SLR film camera help

[eebowler]

SLR film camera help

Hello everyone. I am looking for a film camera and am not too sure what direction to go in... What seems to be my best (and least affordable) choices are the Nikon F/N80 or the Canon elan7.

What I don't like about the elan7 is that under low light, the auto focus doesn't work all that well.The nikon apparantly beats it in this respect. What I am not too sure about the nikon is 1) how fast it focuses compared to canon. 2) how good are the lenses that I can afford compared to canon. Focus speed is especially hyped up by canon with their USM system.

The canon's film advance speed is 4 fps while that of the nikon is 2.5fps. Canon wins here.My last camera was a EOS 500 (rebel) and film advance was only 1fps so continuous shooting was not something I never catered for. It would be nice though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Camera uses. hiking, camping and possibly some mountain biking(basic stuff too.) The camera will be exposed to dusty, humid (tropical)and even moist/wet conditions. Some pictures will be taken in dark, heavily forested areas.

With respect to canon, what is AI Servo AF about and does nikon have an equivalent feature?

Would it be better to buy a camera online or to get someone to buy it from a store?

What do you think about this ebay seller/deal? I'm impressed.



The 28-105 f/3.5-4.5 USMII lens is the best canon lens I can afford to buy.

How good is this nikon lens and this lens ($70 more expensive!) compared to the canon option?

Finally (or maybe not) are there any other brands (Minolta, Sigma) that are equivalent in performance?

Thank you everyone for your inputs.

 

[nekomane]

Re: SLR film camera help

Hi eebowler,

Can't answer all your questions as I have never used the Canon, and have only used the digital D100 (based on the F80), but some advice.

Do you still have lenses from your older Canon you plan to use? If you do, just go with the Canon unless you find a particular feature on the Nikon a must. IMHO I don't think most SLR cameras in the same price range are that different.

What lens did you have on the bodies to compare the AF speed? It would not be fair if you had a 24mm/f2.8 on the Nikon and a 105/f4.5 on the Canon.

Save money to buy a good lens. The brighter the better. Auto focus will perform much reliably under low light/low contrast situations because it can 'see' better, and of course you can use available light instead of using the built in flash or other artificial light sources. I will stress, the lens is most important. The problem is that a good bright lens will cost more than the camera itself and will be much larger/heavier..

Canon's USM is a system using an Ultra Sonic Motor built around the lens for focusing. The Nikons have the same thing called the Silent Wave Motor. A circuilar motor is installed around the lens whereas a non-SWM lens will move the focus ring using a mechanism built in the camera body and is slower. Unfortunately, both Nikon lenses you mentioned are non-SWM. The only SWM lens in this focul length range (that is not 'ultra wave' expensive) is the 24-85mm 3.5/4.5G, still at about 350$.

Hope this answers some of your questions

nekomane

 

[Bravo25]

Re: SLR film camera help

I looked at both when I started a photography business, nad went with Canon. The quality is the same as Nikon today, and the extras are cheaper. There are those that will swear by Nikon, but in todays world this is only a brand dedication, both are equally well made. The AI you refer to keeps the camera constantly focusing while an object moves toward or away from you. If you would be interested in an Elan 2 with very little use, drop me a PM.

 

[AnotherDaveH]

Re: SLR film camera help

I have an Elan 7 and like it a lot. The exposure/focus control options are really pretty spectacular. As you're aware, all of the affordable zooms will have fairly small minimum apertures which will cause slow auto-focus in low light. I picked up a used 1.8 50mm prime which is affordable and a real gem of an lens.

With everyone moving to digital, film gear is really getting to be a good deal.

Dave.

ps: photographyreview.com has a great user feedback page for *any* piece of equipment you might be thinking of and keh.com is a great resource for used stuff and getting a feel for prices.

 

[Deanster]

Re: SLR film camera help

Hi -

I'm an aggressive amateur photographer, own the original Elan, and the Elan IIe, and have looked at the Elan 7 extensively.

Overall, I like Canon over Nikon - I don't think that in 99.9% of situations there's any difference in quality, but I like Canon's interface, button placement, and handling MUCH better. The one place that Canon really seems to dominate is in action photography, where their USM lenses and high-end camera autofocus seems to be qualitatively better - for mere mortals with mid-range cameas, it's not really a big thing.

As for the Elan 7 itself, I'd much rather have the older Elan IIe - They've added more focus points for the Elan 7, which is good, but taken away the dedicated Autofocus IR Assist light, which is very bad, IMHO.

I'm more than happy to trade a couple extra focus points for the ability to focus on subjects in low light. You can add one of Canon's flash heads to provide the assist light, but I really like having it on the camera.

As noted above, the AI focus is a constant-tracking or predictive focus, which I almost never use. It does a pretty good job if you're shooting something moving towards or away at a constant speed, like a car or airplane. It goes a little nutty with something moving randomly, like a small child.

Long story short, unless there's something on the Elan 7 which is a big deal for you, I'd suggest you buy a new or lightly used Elan II or IIe, save a bundle, and spend it on lenses.

