Speaking of cosmetic foglights...

[Hilldweller]

I was informed today that the 2010 Jeep JK Wranglers come with PSX24w bulbs.
What the dip are they? I found cross references to 9009 or H16 bulbs.

I have a 2008 and it has 9145 bulbs. Fine for what they're supposed to do...

 

[Hamilton Felix]

Well, I googled it. My first hit was this:

http://autonews.gasgoo.com/auto-new...market-needs-compact-energy-saving-bulbs.html

...which includes this paragraph (bold type mine):

This can be realized on redesigning our existing products that are already very successful in the market. For example we already have a mature signaling bulbs products with more than 60 years history, but we are today bringing a new HiPerVision bulb series to the market, which uses the TV CRT(Cathode Ray Tube) sealing technology and Halogen bulb filament technology. The HiPerVision bulb has a lifetime of 8000 hours, and consumes less energy. HiPerVision PSX24W bulb can be used to replace 55W H3 bulb.

My next hit was a JK Wrangler forum thread here:

http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.php?p=1469529

...titled : 2010 JK's use H3 fog light bulbs now ( PSX24W) not 9145


One guy said they're the same as H3, one guy said not at all alike.

I found this: http://www.unece.org/trans/doc/2005/wp29gre/TRANS-WP29-GRE-54-07e.doc

...draft of changes to regulations. It has some useful data. I rather suspect the new bulb is a low output H3.

And there's this thread: http://www.jkowners.com/forum/showthread.php?p=294565

And this thread:

http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.php?p=1469529

...titled: 2010 JK's use H3 fog light bulbs now ( PSX24W) not 9145


I tried the image search and got pictures of bulbs NOT H3. And this Wikipedia piece:

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...=/images?q=PSX24W&hl=en&safe=active&sa=G&um=1

...doesn't really help, because it doesn't include images of the new bulb.

But I'm sticking with my low power H3 guess. Perhaps someone else can dig up some really good optical test data. I find it hard to believe a 24 watt bulb will put out light anywhere near a 55 watt bulb.

 

[-Virgil-]

It's nothing at all like an H3, and it's not an "H16", and I don't know who made up that silly "9009" number, either. It's a PSX24W. The Philips HiPerVision line is an ultralong-life, ultrahigh-efficacy line of small incandescent bulbs with highly precise filament placement for signal (brake, turn, DRL) and fog lamp functions. The fog lamps that use it -- like most other fog lamps, see the thread referenced by the title of this thread -- are cosmetic toys not capable of doing anything but complying with the fog lamp regulation. That line in the press release that says "HiPerVision PSX24W bulb can be used to replace 55W H3 bulb" means at the design stage of new lamps, not in existing H3 lamps.

Full specs start on page 121 of ECE R37.

 

[Hilldweller]

It's nothing at all like an H3, and it's not an "H16", and I don't know who made up that silly "9009" number, either. It's a PSX24W. The Philips HiPerVision line is an ultralong-life, ultrahigh-efficacy line of small incandescent bulbs with highly precise filament placement for signal (brake, turn, DRL) and fog lamp functions. The fog lamps that use it -- like most other fog lamps, see the thread referenced by the title of this thread -- are cosmetic toys not capable of doing anything but complying with the fog lamp regulation. That line in the press release that says "HiPerVision PSX24W bulb can be used to replace 55W H3 bulb" means at the design stage of new lamps, not in existing H3 lamps.

Full specs start on page 121 of ECE R37.

So, what to do with/about the lamps? Replace the housing wholesale fashion like the H13 and run something with a 55 watt bulb?
There are two I'm sure will fit exactly, Mopar (9145) and Delta. The Delta piece is pretty but looks dubious in build quality to me.


Edit: I should point out that the appeal of these lights to our demographic is the ability to see obstacles at fairly short range, rarely traveling over 20 mph ---- most often at 3-5 mph.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

Wow. Well, that sure sounds like a waste. But then, factory fog lights are most often little better than useless. Thanks for the update. I don't think I'll have any difficulty avoiding the PSX24W. I doubt I'll ever again buy a new car.

 

[-Virgil-]

So, what to do with/about the lamps? Replace the housing wholesale fashion like the H13 and run something with a 55 watt bulb?

