Stainless Steel McGizmo

[Shooter21]

Does don also make stainless steel models? id be interested if he does.

 

[Drywolf]

Don currently offers only Ti lights. The used market has some other options, mainly aluminum.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...mo-Available-Lights-Pricing-and-Ordering-Info



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[precisionworks]

Does don also make stainless steel models? id be interested if he does.

Stainless comes in many flavors, as does titanium, but none of the stainless alloys has properties that are comparable to Ti6-4. Some of the disadvantages of stainless alloys (specifically comparing SS316 to Ti6-4):

1. Much lower tensile strength. 75 ksi versus 135 ksi.

2. Tremendously lower yield strength. 30 ksi versus 130 ksi.

3. Almost twice as heavy per unit volume. Density of SS316 is 0.29 lbs/in³ compared to 0.16 lbs/in³ for Ti6-4. That means that a SS light of identical proportions will weigh twice as much as a titanium light.

Stainless stock is less expensive & slightly easier to machine than titanium & it is sometimes used in lower cost lights for those reasons.

(Technical data obtained from Metals Handbook Desk Edition, published by ASM)

 

[uknewbie]

Stainless comes in many flavors, as does titanium, but none of the stainless alloys has properties that are comparable to Ti6-4. Some of the disadvantages of stainless alloys (specifically comparing SS316 to Ti6-4):

1. Much lower tensile strength. 75 ksi versus 135 ksi.

2. Tremendously lower yield strength. 30 ksi versus 130 ksi.

3. Almost twice as heavy per unit volume. Density of SS316 is 0.29 lbs/in³ compared to 0.16 lbs/in³ for Ti6-4. That means that a SS light of identical proportions will weigh twice as much as a titanium light.

Stainless stock is less expensive & slightly easier to machine than titanium & it is sometimes used in lower cost lights for those reasons.

Titanium is far stronger like you say. For almost any application though 316 would be more than strong enough. That said the stronger the better.

Weight can be a disadvantage but not always. I have a 316 Elektrolumens EDC XML and the 580g of weight gives it an advantage over titanium when used for impact, breaking or as a weapon etc. Some people want the extra weight.

 

[precisionworks]

For almost any application though 316 would be more than strong enough.

Actually for almost any application Alloy 6061 aluminum would be plenty strong :devil:

If aluminum, stainless & titanium lights are kept in a drawer & never dropped onto concrete they all work well. Titanium does better than any other commonly available flashlight material for EDC use, where the light may impact the pavement. My Sapphire has been "drop tested" more than any other light in my collection, having hit concrete at least a few dozen times. Out of those multiple drops only one left a ding on the bezel that needed to be smoothed out with a diamond file.

Aluminum is dead soft, even in the T6 condition with HAIII anodizing. Stainless is almost as easily damaged as aluminum. Titanium endures more abuse than any other commonly available material.

 

[uknewbie]

Yeah when I said impact I meant impacting things on purpose!

Also, how well it does at is a matter of opinion. Depends on whether you care about the light having a ding or the thing it hit!

Different people have different needs uses for their lights remember.

 

[jumpstat]

I both own an aluminium and titanium McGizmo and I much prefer the titanium version as they handle abusive environment much better. My PD-s have character marks all over and rubbing marks due to its leather holster. The titanium models have micro scratches which is somewhat due to bare titanium oxidising with air.

Afaik I have yet to see McGizmo offering a stainless steel light. Nowadays titanium is all that is offered.

 

[Shooter21]

how about tungsten steel vs titanium? also is the 2aa mcgizmo the same price as the cr123 version?

 

[precisionworks]

how about tungsten steel vs titanium?

There are over a dozen steels that contain a high percentage of tungsten and can be called tungsten steels. Most are high speed tool steels like T1, T2, T4, T5, T6, T8 & T15. Others are hot work steels like H21, H22, H23, H24, H25 & H26. Tungsten percentage varies from a low of 13% in T15 to a high of 21% in T6. All are highly wear resistant which is the reason for the inclusion of tungsten in the mix. Most tungsten steels are used to make twist drills, reamers, broaches, punches, taps, milling cutters, etc.

 

[fyrstormer]

Let's review the physics of breaking things, shall we? Kinetic energy is equal to the mass multiplied by the velocity squared, divided by two. Higher velocity will have more of an effect than higher mass. If you want to use your flashlight to break stuff, the best way to get an optimal result is to practice until your muscles get faster.

As for pricing, the prices for McGizmo flashlights and parts can be found in the many sticky threads at the top of the thread list.

 

[fourdogs]

As others have said there are many types of SS. General speaking SS can have almost double the thermal conductivity of Titanium at least according to charts I've seen. It seems SS is almost as difficult to machine as Ti, so why not go exotic if the machining costs are similar. Ti lights have become a high end niche market. I love Ti too, but there's nothing inferior about a good SS light imo, and SS is not almost as soft as Aluminum. Stainless is steel. Not soft like aluminum used in flashlights.

