can be adapted to AA use. You can even run 3 rechargeable NiMH 123's to get back to 250 lumens for ~50 minutes, but this would be inconvenient as those batteries are pretty fringe, two Eneloop AA's would be a better overall choice.
   
4. C3 with a 250 lumen M60 using either two 17500 rechargeables or 3 off-the-shelf 123's as backup, both providing ~2 hours of runtime.

I've done the third option, it still carries O.K. in the pocket even though it's a bit longer, doesn't have quite the performance of the C2 options, but AA Alkaline ability is _really_ nice, and the AA NiMH rechargeable market is much more consumer-friendly & easier to navigate than the LiIon rechargeable market. There are however some really helpful websites that can provide you with good info on the LiIon rechargeables and a great battery & charger selection, other posters have much more experience with this.

One other argument against using the high-performance LiIon rechargeables is that they give no warning - one moment you're happily running 250 lumens, the next moment, complete dark, that's why a person would still want an L1 or T1A in the pocket. Option #3, while providing the lowest performance in the largest package, does give a graceful decline with all battery types when they are nearly discharged.

This is a great report.

I've thought long and hard about M30/2xAA thing but decided to go with M60 and 2x17500. The reason is, I get substantially greater lumens versus 2xAA NiMH and the ability to use primaries 123s if I have to -- More flexibility. Surefire is just too big for AA, body-wise. It doesn't make sense to stuff small AA cells if the lite can take greater cells like 17500s.

Running primaries (123s) in it all the time is great lumens and runtime wise but not viable financially. I would probably spend $1,000 per year if I did that. Compare that with the initial investment of the 9P lite and the M60 module.

I've also thought about the 2x18500 body, you can still use 123s if you must, but wrap them in something. They rattle a bit even in the stock body in fact. The 2x18650 body is most promising performance and run time wise, but you lose the ability to use primaries, unless you use a spacer, which I don't want to. And you lose the ability to EDC as 2x18650 body is anything but compact. The stock 9P is right at the edge of what I can EDC.

 

[Kestrel]

This is a great report.

Thank you, I have only organized information that others have posted who are more knowledgeable on all of these very fun combinations.

I've thought long and hard about M30/2xAA thing but decided to go with M60 and 2x17500.

I know, I've read your numerous postings on this exact topic.

It doesn't make sense to stuff small AA cells if the lite can take greater cells like 17500s.

To each his own. What I like about Sgt. LED's posts are that he provides options & information for the OP, and doesn't assume his all-time favorite choice will be the best for everyone.

Running primaries (123s) in it all the time is great lumens and runtime wise but not viable financially.

Which is why the OP specifically asked about rechargeable options in the 6P/9P. I only mentioned primaries as backup options.

The 2x18650 body is most promising performance and run time wise, but you lose the ability to use primaries, unless you use a spacer, which I don't want to. And you lose the ability to EDC as 2x18650 body is anything but compact.

The OP was asking about stock 6P/9P lengths rather than extended body options.

The stock 9P is right at the edge of what I can EDC.

+1.

 

[etc]

You know, sometimes the customer is *not* right. That means a lot of times ppl ask questions, wanting something but in fact there is a better solution available. You have to think in terms of what their goal is. If the overriding concern is the ability to run on AA --- and I do think it's a great goal, that that limits the choice to certain hardware.

Myself, I decided to go with two lites. Surefire 9P with M60 module and 2x17500 (123s as backup) and also find a small 1AA or 1AAA lite. This way you have two modes.

It would be great if my 9P had a low mode.

However, additional functions would probably make it less reliable. It's a fairly idiot proof lite as I have it now, with the Light-Emitting-Diode by Malkoff. On or Off.

Also, there are circumstances where you wouldn't want to whip out a "tactical" lite, it's like trying to hit a gnat with a 460. Just imaging getting some packages at work you need to open and whip out a Rambo knife and freak out your coworkers.

The Surefire lites that *do* have multimodes do not accept the Malkoff M60 module. Unless I am mistaken here, I cannot keep track of them all.

 

[mdocod]

I understand the concept behind taking a pair of AAs and shimming them into a 9P and running an M30, I just can't figure out how I would justify such an arrangement given the following considerations.

1. There are dedicated single mode 2xAA powered cree LED flashlights available of good quality.
2. A dedicated 2xAA body light is more compact than a 9P.
3. Almost every 2AA light available on the market is cheaper than buying both a 9P and an M30 (in fact, you could buy 4 good-quality single mode 2AA lights for the cost of this 9P setup.)
4. 2AA cells have far less watt-hour capacity compared with 2 17500s that will fit in there. 2x17500s: over 8 watt hours. 2xAA NIMH: under 5 watt-hours for LSD.

A 9P is an awesome platform, with a lot of potential. I don't see the 2AA configuration as an option that exercises this hosts potential to it's fullest.

I FULLY understand the desire to steer clear of the more complicated and expensive lithium configurations. I just think that in doing so, one will find a better solution in a dedicated AA or C size flashlight.

Eric

 

[etc]

You know, that really hits the nail on the head.