Should we go to war?

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Anarchocap

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War is the health of the state. Thomas Jefferson was against it because it was an excuse to grow government and have rights trampled. He said something like "trade with everyone, diplomacy with no one."
 

ikendu

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My feeling is Support America...No war.

When Iraq invaded Iran, nobody cared 'cause we all hated the AyaTolla. Then, when it looked like Iran might win...we supported Saddam, even though he was using "weapons of mass destruction" against Iran (and later the Kurds). The U.S. even increased the aid to Iraq after the use of the gas. So...our government's complaint now about the use of these weapons then sure looks like "situational ethics".

We didn't really get interested until Saddam invaded Kuwait and began to threaten our oil interests. I actually think throwing out an aggressor from Kuwait made sense. But I'm not for invading Iraq now.

I don't think invading a coutry now (like Iraq) that has not attacked us makes any sense. When we oil and steel embargoed Japan before WWII, they felt they had no option but to attack us at Pearl Harbor. As Americans, we all feel like that was a dirty, dasterdly thing to do...they attacked us when we had not attached them! I mean, how could they?!?!!!

Well, if we join the list of "First Strike" nations (like Japan @ Pearl Harbor, Germany @ Poland, Soviets @Afganistan, etc.), I for one will be quite disappointed to see us take the "moral low ground".

Instead, lets continue to contain Iraq (which we have done successfully for 10 years) and focus on Al Queda! They are the ones that actually HAVE attacked us. We need a two pronged attack...destroy their bases of operation (which we did in Afganistan) AND start destroying the roots of terrorism. A 'Military-only" strategy (that apparently is all that Bush can imagine) will not be enough!

We need to figure out WHY we were attacked on 9-11. I do not buy the President's simplistic explanation that "they simply hate our freedom". Let's review our foreign policy and see what we are doing to create such hate and frustration in the Arab world.

We should be supporting the three great pillars of American freedom...(1) self-determination (democracy), (2) protection of minority rights against the will of the majority and (3) a free market to spur innovation, creativity and productivity. These are what have made America great!

When we support dictatorships like Saudi Arabia, we undermine our own values (I don't think it was an accident that most of the hijackers from 9-11 were Saudis). Some of this just might be at the root of why we were attacked.

So...let's focus on the roots of terrorism and contain Saddam. No war. Work to prevent the growth of terrorism!
 

JJHitt

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Originally posted by Gun Nut:
[...] Thomas Jefferson was against it because it was an excuse to grow government and have rights trampled. He said something like "trade with everyone, diplomacy with no one."
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Interesting... Marx said something very similar. Cant remember the exact quote but was something like "borders will be crossed by either trade or armies"...
 

ikendu

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"Of course, being British, we just do whatever Bush tells us."

Shucks, why not?

In the U.S., we do the same thing!
smile.gif


I mean after all, its only the Germans, French, every Nato ally except Britain and absolutely ALL of Iraq's neighbors (including Kuwait) that don't consider Iraq an immediate threat and don't want a war. Obviously, George W. Bush is smarter than ALL of those people. After all, look at his vast experience in foreign affairs!

But seriously, I see reports that 70% of Britons don't want a war...so why is Tony Blair supporting Bush?
 

dirobesh

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But seriously, I see reports that 70% of Britons don't want a war...so why is Tony Blair supporting Bush?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">.
That's a VERY good question and one that he seems curiously reticent in answering.
 

ikendu

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Originally posted by ledfoot:
God Bless our troops!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, at least we agree on that!

A National Guard medical unit just got called up from our town...our prayers and support go out to them!
 