Someone could offer SS lights with the same design and light engine as Ti at a substantially lower price because of the material cost difference. I see no reason why they wouldn't sell well....

 

[Obijuan Kenobe]

Isn't the primary reason Don uses Ti is because he lives on the ocean? I thought the corrosion resistance was a key consideration.

obi

 

[precisionworks]

Here are current prices from McMaster -Carr for 1" solid rod:

6 inches of type 316 stainless costs 22 dollars versus 50 dollars in Ti6-4. That means a 1 cell stainless light would sell for 30 dollars less than a titanium light based on the difference in material cost.

Cycle time in the machine is virtually identical because both materials are equally hard on tooling. Figure the same insert life, same turning/drilling/boring speeds, same depth of cut & feed, etc. 316 has no machinability advantage over Ti6-4.

Someone could offer SS lights with the same design and light engine as Ti at a substantially lower price because of the material cost difference.

99.99% of the people in the world would pay $30 more for Ti.

SS is not almost as soft as Aluminum. Stainless is steel. Not soft like aluminum used in flashlights.

Here are the published Brinell Hardness figures from ASM:

Aluminum 6061 T-6 95
http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MA6061t6

Type 316 Stainless 149
http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MQ316J

Titanium Ti-6Al-4V 334
http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MTP641

Type 316 Stainless is much closer in hardness to 6061 T-6 aluminum than it is to Ti6-4.

Stainless is almost as easily damaged as aluminum. Titanium endures more abuse than any other commonly available material.

Primarily because of the differences in hardness but Ti6-4 also has much greater impact resistance than either 316 or 6061.

 

[fyrstormer]

I have a couple SS lights, one of which is the Jetbeam E3S. It is noticeably heavier than any of my Gizmos, even with a lithium AA primary which is lighter than the RCR123s I use in my Gizmos.

I could see something like the Sapphire being small enough to make from SS without a noticeable difference in weight, but as precisionworks points out, the material cost is only slightly lower for SS and for a light as small as the Sapphire the difference would be even more negligible.

 

[fourdogs]

You can buy SS pipe on ebay super cheap. I'm betting you could fabricate some pretty nice lights out of 3/4 or 1 inch pipe. A smart light maker could offer some very affordable quality lights going that route.

pworks, you're comparing some of the hardest aluminum on the planet to stainless. What type of aluminum is you're typical aluminum light made of. I'm betting it's not T-6.

 

[McGizmo]

fourdogs,
I don't know what alloy of stainless the pipe is made of but the material cost pales in face of the machining cost anyway and it is quite likely that a piece of pipe doesn't allow one to design to optimal in regards to ideal ID and OD of a part. 6061 T6 is one of the most common alloy's of aluminum used these days and I know all of my aluminum parts have used this alloy. In fairness to the aluminum though, hard anodize gives you a harder surface albeit quite thin. If impact or abrasion doesn't compromise the anodize film then the aluminum will hold up even better than indicated by the properties of the parent material.

As suggested already, there are a number of reasons I never opted to work with 316 stainless as a material for flashlight heads and bodies. It's a nice metal though and certainly has its place.

 

[Drywolf]

pworks, you're comparing some of the hardest aluminum on the planet to stainless. What type of aluminum is you're typical aluminum light made of. I'm betting it's not T-6.

My new light is made of this:

Aluminum 7075 150
http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MA7075T6

:thumbsup:

 

[precisionworks]

What type of aluminum is you're typical aluminum light made of. I'm betting it's not T-6.

Lights that advertise "aircraft aluminum" are normally made from 6061 T-6 as it is the most commonly used alloy in the world. SF says their lights are made from "aerospace-grade" aluminum, likely meaning 7075 T-6 as it is the second most popular aircraft aluminum. Maglites are constructed from 6061 T-6.

7075 T-6 is a premium aluminum product that's a hard as mild steel & slightly harder than 316 stainless. Pricing on 7075 T-6 is about double the price of 6061 T-6. Not only is it much stronger than 6061 T-6 it also machines much more easily. The cost of 7075 is sometimes justified by the greatly reduced cycle time in the machine.

My new light is made of 7075 ...

In the readily available aluminum alloys, 7075 is the top dog

 

[Shooter21]

its unfortunate that more companies dont use 7075 aluminum, id say hds lights should use that since they are expensive.

 

[precisionworks]

its unfortunate that more companies don't use 7075 aluminum, id say hds lights should use that since they are expensive.

+1

Not only is it much stronger it's also a pleasure to machine. 6061 is well known for being "gummy" ... sometimes it machines well & other days it seems impossible to achieve a good finish even when using special aluminum specific tooling. 7075 machines more easily, possibly because it's harder or perhaps because of the different chemical composition, but it runs noticeably better.

A flashlight made of 7075 T6 would weigh 1/3 as much as 316 stainless and have slightly better mechanical properties (hardness being one of the most attractive).