I'm not the type of person to complain about links form CPF and, Lord knows, there have been plenty that have been in questionable taste. However, this is generally a "G-rated" forum and a picture of this type is neither funny or trivial. It only glorifies what we are fighting against, Sadam's murder of his own people, in Iraq and I humbly request the link be removed. This is precisely why I prefer to get my news from radio.
[ QUOTE ] Sasha said:
Ted... I'm sure I'm not the only one who is wondering. Why not post the explaination you sent to me for everyone to see?
I'm off to jury duty. Have a lovely day gentlemen! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
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OK, Sasha, and have a just day. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I thought the picture would say more just standing alone, but here's why;
because you don't see it on TV.
because that is what happens when a person gets
shot in the head, usually. because it is gruesome. because that is what war is. because a picture tells the story better than a thousand words.
I think "dead boy with brains blown out" contains it's own warning --
If we want gross we can go any number of places on the internet but it's not why people come to CPF. We all know what happens when someone gets shot in the head, it's very ugly. Sensationalizing death for the desired shock factor is not the purpose of this thread or forum. I think most people would find the photo offensive and may follow the link out of trust of CPF. The photo is past the levels of decency established here so I ask you to self edit or I will do it for you.
Others and I will be happy to acknowledge as fact people get killed in war, including woman and children and it is a tragic, horrible, gross and sometimes serves no purpose. When a child is shot in the head it is especially terrible and shocking. I further acknowledge this will happen to some of the people in Iraq. There, your statement is made and accepted without the offensive graphics.
ok. i now understand the rationale for posting the pic without further explanation.
but what is the reason for posting it in the first place? the thread started with the story of the unhurt soldier shot 4 times...then it drifted to discussing the marines and british troops in general.
is the pic a statement of some sort? it appears that it is a great statement as to what the iraquis do to their own people...just like when civilians were fleeing Basrah (i think) across a bridge, when they were fired upon by their own people to force them back.
[ QUOTE ] bigcozy said:
I saw a post on another forum that said a US soldier got shot by a AK in the helmet and it resisted it also, I believe it was in Grenada. Judging by how old the AK's appear to be in pictures, I would think these are 7.62X39's. I have shot all the way through steel wheels and concrete blocks with my MAK-90, so I am impressed.
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That helmst is at the Ft. Bragg museum. I had a squad leader who jumped into Grenada at that time and told me about it. It's also pretty ompressive when you consider that the British (Army at least) helmets are quite a bit lighter than ours.
The Royal Marines are a little different than ours. Theirs could be considered more akin to the USMC Force Recon Marines. And they are some pretty bad boys.
Yes, Ted that picture does put a graphic face on war. But you could have started another thread about it instead of hijacking this one. It does also seem to reek of propaganda. If he was shot, shot meaning a bullet and not shrapnel, who shot him?
I think the picture would be appropriate anywhere war and soldiering is being discussed. In fact why not make it mandatory? I came across the picture, I came across this string named "shot 4 times in the head.." and something just clicked.
I think it's very telling that the loudest pro-war voices, though they acknowledge "people get killed in war," are the quickest to be offended by a picture of the face of war.. Don't they have the courage of their convictions to look war in the face, if only a picture, once in a while?
Or perhaps I should find it heart warming that so many good patriotic Americans are so willing for young men to die so they can feel proud, secure their beliefs, and comfortable in their sensibilities..and at the gas pump..
I think anyone clicking on a link so-named who then claim they are rudely surprised by what they see there are the same ones who need "caution HOT" printed on their coffee cups..and are probably the worst type of hypocrites too..
It doesn't matter who shot the kid, the point is, this is what war is, this is what happens to people. Maybe if some of us were a little more aware of that than we seem to allow ourselves to be, we'd have a little less violent death in this world.
I would consider moving it to another string, if that is demanded, but not removing it entirely.
the pic can be interpreted in many ways. im sure some will interpret it as a political statement--yet it could be used as both pro and anti war. interpretation is up to the viewer. you were shrewd to not add any additional info.
it is an interesting, sad and sobering pic: it makes you think--a lot. these are the realiities of war--it sure is an ugly (and sometimes necessary) biz. enough said.
my above post was tongue-in-cheek, sort of. i admit i was needling you a bit. i just have to razz you, Ted!
Ok Ted I see what you mean but you are wrong. I would pull a link to a photo of one of the 400,000 children that have died of malnutrition over the last 10 years in Iraq. I would pull a photo of Iraqi children killed in gas attacks by Saddam's regime. I would pull photos of dead children killed by people driving under the influence here in the US. Inappropriate is not a pro or negative, it's neutral. Anybody or group has the ability to be inappropriate and you have met the criteria with the photo. It's not that I don't have the courage of my convictions because I do. I have many friends fighting in Iraq and none blocking traffic, vandalizing or participating in other criminal activities. I would gladly serve in Iraq. I would be proud to have my daughter serve in Iraq. It's much easier to have courage of ones convictions when it means doing nothing and risking nothing.
I really didn't mean to "high jack" this string..but, re: "risking nothing" --
If they had cameras 2000 years ago, you could pull those photos too..Ok with me. Problem is, how to interupt this old habit we have of committing genocide to solve our problems?
