Shoes Thrown at President Bush

[griff]

In the past decade we have leveled the majority of their country and rebuilt
better than before. We got rid of their potential "Hitler" and gave them the chance to have a free society . Look back a Japan South Korea and Germany, these countries were also destroyed rebuilt by the" Land of the Free" and these countries are now free and successful countries with strong economies. We are still in all three countries with our military for many reasons, too many to list but nobel for sure. You MUST step back and let time and historians tell the true story . Because you are so partisan , you can't see the trees thru the forest. I support whoever sits in the White House . Thank the man for keeping us safe at home....after all that is what he has done.

 

[PhotonWrangler]

Who throws a shoe? Honestly?

 

[NA8]

Bush handled it remarkably well. Very surprised it took so long for the SS to react. I guess they are pretty good at threat level assessment and measured response. It'll be interesting to see if this shoe thing catches on. Bush could have a rough time during his last few months in office. Can you imagine hundreds of shoes coming out of a crowd ? Just the media impact alone would be bizarre.

 

[Monocrom]

In the past decade we have leveled the majority of their country and rebuilt
better than before. We got rid of their potential "Hitler" and gave them the chance to have a free society . Look back a Japan South Korea and Germany, these countries were also destroyed rebuilt by the" Land of the Free" and these countries are now free and successful countries with strong economies. We are still in all three countries with our military for many reasons, too many to list but nobel for sure. You MUST step back and let time and historians tell the true story . Because you are so partisan , you can't see the trees thru the forest. I support whoever sits in the White House . Thank the man for keeping us safe at home....after all that is what he has done.

If it is gratitude that one is expecting from the people of Iraq, forget it.

Very few in American politics who have Bush's ear truly understand the Middle East. Iraqi citizens will fight for revenge. They'll fight over being blatantly disrespected. They won't fight for Freedom, or Equality. That type of mentality does not yet exist in the Middle East.

While many were happy that Bush helped to topple Saddam, that joy seems to have vanished. Thankfully, throwing shoes (and not knives) is a blatant sign of disrespect over there.

 

[Ken_McE]

And could have thrown a shoe let alone even been present at a "press conference"

I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand what you're saying here. Should there be a "he" after the second word?

prior to the "invasion" as you put it?

They have a foreign army occupying their country. Doesn't that count as an invasion?

Culhain I somewhat agree with your analysis, but none the less, the man is still the chosen leader of our nation. Therefore, any insult to him is an insult to the American people.

Good point. However, it is said that a rotweiller can choose to overlook what drives a pekinese into a fury. From our perspective he was just one guy, and I'm sure they'll spank him soundly, at least until we pull out. You can also see on the tape that his own associates piled in to stop him, and you can see Malachi reach over to block the second shoe.

I offer a simple hope that our next leader carefully considers the words of George Santayana: "those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it".

I think I remember something about that past that deals with land wars in Asia. I guess we'll see.

Unfortunately, as a veteran,

If it makes any difference, I just mailed out seven soldier packages today. Hopefully it'll catch up with them by New Years.

 

[Beamhead]

I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand what you're saying here. Should there be a "he" after the second word?

It was an extension of what I had quoted from you, you stated he.

They have a foreign army occupying their country. Doesn't that count as an invasion?

They have freedom from a brutal dictator. IIRC the Iraqi people through the form of government they set up and the courts that rose from it tried, sentenced and punished said dictator, we had a former AG of the US defend him.

 

[steve6690]

I'm actually most surprised at how fast Bush's reflexes are - he is quick!

My wife reckons he's been practising on a Nintendo Wii balance board. There's a game where you have to head soccer balls that are kicked at you, but avoid boots flying at your head..:twothumbs

 

[Taboot]

It almost looks like he's gonna slap leather and come back fanning a Peacemaker after the first shoe. After the second one, hes starting to look pissed. He saved himself a lifetime of having to look at a picture of himself wincing as the shoe hit.

Clinton would've gotten smacked right in the pie hole.

 

[RyanA]

If it is gratitude that one is expecting from the people of Iraq, forget it.

Very few in American politics who have Bush's ear truly understand the Middle East. Iraqi citizens will fight for revenge. They'll fight over being blatantly disrespected. They won't fight for Freedom, or Equality. That type of mentality does not yet exist in the Middle East.

I didn't want to get involved in this thread but I have to say I agree with this. People have to be ready for the burdens of freedom. With both the French and American revolutions there existed a sort of philosophical high-water mark which in my opinion is no longer present today. Nor has it had the opportunity to be cultivated in that area of the world. Even with that background in philosophy there was still witnessed a great deal of confusion and bloodshed before order was established. In the US, the Articles of Confederation provided the federal government too little power until an appropriate balance was found and they were replaced by the Constitution. In France there was spate of killings and social anarchy, we were lucky to avoid much of this. Then after the insanity of the revolution France witnessed the rise of Napoleon. :shrug:
I realize that this is a fairly (or unfairly) negative view of people. Unfortunately I do not believe that everyone is ready or willing to dictate the terms of their own lives. Many people still require a source of external morality or direction which is why I think it is unlikely that we will ever see the end of religion. Too many variables, too much thinking required perhaps. Unfortunately thinking has not always been one of the highlights of our time.
This doesn't really apply to my fellow CPF'ers though, you guys are alright. Everyone else though... ******* coated *******s, the entire lot of 'em.

Aside from that, I'm from a middle-eastern background. But I could never understand the shoe throwing thing. Kind of a crappy way to start a fight, with only one shoe and all. More seriously I was told as a child (perhaps incorrectly) that it had to do with dogs and their low status in the culture. Raising the bottom of the shoe I guess is like paralleling someone with a dog.

