SF Concern (formerly "Crisis")

AlphalphaPB

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Probably Chinese, since I couldn't find any official Japanese Surefire site. I've noticed some good information on the Chinese site (it's based in Hong Kong and seems to be quite tied to their local distributor, Supreme Co.).

Rough translation of what they're saying in the LED part (it's been up there for weeks!):

-----------
KL1:
Fits on E1/E2 body
17 lumens
10+ hr runtime on E1
15+ hr runtime on E2

KL2:
19 super-white LED's
Fits on M3
27 lumens
15+ hr runtime

KL3:
Fits on 6P, M2, Z2, D2, Z3, D3
super-white LED
19 lumens
10+ hr runtime (on 2 batteries)
15+ hr runtime (on 3 batteries)
-----------

Hope this helps someone out, it's interesting that this is the only place I've seen lumen ratings for the KLx series.

Also, I wouldn't really call the lack of direct retail sales at Surefire a crisis... they're probably making most of their money with large agency orders.
 
D

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
Hello,

I called today to place an order for a G2Z and Black 6P bezel with Pyrex lens. Well, As I placed the order, I asked if the KL series was shipping yet and the guy said he had a meeting this morning and saw it first hand. The KL Series KL1,KL2,KL3 all shipped out last week to dealers and they were available for order direct from SF.

Well I placed my order for the KL series and asked how well the G2Z was selling. He said that the G2Z sold well the first week, a few hundred and now sales are dead. Only 3 people so far have called SF for the KL series today........ 3 !!!!!! OK, so maybe everyone is trying to save $5-10 by ordering from dealers (although shipping will make the savings less). Please tell me there are more than just a few people ordering new SF lights. Future projects are in question now because of lack of civilian consumer sales.

With the break up of SFI, pk-engineering site going down and now only 3 orders (direct from SF) for the KL series...... it's making me nervous.

How many of you actually have or have paid for the G2Z and KL series? Just curious because there seems to be alot of demand and when the time comes, no one buys them!
 

Owen

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AL
I ordered a KL1 for my E2E today. Wasn't in stock, but should be here early next week. Really didn't think about getting it directly, just called the same dealer I always use (www.1sks.com).
 

Sean

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I hope the A2 makes it!
frown.gif
 

Dizney

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I think you're right.....it's likely that quite a few people ordered their KLs from places other than SureFire. I preordered 8 KL series LEDs about 3 weeks ago from an out of state dealer.
 

McGizmo

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Maui
Crisis?

I ordered some KL1's direct from SureFire back in June. I also put some on order with LPS maybe a month ago. Are you saying that as of today, only a total of 3 people have ordered the KL series, total? Or were there only three orders today? Aside from CPF and the SFDB, the real market for these lights doesn't even know of the availability or even existance yet, IMHO. How many on line dealers have featured the product? Is the KLx series on the SureFire web site for sale yet? How many government bids and contracts are firmly placed on yet to exist product?

I asked a couple weeks ago about the KL status and was told by a SF employee to check the website for availability. Well if that story was given out to many, I'm not surprised that SF isn't getting many orders direct! I reckon we'll be messing with 25 Watt Luxeons by the time SF gets their KLx series up on their web site. As of today, the 10X is available soon according to the web site. Yeah, up to date and on the pulse.................

MR. Ted Bear had dinner with PK on Friday and was told the KL's will ship tomorrow (tuesday) and you were told that they shipped last week? I have beeen told by SF folks that they ship on an as ordered basis; first to order-first to ship. I was also told that the order I placed in June was the first one on the books. I am anticipating getting a couple of KL1's as soon as the pipeline is opened. I certainly will let it be known when the eagle has landed. :)

I do think it's premature calling a crisis alert.

- Don
 
D

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
"...the real market for these lights doesn't even know of the availability or even existance yet..."
Yup! Just ask any 10 of your friends and/or family that has about as much enthusiasm for flashlights as they do foooorrrr...say a table leg what a LED is. Don't give any clues that it is flashlight related. Ask it casually and they'll "blow you off" like a piece of drandruff on a overcoat. Press the issue and you'll likely get a "Ahhmmm.....OOOOOKaaaayye, ahem..."

What is needed is marketing by inundation. Place these product EVERYWHERE in any place any kind of anything is sold; especially in the 'impulse' rack next to the checkout register.

Try telling your elderly Aunt that she needs a $100 ARC LS. (No offense PG. BTW, my Aunt wants one!)
grin.gif
 
D

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
I meant 3 orders today. And he said only "a few hundred" G2Zs have been sold to date. It sounded like they have stockpiles of them because they expected more to sell.