Well, we don't measure light performance in watts, but yeah, the whole housing has to be replaced if you want real working lamps there. I haven't seen either the early or late JK fog light out of its mounting; perhaps if there were some pics a bright idea might occur to me for easily-adapted better lights.

There are two I'm sure will fit exactly, Mopar (9145) and Delta.

The 9145-bulb units are still not serious fog lights, but they're going to produce more usable light than the 24w item. And for your non-street purposes you can easily and effectively retrofit a 9155 bulb instead of 9145, for about 950 lumens instead of 810.

The Delta piece is pretty but looks dubious in build quality to me.

From what I've seen, everything Delta sells is "developing world"-quality cheez. Their headlights are made by Wesem of Poland...even cars from behind the iron curtain like the Lada came with better lights from the factory.

I should point out that the appeal of these lights to our demographic is the ability to see obstacles at fairly short range, rarely traveling over 20 mph ---- most often at 3-5 mph.

How much adaptation are you willing to do? I'm thinking Valeo Fogstar, Hella Micro DE, or something like that...or even better, a set of Hella 50mm or 60mm or 90mm projector low beam modules.

 

[Hilldweller]

How much adaptation are you willing to do? I'm thinking Valeo Fogstar, Hella Micro DE, or something like that...or even better, a set of Hella 50mm or 60mm or 90mm projector low beam modules.

In my personal case, none. When my 9145's blow, I'll likely put in 9155's and a harness. My bumper would need to be removed and modified to mount another assembly ---- and that's too much of a project now that the winch lives there...

But, for the new guys that have stock bumpers and the new Barbie-lights, I think we can start getting creative.
I'll try to find a photo.

 

[Hilldweller]

Well, we don't measure light performance in watts, but yeah, the whole housing has to be replaced if you want real working lamps there. I haven't seen either the early or late JK fog light out of its mounting; perhaps if there were some pics a bright idea might occur to me for easily-adapted better lights.

This is the new bulb:

Edit: (huge photo not really needed.)

 

[-Virgil-]

Yes, it is. It's a PSX24W. And...?

 

[Hilldweller]

Yes, it is. It's a PSX24W. And...?

I'm still trying to get a picture and dimensions on the reflector from the guy so we can dream up ways for him to spend his money and improve the lighting...

 

[-Virgil-]

Maybe trim down that giant picture ?

 

[Hilldweller]

Maybe trim down that giant picture ?

I could just get rid of it; I borrowed it from the fellow with the '10 Wrangler anyhow.

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

Scheinwerfermann,

A popular aftermarket fog unit at the HIDP forums are "blazer" brand fog projectors using the 8xx series bulb. What is your take on these? I can find some output shots and rehost here if you aren't a member there

http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23810

 

[-Virgil-]

"blazer" brand fog projectors using the 8xx series bulb.

Dumb waste of money to replace garbage with (hacked) garbage. Blazer = Chinese junk, and the 800-series bulbs are totally inadequate for any kind of real illumination application. They're for cosmetic toy fog lights only. They have low flux, sloppy filament placement specs, and tons of of optical noise (uncontrollable reflections off the bulb glass). The usual reasons not to use an "HID kit" apply here, too (even more so because we're talking about lamps for use in bad weather).

I'd say it's amazing to me how much momentum can build up from ignorant advice put forth by people who have no idea what they're talking about or doing, but who nevertheless speak in authoritative tones based on nothing but what they think they understand from a vendor's website (or a product's box) and what they think they see of the results they achieve...but it's not amazing at all. It's totally par for the course.

Say it again: If you need to see well, you need good unhacked lamps made by a real maker, appropriately selected, appropriately installed, equipped with an appropriate bulb, and appropriately used.

 

[Titang9]

Scheinwerfermann, I know this is an old threat but I'm trying to find a good replacement for my PSX24 bulbs. They burn out fast and are expensive replacements. Any ideas? What about LED brands?

Tanks

 

[-Virgil-]

If they're burning out fast, you're using your fog lamps far too much. They should be turned off unless there is thick fog, heavy rain, or blinding snow. "LED bulbs" do not work safely or effectively in any exterior lights on any vehicle, and despite their wide availability they are illegal. The only legitimate maker of the PSX24W bulb is Philips.