SF 8AX Commander rechargable - LED upgrade???

yellow

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No, the interior of the 8NX looks nothing like this.
my bad :rolleyes:
I thought there is a follower to my very old "8X" model, called something like "8XN" or so.
Sure the "8NX" interior is other, You showed a pic in post #5
(btw.: good pics, all of them)


Form the posts, I get the feeling we both mean the same thing, with only one difference:
I would never ever accept any LA inside the light that can move, be it supressed by the battery, or not
(even if the spring presses the smaller diameter led insert against the glass, a good hit and it will move. Even more bad when there is force from the spring, a nice cut to the glass is sure then, imho)

Therefore the only difference between our sayings is:
for me it is a must to insert something between reflector and bezel that pushes the insert down into the head, to fight it being loose (and to fight it pushing against the glass)



something like this here (another light):

the original reflector (right) has wider diameter.
The smaller one on the left would be loose inside the head, as the bezel ring only pushes at the very outside (of the wide original reflector)
and the glass is a few mms away, it would not fix the new one
therefore --> inserting a (crude) "ring" that touches the smaller new reflector and extends out to the diameter needed
b4j6njhz5y6jdp9xm.jpg


inside the light, showing that the transparent ring gets out to the body
b4j6ojpvndbcpw4ga.jpg


with the bezel ring screwed on, no move of new reflector possible:
b4j6p6vrejxlmh0ne.jpg



something like this has to be added to the led-insert inside the 8X/8NX head.
Has to extend to the "seat"part of the original Light Assembly and, with bezel secured, makes movement of the insert impossible
 

Justin Case

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All theoretically possible risks with a reflector that sits directly on the inside of the glass window. Whether or not they are actually realistic is another matter.

A modified 6P LED drop-in is not "loose" in an 8NX in the sense of being completely unconstrained. Presumably, you've carefully filed down the centering ribs just enough to pass the drop-in through. If you do it right, the fit will be tight and the ribs will grip the drop-in's reflector body. Between the ribs and the outer spring, the drop-in will be held pretty well.

Granted, this is not as secure as in the X80 incandescent lamp case, where an overhanging lip is "pinched" in-between the ledge at the bezel window and the top of the collar. That makes the X80, bezel, and collar a single unit.

For the modified drop-in to move backwards and then spring forward again and hit the inside of the glass window, possibly breaking the window, you'd probably have to use a Kubotan thrust strike using the tailcap or accidentally drop the flashlight onto its tailcap. Momentum would cause the mod'ed drop-in to try to continue to move rearward, while the flashlight stops suddenly when it hits the target or ground. But a typical 6P drop-in is also very light weight, so it seems unlikely that it will have enough momentum to overcome the friction from the centering ribs and also compress the outer spring enough for the drop-in to lose contact with the window. The battery is far heavier, but it can't move rearward because it is blocked by a plastic ring at the bottom of the 8NX body, on which it sits.

Even if a gap did occur between the drop-in and the bezel window from a tailcap strike or dropping the light on the tailcap, how much force will be applied to the drop-in pushing it forward again? Just the outer spring, which doesn't seem to have a lot of "oomph" to accelerate the drop-in.

If you dropped the light onto its bezel, I don't see a problem in terms of the drop-in breaking the window. It's like shooting a shotgun. If you hold the buttstock in tight, recoil gives you a push with no bruising. If there is a gap, then the buttstock gives you a punch. Well, the drop-in will be in contact with the window, so all it will do is push on the glass.

If the window had a pre-existing flaw (a scratch), then you should take care of that regardless. But the drop-in reflector rim itself isn't going to do any scratching. It is soft aluminum, much softer than glass.

I suppose that repeated bezel or tailcap thrust strikes could repeatedly shift the drop-in and battery back and forth. For example, a bezel thrust could compress everything forward, and then the battery will move rearward again when you draw back your arm for the follow-up strike and because the outer spring pushes the battery back. The battery could move rearward faster than the spring and-or drop-in, resulting in a gap. Now we are essentially back to the tailcap thrust strike scenario from before. The cocking of the arm for the follow-up bezel thrust would have to move the drop-in rearward, resulting in loss of contact with the bezel window. Then the forward movement for the follow-up strike could slam the battery forward into the drop-in and the drop-in hits the bezel window.