Canon glass is awfully nice, and the USM is amazing, but I really end up using my Sigma 28-200 lens and Canon 50mm 1.8 the most. The versatility of the Sigma means I can almost always get a quick shot, and the 50mm does low-light, some portraits, and other stuff. The third lens I use a LOT is a 90mm 2.0 Macro lens.

My 28-105 and 70-200 zooms mostly stay home - while better lenses technically, swapping all the time makes me crazy - I'm more than happy to trade versatility for the last few % points of lens perfection. But that's just me.

 

[matt_j]

Re: SLR film camera help

I used to sell cameras for a while and there is not that much different between Nikon and Canon. Canon is preferred by sports photographers while Nikon is wildlife favorites. I was "the Nikon guy"

I use Nikon because it was my first camera I ever got and continued using Nikons because button placement, readout and feel of the equipment was familiar to me. You may want to get Canon (since you own one) for the same reason. I like 3d metering on Nikon better thou. I also like fisheye on the Nikon. Give me a Nikon, 24-120 and a fisheye and I'm happy as a clam.

I never did any speed shooting so fps didn't matter to me. It used to be that Nikons were stronger because of metal lens mounts to support their heavier lenses but I think those times are gone. But Canons ha more affordable lenses because they didn't have to be backwards compatible.

My favorite lens which I miss on D100 is 24-120. I think that this is the only lens you will ever need. 28-105 is a great piece of glass as well with decent macro but I like the 24mm focal length. 28-200 is an all around lens but it is not as bright, doesn't have as good macro and in my opinion is not as sharp. Now also it is a bit of money waste. You see this lens only goes to 200mm. If you want to buy another longer lens you will have to buy a 75-300 which kind of doubles up a lot of focal length you already own. Buy the 28-105 and later down the road pick up the 75-300… That's a nice all around setup.

As far as buying it used or new… BH has the best new prices out there with the best customer service… KEH is the best for used market. I bought used equipment in the past and it served me well especially on the very expensive pieces. Since cameras and lenses now have a lot of electronics in them I like to see some kind of warranty on my equipment even if it is 30 days from the used eq. dealer. Ebay usually doesn't offer something like that and if seller is dishonest you get stuck with the lemon.

Your purchase should be dictated by the lens not by the body. Ask yourself what do you want to do and than pick the lens. Once you have the right lens buy the body with it.


SOme of the stuff I did with my Nikons:
http://brunerdog.tripod.com/belize/index.htm
http://brunerdog.tripod.com/pages/IMG0001copy.htm
http://brunerdog.tripod.com/africa/index.htm

Good luck. Getting the camera is almost as fun as shooting it.

Matt
http:\\brunerdog.tripod.com

 

[sniper]

Re: SLR film camera help

That is called marketing! That is what keeps camera (and flashlight) manufacturers in business. (NEW and IMPROVED, multi megaframmis..silicon rectifier controlled Bunab receptacle with optional weatherprofing AND a mail-in rebate!) HOW can you resist?

It's not the equipment, it is the photographer! Many people think if they put out $$$ for the latest, high-zoot camera offering, they will automatically take great pixes. NOT so! True, the new electronic cameras are marvels of complexity, and do have some very neat features, but plunk somebody like John Shaw or Patricia Caulfield in the middle of nowhere with a manual focus camera, tripod and light meter,and they would produce glorious photos.(You don't believe that, look at Ansel Adams'work. Some of the time, he didn't use a light meter.)

The metering technology and flash control in even the least advanced of the new cameras is definitely worth the price of admission, tho.

It is much more expensive to change camera systems, if you have a large investment in gear. Get something that will use as much of your present equipment as possible, then learn to use what you have to its ultimate! Then GET OUT THERE AND TAKE SOME PICTURES! That's the best way to improve your pix. Chances are, you will be pleased with your work. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif Then, you can be... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif Oh, what should you buy? Whatever feels best in your hands. Hopefully, it will be the system you already have. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[bjn70]

Re: SLR film camera help

For Canon vs. Nikon, handle them and pick the one that you like best. The N80 is a good camera and the people who have them like them. (I have an N70 if you can't tell from my user name.) The N75 is also good, a little cheaper and a few less features.

For lenses, unless you want to make large enlargements you can do well with all of the different Canon or Nikon lenses, and for that matter with the better lenses form Sigma, Tamron or Tokina.

The N80 and similar Canon models are popular and are heavily discounted by most stores these days so you could buy local, internet, or ebay. Because of the discounts you can't save all that much by not buying new.

 

[cdf]

Re: SLR film camera help

I went Nikons due to lens availability , especially on the used market . I already had a Nikon D70 , so an F100 was a natural . All my lenses from my macro to my image stabalized 400mm are interoperable .