The customer sales person who helped me today said the KL series shipped last week and my order will be shipped today (Monday) since I ordered early.

Obviously SF has their niche in the Emergency Services/Military community. Their marketing needs to improve with the civilian population. Make them more readily available at Sporting Goods stores, Hunting Stores, Uniform shops etc.

Well, I ordered from SF today so I should have my order tomorrow or the next day (I'm about 30 minutes from Fountain Valley). THAT brings up another question: Why doesn't SF have a "will call" system so I can call and order, drive there and pick it up? Seems obvious to me that they are not focused on civilian consumer sales.

I shall change the heading to "concern" instead of "crisis"
wink.gif
I'm still a diehard SF fan by the way. I just get frustrated with them sometimes.
smile.gif
 
D

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
"Seems obvious to me that they are not focused on civilian consumer sales."
Yup again! I don't expect them to do so if they remain a LLC. If they incorporate, that will change.

Here's hoping that they don't go the way of stagnation. Aggressive R & D is one of the first to go when a company goes public and the board decides to fatten the bottom line to please the stockholders.

Speaking of market share and exposure, I think that a "no-nonsense, no frills" product such as the original 6P sold in HUGE numbers at very reasonable pricing should bring the civilian market around for them.

Butttt, what the heck do I know about making and then marketing anything...
tongue.gif
:winkie:
 
D

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
I don't understand why the KL series isn't on the website. No previews, nothing. I wouldn't have a clue that they existed if not for CPF. Strangely, they are advertised on the Japanese Surefire site. (I think it was Japanese)
 

carl

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los angeles
I wonder why the Chinese site claims a higher power drain and light output for the KL3 in comparison to the KL1 when the LED Museum and others show similar light and battery life curves between the KL1 and KL3.
 

Alan

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I don't think that SF is pushing the sales of KLx for the moment since they don't even put it on their web sites. If it isn't on their on line store, how could they take orders? They won't expect someone to call SF to check what new product they have for today and place the order right over the phone without even seeing the picture and spec.

How could it be a crisis if it's their original plan not to push the KLx series for the moment due to whatever reason that we are not known?

I think most of SF civilian sales is through their dealers.

Alan
 
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**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
I meant that future products may not be made with such mediocre sales. Say 300 G2Zs have been sold at $10 profit (after payroll, R&D, etc), thats $3000 profit. Is that even enough to cover the machining tools? And thats being optimistic. Most companies make pennies on the dollar after expenses.

I think that if more people could personally see and touch the E2e, G2Z etc they would buy it. But those people unfortunately have never heard of Surefire. Yet everyone has heard of or own Maglites!
confused.gif
 

brightnorm

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Joined
Oct 13, 2001
Messages
7,160
Originally posted by AlphalphaPB:


Fits on E1/E2 body
17 lumens
10+ hr runtime on E1
15+ hr runtime on E2

KL2:
19 super-white LED's
Fits on M3
27 lumens
15+ hr runtime

KL3:
Fits on 6P, M2, Z2, D2, Z3, D3
super-white LED
19 lumens
10+ hr runtime (on 2 batteries)
15+ hr runtime (on 3 batteries)
-----------
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Alpha,

Thanks for posting these runtimes. Unfortunately they completely ignore the real selling point of the KL series: Regulated runtime.

Brightnorm
 

AlphalphaPB

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Hong Kong
I bet the info they posted there was some preliminary info, and as we all know, much tweaking goes on at Surefire even weeks before the release.

The information has been up there since early September, I believe. So it's possible that the information is a little dated. About the regulated runtime, who knows. Maybe the translator didn't know what the hell that was, and decided to leave it out.
smile.gif
 

SureFreak

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Surefire has only put about 1/5 of their products on the site...for instance, their catalog in pdf format is over 9 megs
shocked.gif
most orders they get are over the phone, I guess...

Regards,
Steve
 

Alan

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Hong Kong
Originally posted by AlphalphaPB:

The information has been up there since early September, I believe. So it's possible that the information is a little dated. About the regulated runtime, who knows. Maybe the translator didn't know what the hell that was, and decided to leave it out.
smile.gif
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You might be surprised how much they know about Sure Fire products and Strider stuffs. They didn't put those information for reasons you might not understand.

If you visit their show room, their collection of SF would stun you including many prototypes that have never been put into market.

Alan
 

Alan

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Originally posted by AlphalphaPB:

2. bring no money/cards to the Supreme Co. showroom.
smile.gif
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Or bring along your wife:)

Alan
 

AlphalphaPB

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I am happily single (=knives+lights galore), and since I'm only 20, I don't plan on getting married anytime soon.
smile.gif
 
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