All theoretically possible I suppose.

Of course, the filament on the X80 could have also broken in all of this abuse.

If this is still a concern, I would replace the glass window on the 8NX (the bezel has a threaded retaining ring) and drop in a Lexan window. Problem solved, though I'm not sure where to find a Lexan window for the 8NX. But that's a different problem.
If there is not gap to begin with, then forward-directed force against the bezel window is highly unlikely to do anything. This is the same theory when shooting shotguns and other heavy-recoiling guns. If you hold the buttstock in tight to the shoulder pocket, the recoil simply pushes you. If you are afraid of the gun and don't keep it in tight but instead leave a gap, then you get punched by the recoil.

Note also that SureFire clone bezels from Solarforce and G&P all are designed to have the reflector rim sit directly on the inside surface of the glass window. Those clone bezels do not use the same "ledge" design of the SureFire bezels. In the SF "ledge" design, the ledge is a protruding shelf. Thus, there is a ledge surface from both the outside and the inside of the bezel. The window sits on an O-ring which sits on the topside of the ledge and all of that is secured by a threaded retaining ring. A SureFire lamp or drop-in rim presses against the underside of the same ledge.

In the Solarforce/G&P bezel design, the inside diameter of the bezel is the same as the reflector rim diameter of a lamp or drop-in. The top opening of the bezel is wider, which forms the ledge. You drop the window directly onto the ledge, then an O-ring, and then the retaining ring.

I've not seen any complaints on CPF over this design in terms of causing broken windows due to lamp or drop-in impact to the glass.

Photos to follow later, showing these two bezel designs in pictures.
 
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yellow

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typed something in response but skipped it.
Makes no sense
imho everything is clear, no need to comment on unnecessary details
 

Justin Case

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Here is a shot of the bezel "ledge" for a G2 bezel that has a removable retaining ring. The 8NX bezel is similar. I didn't want to disassemble it, so I'm showing a G2 instead.
SureFireG2bezelledgetop.jpg


This is an angled view of the same ledge. You can see that the ledge is a relatively thin piece of plastic (Nitrolon) that sticks out from the wall of the bezel.
SureFireG2bezelledgeangledview.jpg


Then a flat O-ring sits on the ledge, followed by the Pyrex window on the O-ring.
SureFireG2bezelwithO-ringandUCLwind.jpg


The threaded retaining ring holds everything together.
SureFireG2bezelcomplete.jpg


Now here is a shot of a G&P bezel ledge. The inside diameter of the bezel above the ledge is wider than the ID below the ledge. Thus, the G&P ledge is different from the ledge in the SureFire bezel. It's actually a step, rather than a projection out of the sidewall. The inside diameter of the bezel below the ledge/step is actually approximately the same as the top rim diameter for a P60 lamp or drop-in. Thus, the rim of the P60 or drop-in will press directly against the glass window from below.
GPbezelledge.jpg


The window sits on the ledge/step and an O-ring goes on top of the window.
GPbezelwithwindowandO-ring.jpg


Everything is held in by a threaded metal retaining ring. This ring has only one pair of notches to tighten/loosen the ring. The SureFire retaining ring is plastic and has six notches.
GPbezelcomplete.jpg
 

Justin Case

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the original reflector (right) has wider diameter.
The smaller one on the left would be loose inside the head, as the bezel ring only pushes at the very outside (of the wide original reflector)
and the glass is a few mms away, it would not fix the new one
therefore --> inserting a (crude) "ring" that touches the smaller new reflector and extends out to the diameter needed
b4j6njhz5y6jdp9xm.jpg

If direct contact of the reflector on the window is a concern, this looks like it could solve the problem. I would think that the plastic ring has to be a minimum thickness to provide the necessary mechanical support. Plus, the adhesive attachment also can't let go under stress.