 

[MattK]

Ryan, I basically agree with you. It's a complicated set of factors but essentially most of the M.E. is still in a 'culture of honor' state and until it progrsses beyond that they will not be ready for democracy. The French and American citizenry (and this is the case in pretty much every modern republic/democracy) by and large SEIZED their freedom and democracy; it was not handed to them at gunpoint. If you get a chance pick up Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers for more on the 'culture of honor' and much more - a fascinating read.


"******* coated *******s" - I am SO going to use that line!!

 

[Pabs D]

We have been asked not to put political opinion in our comments for understandable reasons. I have not been fond of Bush, the man, but I must agree with others who have posted that I found his response impressive; not only his quick motor responses but his manners and comments in the situation. Under fire, he responded well and I have greater respect for the man now than I did before. I fear this tells me more about myself than it does about Bush.

I got the impression that the shoe thrower is a reporter? What does it say about the news media when its members make the news rather than report it? Oh, my bad. I suppose to some extent this had been the case now for quite some time! :tinfoil:

Should a man of conviction, presumably invited to a news conference as a reporter, take such an opportunity to speak or act out as a symbol of their conviction and disrupt the conference as well as show utter disregard and respect for the parties involved?

If reporters are allowed to behave in such manners it would be no surprise if they get vetted on a grounds of their beliefs and are even denied attendance at events not of their liking or approval.

IMHO, this reporter did a serious disservice to his peers in the press in addition to the regards and respect of people in public office.

The situation could have been worse had he hit his mark or thrown something capable of even more damage. The shoe throwers actions were reprehensible and any light made of the event is unfortunate if it overshadows some real problems at the core.

I agree, the reporter did do a disservice to his peers. That being said, maybe this was personal - the reporter may have lost most of his family (collateral damage) as a result of US attacks or counter attacks, what have you. He did say "this is for the widows and orphans, you've killed thousands of Iraqis." I don't know what I'd do if I was in his shoes either. The whole scene seemed staged to me. Why would you duck then go upright again? I'd stay low and wait for secret service to take the guy out. BTW during his shoe affair interview, I noticed GW is looking a little younger - must be taking good care of himself these days.

 

[kaichu dento]

The whole scene seemed staged to me. Why would you duck then go upright again? I'd stay low and wait for secret service to take the guy out. BTW during his shoe affair interview, I noticed GW is looking a little younger - must be taking good care of himself these days.

I think I would have reacted in exactly the same manner, standing right back up to see what was next and the second, already having become aware of what was going on, just pass it with my hand, as he did.

 

[Taboot]

Ryan, I basically agree with you. It's a complicated set of factors but essentially most of the M.E. is still in a 'culture of honor' state and until it progrsses beyond that they will not be ready for democracy. The French and American citizenry (and this is the case in pretty much every modern republic/democracy) by and large SEIZED their freedom and democracy; it was not handed to them at gunpoint. If you get a chance pick up Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers for more on the 'culture of honor' and much more - a fascinating read.


"******* coated *******s" - I am SO going to use that line!!

Right. It is not enough to want freedom. One must demand it and take it either by force of will or force period. There is a 'culture of honor', but there is also a culture of waiting around to be told what to do next due to fear of action and change. Many people in America were against the Revolution. Between 50 - 65% of the population was either loyal to Britain or neutral.

From Wikipedia:
"Historians have estimated that approximately 40-45% of the colonists actively supported the rebellion while 15-20% of the population of the thirteen colonies remained loyal to the British Crown. The remaining 35-45% attempted to remain neutral.[5]
At least 25,000 Loyalists, led by General Justin Tullock, fought on the side of the British. Thousands served in the Royal Navy. On land, Loyalist forces fought alongside the British in most battles in North America. Many Loyalists fought in partisan units, especially in the Southern theater."[6]

 

[RyanA]

Ryan, I basically agree with you. It's a complicated set of factors but essentially most of the M.E. is still in a 'culture of honor' state and until it progrsses beyond that they will not be ready for democracy. The French and American citizenry (and this is the case in pretty much every modern republic/democracy) by and large SEIZED their freedom and democracy; it was not handed to them at gunpoint. If you get a chance pick up Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers for more on the 'culture of honor' and much more - a fascinating read.


"******* coated *******s" - I am SO going to use that line!!

Thanks Matt. I'll be honest, I stole that line from the TV show Scrubs.
I checked out Gladwell's site. His work looks very intersting. I'm going to pick up Outliers before I head into work today.

 

[MattK]

Gladwell's works are all pretty eye-opening. I recommend them all.

 

[tygger]

A popular economic journal ended its piece today with something quite funny.

*** Poor George Bush. At a press conference in Iraq, a journalist called him a dog, in Arabic, and then threw his sized-10 shoe at the president. Dubyah ducked.

What's wrong with America's journalists, we wonder. Have they no shoes?

http://www.dailyreckoning.com/

 

[kaichu dento]

A popular economic journal ended its piece today with something quite funny.

You're suggesting it's funny to throw shoes at people you don't know because the press has convinced you they're bad people? Who else would you find it funny to throw shoes at; anyone you don't agree with? :ironic:

 

[AlexGT]

We need to have shoe throw emoticons! LOL!

BTW

http://www.sockandawe.com/

 

[jzmtl]

We need to have shoe throw emoticons! LOL!

BTW

http://www.sockandawe.com/

 

[LukeA]

Who throws a shoe? Honestly?

Thank you!

Anyone remember when somebody stole the President's watch in Eastern Europe?