 

[bjn70]

Re: SLR film camera help

eebowler- did you see this post:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=863273&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

 

[eebowler]

Re: SLR film camera help

My original camera had a Tamron 28-200 aspherical lens. I'm used to zoom (and love it)but can't really afford anything more than a 28-105 lens. I'm selling the camera because the slowness of the lens was driving me crazy. I would miss photos because the blasted lens would be dancing arround trying to focus. My only savior was the IR system from the flash. (selling flash too)

[ QUOTE ]
nekomane said:
Unfortunately, both Nikon lenses you mentioned are non-SWM. The only SWM lens in this focul length range (that is not 'ultra wave' expensive) is the 24-85mm 3.5/4.5G, still at about 350$.
nekomane

[/ QUOTE ] That's a big OUCH! Another point for canon.

 

[bjn70]

Re: SLR film camera help

The focus-assist lenses will rotate themselves faster than the lenses that use the motor in the camera body, but that is of very little importance until you get into the long focal lengths. My normal lenses, including my Tamron 28-200, focus very fast on my N70- I'm talking typically under 1/4 second. (My Nikon 75-300 is slower geared so it takes about 1 second to go from one end to the other.) As I understand the focus-assist lenses (USM or ASM or hyper or whatever) are equally expensive whether they are Canon or Nikon or Sigma.

Now if you are talking about focusing in low light situations, that is independent of the mechanism in the lens. That is up to the sensor in the camera body to determine where optimal focus is. If it can't find optimal focus then it runs the lens back and forth a few times. It helps to find a subject with a little bit of contrast and it helps to have a faster lens.

 

[sniper]

Re: SLR film camera help

One of the best ways to effectively increase the sensitivity of your camera is to up the film speed. I make 14X17 court exhibits from 400 speed negatives, which are taken by our State's finest, not one of which are even passable photographers. I had a discussion with one of the lab techs, and she told me that they didn't want to change from the 200 speed film they have used since it was invented, to 400, because they "didn't want to confuse the officers." Hmmmm...
Of course, many focusing sensors do not not do well in low contrastand/or ultra low light settings, particularly in the "consumer grade" cameras that most of us can afford, but that is a rather universal problem, and covered in the owner's manuals. If you want more focusing sensitivity, and at lower cost, buy the universally available 50mm ~f/1.8 lens that ALL camera manufacturers build, which will allow better focusing in low light. No zoom? But, of course. Move in closer,that'll do it every time. Just don't forget to check your six. I backed off a dock once, backing up for "just the right" composition. I If all else fails, set the camera on manual, focus manually, and BRACE the camera.(You do have a tripod, right?) That does surprisingly well in ugly light situations.
One thing that I learned from John and Judy Gerlach is that sometimes there is just not enough light for a picture. That's a fact, and no matter what you do, or hope, or wish, sometimes a picture isn't possible. Good photographers know when that is, and just wait for better light. Oh, and did I mention, although it sounds as if you are heavily invested in Canon, the Nikon N 80 is a great camera. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Deanster]

Re: SLR film camera help

Sniper - just about spewed my drink into my keyboard at the vision of you going off a dock... I actually moved to mostly zooms after backing over a stump and going head over heels onto a nest of yellowjackets, so I feel your pain.

Did your gear survive the dunking?

 

[Deanster]

Re: SLR film camera help

eebowler - was the lens having trouble focusing due to low light, or was the camera's autofocus a little weak, and taking the lens through a full sweep to try to find a focus point? Or both?

I won't own a camera without a decent IR assist light anymore...

 

[matt_j]

Re: SLR film camera help

Negative films right now are so good that grain is hardly an issue... Unless you are trying to enlarge 1/10 of your negative into a 20by30 image....

 

[sniper]

Re: SLR film camera help

[ QUOTE ]
Deanster said:
Did your gear survive the dunking?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, Deanster, but it caused great hilarity every time it was told in our family,(with proper embellishment) for YEARS! Never take your Dad and little sister with you if you're gonna do something dumb. That was in the days before all the standard electronic gizwillies, and it was fresh water, so a little disassembly, drying and lubrication did just fine. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

 

[LEDmodMan]

Re: SLR film camera help

FYI, there's a Canon EOS Elan II with 38-80mm Ultrasonic lens for sale for $325 over in B/S/T non-lights right now, here. It calls to me...

Ooops, sorry. It's already been mentioned.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

Re: SLR film camera help

For years after Autofocus became popular, I was still plugging away with an AE1.

When I finally bit the bullet, I got an EOS650 from a camera exchange place here in town. It can be a bit persnickety focusing, particularly with a long zoom lense.

But being an old model, it's built like a brick *&^% house!

I have all non Canon lenses (with the 50 1.8 exception), mostly Sigma or Tamron, and take nice shots when I do my part!

I do/did Canon due to price, and that I used Canon before.

 

[glockman99]

Re: SLR film camera help

I have a pair of Canon EOS Elan IIe, along with a bag-full of lenses and flash units...Canon IS the way to go. I had used Nikons for YEARS (from F2's to 8008s), but there are features of the Canons that Nikon just didn't offer.