Rotten Ron

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Libertarian and democratic drivel, not worth a serious response. If someone comes in and kills your whole family are you going to say, lets find out why they killed my family. Get real! As far as reports you see about the Brits feeling toward the war its more liberal biased sources, check your sources. france and germany are the only two that are not with us, Doesnt that leave 15 other nations with us? Could be 13 with us over there. So your facts are wrong.. peace nick drivel. Make sure you listen to Pres Bush tonite for a little education.Again.... all of iracs neighbors against this war?WRONG! check your facts people! Your like the liberal press reporting what you want not facts example:liberal press reports Blix saying we found no WMD(weapons of mass destruction), while in the same breath he said lots(TONS) of registered WMD material s missing and iraq is not complying with inspectors and letting them know where this WMD material is. Also later this week or next The White house will show saddoms ties to alquida. JOIN UP WITH AMERICA OR JOIN LOSERS LIKE susan sarandon, shawn penn, etc. STOP BLAMING AMERICA!!!!!
 

dirobesh

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As far as reports you see about the Brits feeling toward the war its more liberal biased sources, check your sources. france and germany are the only two that are not with us, Doesnt that leave 15 other nations with us?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">.
The vast majority of the British ARE against war. This is fact. Tony Blair is in favour. This unfortunately is also fact.
 

ikendu

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Originally posted by Rotten Ron:
...check your sources. france and germany are the only two that are not with us
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Got any links that I could follow to check this (otherwise you leave me at the mercy of that "liberal press")?
 

ledfoot

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One of the great things about living in this country, is that we can freely express our opinions. Ikendo and I disagree on some things, but I still respect his opinion and I hope that he feels the same towards mine. Our opinions are based on our experiences and we all see things a little differently. What a dull world it would be if we all thought and felt the same way about everything! I would hope that we can all agree though, that we would show our support for our troops, no matter the outcome! (war or not)
 

Stainless

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"Should we go to war?" Don't look now, but we HAVE BEEN AT WAR since desert storm. Does anyone remember those OFFICIAL references to a NEW WORLD ORDER? Anyone advocating a one world government is necessarily opposing American sovereignty . Our problem seems to be in being able to identify our real enemies.
 

PlayboyJoeShmoe

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I say yes. I also say that for GW to not become a one term wonder, the attack must start tonight, during the State of the Union.

Heck, if we'd have nuked Bahgdad on 9-12-2001 no one but liberals and radical muslims would have complained.

But there has been too much retoric now. We MUST attack.
 

DieselDave

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Originally posted by ikendu:
My feeling is Support America...No war.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A contradiction in itself.

I don't think invading a country now (like Iraq) that has not attacked us makes any sense. When we oil and steel embargoed Japan before WWII, they felt they had no option but to attack us at Pearl Harbor. As Americans, we all feel like that was a dirty, dastardly thing to do...they attacked us when we had not attached them! I mean, how could they?!?!!!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How do you know that? What makes you think Saddam hasn’t supported some of the following.
September 11, 2001 - Terrorists hijack four U.S. commercial airliners taking off from various locations in the United States in a coordinated suicide attack. In separate attacks, two of the airliners crash into the twin towers of the World Trade Center in New York City, which catch fire and eventually collapse. A third airliner crashes into the Pentagon in Washington, DC, causing extensive damage. The fourth airliner, also believed to be heading towards Washington, DC, crashes outside Shanksville, PA., killing all 45 people on board. Casualty estimates from New York put the possible death toll close to 5,000, while as many as 200 people may have been lost at the Pentagon crash site.
Oct. 12, 2000 - A terrorist bomb damages the destroyer USS Cole in the port of Aden, Yemen, killing 17 sailors and injuring 39.
Aug. 7, 1998 - Terrorist bombs destroy the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. In Nairobi, 12 Americans are among the 291 killed, and over 5,000 are wounded, including 6 Americans. In Dar es Salaam, one U.S. citizen is wounded among the 10 killed and 77 injured.
June 21, 1998 - Rocket-propelled grenades explode near the U.S. embassy in Beirut.
June 25, 1996 - A bomb aboard a fuel truck explodes outside a U.S. air force installation in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. 19 U.S. military personnel are killed in the Khubar Towers housing facility, and 515 are wounded, including 240 Americans.
Nov. 13, 1995 - A car-bomb in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia kills seven people, five of them American military and civilian advisers for National Guard training. The "Tigers of the Gulf," "Islamist Movement for Change," and "Fighting Advocates of God" claim responsibility.
Feb. 1993 - A bomb in a van explodes in the underground parking garage in New York's World Trade Center, killing six people and wounding 1,042.
Dec. 21, 1988 - A bomb destroys Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. All 259 people aboard the Boeing 747 are killed including 189 Americans, as are 11 people on the ground.
Apr. 1986 - An explosion damages a TWA flight as it prepares to land in Athens, Greece. Four people are killed when they are sucked out of the aircraft.
Apr. 1986 - A bomb destroys a West Berlin disco frequented by U.S. servicemen, killing one American and one German woman and wounding 150, including 44 Americans.
Dec. 1985 - Simultaneous suicide attacks are carried out against U.S. and Israeli check-in desks at Rome and Vienna international airports. 20 people are killed in the two attacks, including four terrorists.
Nov. 1985 - Hijackers aboard an Egyptair flight kill one American. Egyptian commandos later storm the aircraft on the isle of Malta, and 60 people are killed.
Oct. 1985 - Palestinian terrorists hijack the cruise liner Achille Lauro (in response to the Israeli attack on PLO headquarters in Tunisia) Leon Klinghoffer, an elderly, wheelchair-bound American, is killed and thrown overboard.
June 1985 - A TWA airliner is hijacked over the Mediterranean, the start of a two-week hostage ordeal. The last 39 passengers are eventually released in Damascus after being.
Oct. 1983 - A suicide car bomb attack against the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut kills 241 servicemen. A simultaneous attack on a French base kills 58 paratroopers.
Apr. 1983 - A suicide car bombing against the U.S. embassy in Beirut kills 63, including 17 Americans.