What kind of plastic are you using? How do you glue it on? Epoxy? What thickness of plastic do you use? How did you cut such a clean ring?

I would have to measure, but my guess is that the ring has to be only about 4mm wide to allow the drop-in the rest on the bezel ledge and then get clamped between the ledge and the collar when the bezel and collar are screwed together.
 

nein166

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If you follow the link in my sig line you can check out how I made a X80-LED Module
 

Justin Case

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I measured the X80 outer spring dimensions:

OD: 0.665"
ID: 0.553"
Height: 0.720"
Wire thickness: 0.055"
Turns: 6

I found this spring manufacturer using Google. I did a search for their compression springs, looking for springs with OD in the range 0.66"-0.67", ID in the range 0.55"-0.56", and height in the range 0.7"-0.75".

Their search engine came back with two springs: Stock #71878 and Stock #71878S. Both have the following dimensions:

OD: 0.660"
ID: 0.550"
Height: 0.750"
Wire diameter: 0.055"
Turns: 4

Both also have closed and ground flat ends, which is perfect (same as the X80 spring). The first spring is made from music wire. The second from stainless steel.

Spring #71878S looks like the one.

Here is another spring vendor from Google. I downloaded their Excel spreadsheet for all of their stock compression springs and found this one:

Part No. C22-055-024
OD: 0.660"
Wire Diameter: 0.055"
Free Length: 0.750"
Total Coils: 4.1
Ends: Ground

I may try to order some springs from one of these vendors and solder a spring to a 6P LED drop-in to test in my 8NX.
 

Justin Case

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I heard back from springfast.com (WB Jones Spring Co) and they said that Part No. C22-055-024 comes in a pack of 6 springs for $19.14 ($3.19 per spring). The minimum order is $25. They don't sell partial packs, so ordering from this outfit will require buying two packs (12 springs) for $38.28. That's the cost of one X80 lamp, though I would have more than enough X80 outer springs and I wouldn't sacrifice a perfectly working lamp. Hopefully, their shipping cost is reasonable.
 
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lumafist

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Well, that was way easy.........!!

Took the outer spring from a sad, sad X80 and cut that to right length..
Then cut middle spring on P60 dropin, soldered the X80 spring on to dropin.
Cut the posts on the inside of my obsolete 8NX dropped dropin right in there.....:twothumbs

Never ever done such an easy mod.......;)
 

nein166

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Well, that was way easy.........!!

Took the outer spring from a sad, sad X80 and cut that to right length..
Then cut middle spring on P60 dropin, soldered the X80 spring on to dropin.
Cut the posts on the inside of my obsolete 8NX dropped dropin right in there.....:twothumbs

Never ever done such an easy mod.......;)

Pack some layers of Aluminum Foil around the drop-in. It'll have a larger heatsinking mass. The Nitrolon isn't a good heat conductor but it will get hot after a while. packing in foil just give you more surface area contacting the head.
 

lumafist

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That`s a good tip!

But...


I was actualy thinking of AA-epoxy some AL onto the dropin itself for heatissues...

Whatya think?
 

Bushman5

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I appreciate all the info, most is over my head :thinking: but thanks.

next question: whats the battery voltage of the 8AX battery...i'm contemplating making a special battery tray (like the Pelican Saberlight teay with the neg strip coming back uip to the top) so i can use RCR123's (and a dummy cell or two)
 

lumafist

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I appreciate all the info, most is over my head :thinking: but thanks.

next question: whats the battery voltage of the 8AX battery...



What info do you need...?
It`s VERY easy doing this mod IMO..


Don`t know what voltage it has actually..
The dropin I used for this takes 3.6-9V. so......:whistle:
 

nein166

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next question: whats the battery voltage of the 8AX battery...(and a dummy cell or two)

STOCK, 3.6v for a B90
The stick is 3 Sub-C cell NiCd at 1.2v each under load
Hot off the charge you could see 4.3v

If you create a carrier us a 18650
I always dreamed of a 2 parrallel 18650 carrier for the 8AX
 

Bushman5

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bumping up my own thread, WITH PICS!!!!! :devil:

took the LED drop in from my G2Z-L tan nitrolon and simply dropped it in, with a Oring between the reflector and the glass lens of the 8AX Commander.

