SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

hc900

Newly Enlightened
Joined
May 11, 2017
Messages
42
Known issue for Ni-Mh battery:
it is useful to create a specific charging profile for each problematic battery.

Example
1] Charging current not greater than C/2
2] Maximum capacity with a margin of +10% or 20%
3] Cut Off timer calculated on maximum capacity with margin
4] -Delta V at least -4mV but never zero mV
 

SYZYGY

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Sep 6, 2019
Messages
147
Is there a website which i can see a list or even best recommendations regarding making a program for the charger?

no. i wish.

post a specific battery, ideally with a link to its datasheet or detailed specs. maybe someone can help.
 

MaestroDaVinci

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Nov 17, 2016
Messages
16
Location
Bulgaria
Well i was hoping for some site or something, but i guess not.
My main right now are AA, AAA, Li-Ion that are being used.
The AA and AAA are Eneloop white which i have been using for a while, but i don't know the exact additional settings that i need for this specific charger that maybe i could maybe improve the charging. And the Li-Ion, are KeepPower P1826K which i don't know if i need additional settings or just charge them at a specific rate.
 

SYZYGY

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Sep 6, 2019
Messages
147
Eneloop white

i'll get you started. the packaging says C=2000mAh for AA Eneloop White:

BATT TYPE: NiMH
MODE: Charge
CAPACITY: 2400mAh (1.2C)
C. CURRENT: 1A (0.5C)

D. CURRENT: OFF
C. RESTING: 0min
D.RESTING: OFF
CYCLE COUNT: OFF
CYCLE MODE: OFF
TARGET VOLT: 1.65V
DELTA PEAK: 3mV
TRICKLE C.: OFF
TRICKLE TIME: OFF
RESTART VOLT: OFF
D. REDUCE: OFF
CUT VOLT: OFF
CUT TEMP: 45°C
CUT TIME: 168min (C/I*1.4 = 2000mAh/1000mA*1.4 = 2.8h)

for discussion about this very thing, read the last page or so.

i leave it as an exercise for you to come up with the AAA profile. just do the same math.
 

MaestroDaVinci

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Nov 17, 2016
Messages
16
Location
Bulgaria
Thank you is there a specific way to make these programs because the charger is very much a huge amount of customization and yet some of the program seems to be off.
 

SYZYGY

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Sep 6, 2019
Messages
147
i think i just set the charger to advanced mode and then programmed it. if you don't have it in advanced mode, you don't get all the options.

for further information, read the manual i guess or try asking us a specific question. the manual explains how to create programs.
 

AlexLED

Enlightened
Joined
Jul 31, 2006
Messages
236
Basically, you need one program for each chemistry and capacity, so three in your case.
I usually only set the charge current to around 0.5 x capacity (for both NiMH and LiIon).
I dont even set the CAPACITY and CUT TIME, but of course they are additional safety features - especially if the charged is left unattended. (Which in my case is seldom.)

I started a table with the progams I need ... I need to finish that and will then try to post here. :)
 

SYZYGY

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Sep 6, 2019
Messages
147
You set a capacity cut value too low. Use Nominal Capacity x 1.2, then 3100mAh for Eneloop Pro AA batteries.
Anyway Gaudi's suggestions are right. If you set Delta Peak=3mV you should use 0.5C as charging current (as clearly stated by Panasonic).
Alternatevely (like I do) set Delta Peak=0dV and generally you can lower the charging current down to 0.3C.
The MC3000 charger uses a constant current charging method (not pulsed) and it is quite critical regarding the detection of the end charging point.

hi geppo,

can you please explain the thought process for lowering the charging current (relative to that used in the negative delta voltage method) when using the zero delta method? i.e. why drop to 0.3C in 0dV if you are ok with 0.5C in -dV. thanks
 

sbj

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Feb 19, 2017
Messages
144
The thinking behind it is probably:
A lower charging current triggers a lower temperature rise at the end of charging and thus also a lower voltage drop (delta peak) of the battery.

If the delta peak value is set too high, it may not always be reached with a lower charging current (e.g. 0.3C). The charger then does not recognize that the battery is full and continues to charge.

Another thought is:
If the setting: 0.3C charging current and -0dV end-of-charge detection function reliably in order to reliably trigger the end-of-charge detection of the charger, that would be even gentler on the battery due to the lower heating of the battery.

The problem is just:
What usually works well with new batteries often no longer works with older batteries.

Edit: On the other hand, I am of the opinion that with the -0dV setting (if it works), even with somewhat higher charging currents of 0.5 - 0.7C, the heating of the battery remains even low.

The problem with -odV is, that the charger is often switched off much too early.
 
Last edited:

SYZYGY

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Sep 6, 2019
Messages
147
extra info from the manual

Delta-peak sensibility. A technical parameter to control charge termination of NiMH/NiCd batteries through the commonly recommended negative delta voltage -dV or -dV/dt method, or through the zero delta voltage method, 0dV or 0dV/dt. When charging a healthy specimen at constant current the voltage graph normally peaks around full charge completion. A higher setting will ensure that this peak has been passed with certainty but will also charge longer than necessary. "0dV" will terminate the charging when the peak extends to a voltage plateau, i.e. does not show a well defined voltage drop. The latter may happen with old batteries or at very low charge rates or both. As a rule of thumb, use -dV for topped off charging and 0dV as no-brainer in all other cases.
 

sbj

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Feb 19, 2017
Messages
144
That sounds like 0dV is the recommended universal setting.
As I said, if the batteries are in good, like-new condition, I'll be there.

The problem are older batteries. Even with high delta peak settings of 6mV and more, I had premature charging shutdowns with them. And often not just once during a charge.

For such cases I have not yet found a setting where the charger runs through with certainty until it is fully charged.

Even with my much more expensive RC charger, with which I can also set a reflex mode, old NiMh batteries sometimes switch off prematurely
 

AlexLED

Enlightened
Joined
Jul 31, 2006
Messages
236
...

The problem are older batteries. Even with high delta peak settings of 6mV and more, I had premature charging shutdowns with them. And often not just once during a charge.

For such cases I have not yet found a setting where the charger runs through with certainty until it is fully charged.

Even with my much more expensive RC charger, with which I can also set a reflex mode, old NiMh batteries sometimes switch off prematurely
Yes, same for me ...
The older the batteries, the higher the iR, the wamer they get during charge, leading to dV kicking in and cancelling the charge.
Maybe try lowering the charge current - of course be carefull, as this can lead to overcharge when using dV for stopping the charge.

Maybe you can try to lower the iR by revitalizing the cell by discharge to at least 0.9V and then charging with 0.1C for 14 hrs.
 

Latest posts

Top