I risked posting the picture, and the repurcussions, if any..and
the demonstrators certainly have the courage of their convictions to risk their very freedom to make their points.
(Would we even know they were alive if they didn't?)
I think it's well within their right to protest if that's what they choose to do. I also think the ones that violate the law should be punished to the maximum extent of the law and the wrist slapping needs to be stopped. I think the country would be better served if the anti-war crowd, all 30%, raised money for their cause that helped elect more people that share their views. If they really wanted to show the courage of their convictions they could unite into a massive neighborhood watch program to help protect our people. They could clean up cities and build homes all in the name of anti-war. This will never happen because the hard-core protestors are into protesting not bettering our country. Some of the organized protest groups are flat out anti American and have very suspect roots. Those groups don’t count because the courage of their convictions is the downfall of America. Most of the protestors are good Americans with a different opinion and if they want to think protesting shows the courage of their convictions, have at it.
Last week, the Shelby County Alabama Legislative Delegation hosted a "Stand Up for America Rally." More than 1,200 people attended including featured speakers Chief Justice Roy Moore, Adjutant General Mark Bowen and Alabama State Auditor Beth Chapman.
Attached is a copy of Mrs. Chapman's speech, which resulted in five standing ovations, tremendous applause and an encore. It's a short read and well worth it.
Stand Up for America Rally Speech By: Beth Chapman
I'm here tonight because men and women of the United States military have given their lives for my freedom. I am not here tonight because Sheryl Crowe, Rosie O'Donnell, Martin Sheen, George Clooney, Jane Fonda or Phil Donahue, sacrificed their lives for me.
If my memory serves me correctly, it was not movie stars or musicians, but the United States Military who fought on the shores of Iwo Jima, the jungles of Vietnam, and the beaches of Normandy. Tonight, I say we should support the President of the United States and the U.S. Military and tell the liberal, tree-hugging, Birkenstock-wearing, hippy, tie-dyed liberals to go make their movies and music and whine somewhere else.
After all, if they lived in Iraq, they wouldn't be allowed the freedom of speech they're being given here today. Ironically, they would be put to death at the hands of Sadam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden. I want to know how the very people who are against war because of the loss of life, can possibly be the same people who are for abortion?
They are the same people who are for animal rights but against the rights of the unborn. The movie stars say they want to go to Iraq and serve as "human shields" for the Iraqis. I say let them buy a one-way ticket and go.
No one likes war. I hate war! But the one thing I hate more is the fact that this country has been forced into war-innocent people have lost their lives - - and there but for the grace of God, it could have been my brother, my husband, or even worse my own son.
On December 7, 1941, there are no records of movie stars treading the blazing waters of Pearl Harbor.
On September 11, 2001; there are no photos of movie stars standing as "human shields" against the debris and falling bodies ascending from the World Trade Center. There were only policemen and firemen - -underpaid civil servants who gave their all with nothing expected in return.
When the USS Cole was bombed, there were no movie stars guarding the ship - - where were the human shields then?
If America's movie stars want to be human shields, let them shield the gang-ridden streets of Los Angeles, or New York City, let them shield the lives of the children of North Birmingham whose mothers lay them down to sleep on the floor each night to shelter them from stray bullets.
If they want to be human shields, I say let them shield the men and women of honesty and integrity that epitomizes courage and embody the spirit of freedom by wearing the proud uniforms of the United States Military. Those are the people who have earned and deserve shielding!
Throughout the course of history, this country has remained free, not because of movie stars and liberal activists, but because of brave men and women who hated war too. However, they lay down their lives so that we all may live in freedom. After all - "What greater love hath no man, that he lay down his life for his friend," or in this case a country.
We should give our military honor and acknowledgement and not let their lives be in vain. If you want to see true human shields, walk through Arlington Cemetery. There lie human shields, heroes, and the BRAVE Americans who didn't get on television and talk about being a human shield - they were human shields.
I thank God tonight for freedom - - those who bought and paid for it with their lives in the past - - those who will protect it in the present and defend it in the future.
America has remained silent too long! God-fearing people have remained silent too long!
We must lift our voices united in a humble prayer to God for guidance and the strength and courage to sustain us throughout whatever the future may hold.
After the tragic events of Sept. 11th, my then eleven -year-old son said terrorism is a war against them and us and if you're not one of us, then you're one of them.
So in closing tonight, let us be of one accord, let us stand proud, and let us be the human shields of prayer, encouragement and support for the President, our troops and their families and our country.
May God bless America, the land of the free, the home of the brave and the greatest country on the face of this earth
IMHO, the link and the post about the child were inappropriate to the thread and the forums in general. It appears to have had no other purpose than shock value or to enflame emotions. Some could consider this trolling.
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troll / trolling:
An outrageous message posted to a newsgroup or mailing list or message board to bait people to answer. Trolling is a form of harassment that can take over a discussion. Well meaning defenders can create chaos by responding to trolls. The best response is to ignore it.
Also, the person who posts such messages.
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As I mentioned in another thread, let's bring the maturity and responsiblility levels up a notch or two, eh? CPF is a civilized board and that means everyone needs to post responsibly if we're going to keep it that way. Self moderation is the hallmark of CPF. Just because it's the "cafe", doesn't mean it's a free-for-all.