Instead, lets continue to contain Iraq (which we have done successfully for 10 years) and focus on Al Queda! They are the ones that actually HAVE attacked us.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See above!
We need to figure out WHY we were attacked on 9-11. I do not buy the President's simplistic explanation that "they simply hate our freedom". Let's review our foreign policy and see what we are doing to create such hate and frustration in the Arab world.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The same reason we were attacked for the last 20+ years by these same people. Look at the history and not just 9-11. We need the oil and we support Israel. We got involved with the Middle East because it has been a powder keg for decades.

We should be supporting the three great pillars of American freedom...(1) self-determination (democracy), (2) protection of minority rights against the will of the majority and (3) a free market to spur innovation, creativity and productivity. These are what have made America great!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did you forget how we achieved our freedom? Too many Americans want to wrap the blanket of freedom around themselves but then refuse to defend it.

When we support dictatorships like Saudi Arabia, we undermine our own values (I don't think it was an accident that most of the hijackers from 9-11 were Saudis). Some of this just might be at the root of why we were attacked.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I tend to agree.

So...let's focus on the roots of terrorism and contain Saddam. No war. Work to prevent the growth of terrorism!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That’s what the war is about. Here is another quote from a Time magazine article with Bin Laden in 1999.

TIME: The U.S. says you are trying to acquire chemical and nuclear weapons. How would you use these?

bin Laden: Acquiring weapons for the defense of Muslims is a religious duty. If I have indeed acquired these weapons, then I thank God for enabling me to do so. And if I seek to acquire these weapons, I am carrying out a duty. It would be a sin for Muslims not to try to possess the weapons that would prevent the infidels from inflicting harm on Muslims.

Iraq is one of the places bin Laden could get these weapons. To think Iraq is contained is naïve or wishful thinking. I don’t want to go to war but I do believe it is best to negotiate with your enemies once you have you boot in his chest and knife at his throat. Iraq will be a 30 day war. Most Iraqi’s will be surrendering to CNN reporters within 72 hours. Once we finish in Iraq we need to move on to the next country and on and on. As my hero Barney Fife once said, “You got to nip it, nip it in the bud.” The good news for the liberals and pacifist is we have an all-volunteer military so they can safely sit it out again and protest. Those young men and woman on the front lines chose to be there because they know freedom is not free. I thank God for America’s strength and pray for our leaders to use it wisely. Just as others I respect the opinions of those that disagree and am thankful we have the freedom to disagree. It is important to remember and we should never forget, freedom didn’t come cheap.
 

James S

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Though against going to war in general principle, one has to be for it in specific circumstances. Unfortunately I can't be sure if these are the specific circumstances or not. I keep hearing that we have information, but I don't see it being released. I wish Bush would spill the beans.

If we go to war the troops get my support completely! However the adminstration may not get my support at continued elections if I'm not convinced by the double secret info that I don't know yet.
 
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