82e0d410.jpg


STOCK 8AX reflector:
66618a7f.jpg


G2Z-L led drop-in:
3ed92b82.jpg


up against the glass:
29e0cf66.jpg



SUCCESS! now i have a nice metal bodied Momentary "switched" led light, no more primaries wasted.

:D
 

Chris

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Here are some photos of the 8NX.

This one shows the light separated into its components. L-R: body tube, collar, bezel (a red filter is fitted over the bezel). The X80 lamp assembly is not shown here.
SureFire8NXdisassembled.jpg


Here is the X80 sitting in the collar.
SureFire8NXcollarwithX80lampinserte.jpg


Here is the X80 from the other end of the collar, showing the outer spring.
SureFire8NXbezelandcollarbottomview.jpg


Here is a shot of the top of the B90 battery stick in the 8NX body tube. The center nipple is +. The shiny ring just inside of the blue wrapper is -.
SureFire8NXbodytubetopviewshowingB9.jpg


This is a top view of the collar showing the centering ribs.
SureFire8NXcollarcenteringribstopvi.jpg


Here is an angled view of the ribs.
SureFire8NXcollarcenteringribstopan.jpg


Finally, a comparison of the X80 lamp to a Deal Extreme 11836 Cree R2 drop-in for a 6P. As I described in my earlier post, the diameter of the DX11836 at the cylindrical section (basically, where the "R2" foil label is) is about 1/10" wider vs the diameter of the X80 at the SureFire foil label. This is where the centering ribs contact the X80. Thus, if you carefully remove some of the material from the ribs (it's all plastic, so removing material is easy), you can fit a standard 6P drop-in. Then the remaining challenge is to replace the outer spring of the DX11836 with a spring that matches the diameter of the X80's outer spring and adjust it for length. From this photo, it looks like you might have to clip off about 2 turns if you use a cannibalized outer spring from a dead X80. Fortunately, this outer spring seems to match the diameter of the 17mm driver board used in the DX11836 pill, and all you have to do is solder the spring to the board's ground trace. You can already see some globs of solder where the board's ground trace is soldered to the brass pill. This outer spring has to contact the negative terminal of the B90 battery stick, which is shown above. The small center spring has to make contact with the center nipple of the B90. This photo also shows that the 6P drop-in reflector is slightly smaller in diameter at the rim vs. the X80. Thus, the rim of the drop-in will sit on the inside face of the bezel's window. But I don't see that as a major issue.
SureFireX80lampandDX11836drop-in.jpg
 

Chris

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STOCK, 3.6v for a B90
The stick is 3 Sub-C cell NiCd at 1.2v each under load
Hot off the charge you could see 4.3v

If you create a carrier us a 18650
I always dreamed of a 2 parrallel 18650 carrier for the 8AX
 

Chris

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I'm reporting this late but let's keep it simple and revolutionary elementary school you can no longer fine the X 80 lamp for the sure fire flashlight so order the P6 LED bulb file down the four support points inside the flashlight that holds the X 80 so the P6 fits in remove the spring from the P6 take the spring off the X 80 in large the bottom to sit on the brass base of the P6 put it all together, and it works fine in the photo you will see the X8 to the right the P6 to the left the P6 spring in the middle and the X 80 spring on the P6 bulb if you do this, the way I described you now have a sure fire with an LED lamp that works exactly like the incandescent one did
 

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Dave D

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I assume that you are already aware, but just in case you are not, Lumens Factory now produce LED Modules that are suitable for the Surefire 8X, 8NX and the 8AX they are available with single LED in either 1 mode or 3 mode variants or Quad LED again in 1 mode or 3 mode variants. They also produce a battery carrier that adapts a 18650 to the B90 stick battery size.

Lumens Factory SF 8X/8NX/8AX Compatible Parts
 
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