SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer

[fnsooner]

When I try to "ADD TO BAG" the charger WITH an accessory on www.hkequipment.net I end up with ONLY the accessory in the shopping cart. I can only add the charger by itself, if I select "-" in the "Accessories" dropdown list. Whose fault is that?

I missed the part about "select "-" in the "Accessories" dropdown list".

I preordered at HKE and it worked all fine. But only if you choose the "Checkout with PayPal" button. If you choose "Proceed to checkout" you cant choose the payment method. If you choose "Checkout with PayPal" you later got the same page as clicking on "Proceed to checkout" but now the payment method PayPal as there

Dang you...I mean thank you. I am in.

Can someone give me the link for HKE
Thanks

HKE

 

[Gauss163]

This is correct method for fully charging LiIon batteries.

CC-CV is but one of many suitable algorithms for charging Li-ion. More modern algorithms may employ more stages and may be (much) faster, among other advantages, e.g. see the Philips and Telsa algorithms mentioned in this thread.

 

[dssguy1]

Anybody notice the super creepy long pinky fingernail on the dude's left hand in the video. Fast forward to 8 seconds from the end and you can see it.

That's a cocaine fingernail!

GG GearBest, GG!

 

[Viking]

In CV-phase the current decreases. Eventually it reaches termination current, e.g. 50mA.

Constant current means constant 3.0A all the time until program termination.

But this is not the way how to charge Lithium-Ion batteries.

For LiIon battery charging you have a constant current phase (CC-phase, 3.0A), followed by a decreasing current phase (CV-phase, 3.0A->50mA).

If the current is decreasing, it is not constant. It is decreasing.

This is correct method for fully charging LiIon batteries.

Thank You kreisl

 

[GMUGNIER]

Anybody notice the super creepy long pinky fingernail on the dude's left hand in the video. Fast forward to 8 seconds from the end and you can see it.

That's a cocaine fingernail!

GG GearBest, GG!

Now why are we jumping to all sorts of powdery conclusions? It might be for Dinkle Berries..

 

[billcushman]

Kreisl, at 1A charge current is the MC3000 true 1A constant current, or does it use PWM to achieve 1A?

 

[Curetia]

Look a few pages back and you will see that the answer was already given...
It is constant current

 

[kreisl]

Kreisl, at 1A charge current is the MC3000 true 1A constant current, or does it use PWM to achieve 1A?

on your Li500 the current is not a horizontal flat line (=constant current) but crazily fluctuating, call it "PWM" or "pulsating" i don't care how you call it: in that linked post (Excel graphs), not only the blue graph (=actual current, momentary value) but also the red graph (=virtual current, 10sec averaged) and the green graph (=virtual current, 60sec averaged) are far from being horizontal flat lines!

on the mc3k the current is a horizontal flat line (=constant current): in a similar post (Excel graphs), both the blue graph (=actual current, momentary value) and the red graph and the green graph would be horizontal flat lines, overlapping each other perfectly.

and that is called true constant current. as Curetia said, thanks.

 

[Gauss163]

and btw, on your Li500 the current is not a horizontal flat line (=constant current) but crazily fluctuating.

fyi: Some studies claim pulse charging is better in some ways. Thus the non-pulsed CC-CV algorithm used by the MC3000 is not necessarily better than the pulsed methods used by cheaper chargers. In fact there are claims that pulsed charging may be better for both performance and health - see below.

From Capacity fade studies of LithiumIon cells, by B. Popov et al.

Conclusions

• Pulse charging increases the discharge capacity of the cell.

• Pulse charging decreases the cell impedance by increasing the utilization of Li.

• Discharge capacities evaluated at different cycle numbers indicated that pulse charged batteries retain more capacity.

From The effects of pulse charging on cycling characteristics of commercial lithium-ion batteries by Jun Li et al.

The results show that pulse charging is helpful in eliminating concentration polarization, increasing the power transfer rate, and lowering charge time by removing the need for constant voltage charging in the conventional protocol ... pulse charging maintains the stability of the LiCoO2 cathode better than dc charging and inhibits the increase in the thickness of the passive film on the anode during cycling.

 

[kreisl]

For now i prefer beautiful graphs though as seen in textbooks, wikipedia and battery spec sheet PDF's :huh:

 

[Gauss163]

For now i prefer beautiful graphs though as seen in textbooks, wikipedia and battery spec sheet PDF's :huh:

Given the choice between simpler graphs vs. better capacity, health and cycle life, I suspect that most users would prefer the latter. It's ironic that the cheaper chargers may actually turn out to be much better than the so-called "dreamcharger" on these important matters. Back to the drawing board... (or drastic price reductions!)

 

[kreisl]

If there is a clear industrial trend towards other charging algorithms in future, it is no problem to support them in MC3000.

One can update firmware with 1 click of a mouse.

 

[Gauss163]

If there is a clear industrial trend towards other charging algorithms in future, it is no problem to support them in MC3000. One can update firmware with 1 click of a mouse.

Highly unlikely that such a radical change would be made available in a firmware upgrade (I have never seen such). Not to mention that SkyRC does not have a good track record on firmware upgrades.

 

[kreisl]

OIC

 

[billcushman]

Kreisl, Thanks for the information. I pre-ordered a MC3000 as soon as it was available. I have not looked at the Lii-500 current using an Oscilloscope (Tektronix 465B) but have noticed slight variation beyond the first two digits when measuring current with a Fluke 289. I like the Lii-500 better than the Opus (which I avoided due to bugs and PWM). The HKJ Lii-500 test shows only slight current variation on most Li-Ion charging but the Opus shows huge pulsing. The MC3000 is in a totally different class from the other chargers. I was told my MC3000 will probably ship on Nov 24.

 

[Gauss163]

@billcushman Please read above. Pulsed charging need not be bad, and may be better.

 

[_UPz]

Highly unlikely that such a radical change would be made available in a firmware upgrade (I have never seen such).

Why? :thinking:

 

[dssguy1]

You would really be changing the way the charger works and not just adding a tiny feature or functionality. Most Firmware updates are for bugs, and tiny features. I wouldn't expect a major overhaul in how the product works through Firmware.

Don't get me wrong, I pre-ordered but I am mostly just assuming they can get this right since they have a huge line of very expensive chargers already released.

 

[billcushman]

@billcushman Please read above. Pulsed charging need not be bad, and may be better.

I have several NiMh chargers (for 24 volts batteries) that use pulse charging and it has advantages in that application. There is lots of discussion of the advantage and disadvantages of pulse charging on various sites, but I have found little information on pulse charging for Li-Ion. Most Li-Ion datasheets use true CC/CV charging for reported data. Tesla and some other use unique and specialized charging algorithms. My question was for information. I was sure Kreisl would have reliable information.

 

[Gauss163]

I have found little information on pulse charging for Li-Ion.

It is not difficult to find studies on pulse charging Li-ion. I already gave some citations above. Doing web searches on the obvious keywords will locate much more.

In any case, my point was not to recommend major changes to the MC3000. Rather, my point was simply to refute the outdated claims that pure CC-CV is the only suitable way to charge Li-ion.

PS You can find links to the algorithms of Tesla, Philips, etc. in this thread (though that is a bit tangential to the above).