Stand by for LED cop light "goodness"

[aznsx]

Some incan Strion love
Left the 'improved grip' version with a (iirc) 150 lumen TeraLUX upgrade. It's definitely brighter

These were great in their day.

A history thing / question today:

I don't recall when I bought mine, and (more to the point) am not certain when it (the original Strion) was released. I'm certain I still have the paperwork stashed, but the one I bought was finished as the one on the left of frame here, so it likely wasn't the earliest.

Over time I've randomly thrown a question in with my posts a number of times, but no one has ever attempted to answer it. Tag - you're it:

This light was exactly what I needed in my professional situation. It offered a truly professional-grade, high performance, ~6" class flashlight with proper tailcap pushbutton switch, in a system solution incorporating lithium ion power supply(ies) with purpose-built integrated charging solution(s) .

A). At the time of its release (the model itself, not my specific revision), what other flashlight manufacturer in the world (if any) had a system like that (including all those elements) on the market to offer me (and others with whom I worked) as an alternative [and if someone did, when was it released - if you happen to know]?

B). If the answer to 'A' is none, how long would it be before another manufacturer did offer such a flashlight system?

If anyone is going to answer this one for me, it'll likely be you Byk, so I thought I'd just direct it right at you

EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm not actually trying to just put this on ol' Byk exclusively. I realize there are plenty of people who were around the flashlight world during those days, and certainly others may know the answer(s) as well. If so, I'd be most appreciative of any info which anyone might see fit to contribute, so do feel free to chime in! I only directed the question this time because when I floated it in the past, no one ever took a stab at it. Perhaps they thought I'd posed it rhetorically. That wasn't the case, as I actually don't know the answer and would like to know the answer myself. I was busy working too many hours in that time period to even think about the flashlight market, so I was 'tuned out' and missed a lot. I was too busy using my lights to care about the market.

 

[bykfixer]

I'll be quite honest AZ, I don't know that anybody ever did a cradle charge light that size even to this day.
SureFire had rechargeable lights in the round head 6p days but it was like 3-3/4 CR123 length. And the battery charged outside of the light. Not sure about the 9N's and such but I think those too had a charger for the battery outside the light.

Member Abtomat would probably know if any active members here know.

Early in rechargeable days Qualcom did some battery/tailcap charger numbers but they were for D sized lights. No, the SL20 then Stinger, and Strion were in a class by themselves for a while. Maglite did the Magcharger to compete with the SL20 and until recently had not done a Stinger sized light until the 019 (? Maybe 17 or 18?) ML150. But man I do like that 2C sized ML150 shorty (LRS).

 

[knucklegary]

How old is the one on the right?

I bought the early incan from a gun shop on sale at least ten years ago.. I also owned SL C4, but the incan's had me spoiled to warm beam tints. When LED came out it blew me away how stark white it appeared. I actually went back to my incan lights for few years before returning to LED's.

Can't teach old dogs new tricks?

 

[ABTOMAT]

The original fully knurled Strion ran from 2003-2007 give or take. The ribbed one replaced it, and the LED version later. Despite bykfixer's vote of confidence "modern" lights aren't really in my wheelhouse and I don't know any more than he does. I think he's right, however. The Strion is the smallest cradle-charging light I remember seeing and I wouldn't be surprised if it was the first li-ion light out there. In fact the only other new rechargable light with a cradle from that time period I can think of was the Surefire 10X, and that wasn't small (or very successful.) The original Stinger was nicd and a couples inches longer; it'd been out since around 1993. Previous smallest one was the SL-15 from the '70s, like a shorter plastic SL-20.

Streamlight definitely hit the ground running. There were several different brands of D-cell lights with optional chargers but Streamlight was the first designed that way from the start, with the stick batteries and halogen bulbs.

 

[hsa]

I had a Surefire 9N and it had a cradle charger. You slid the light into it through two loops and it charged for 12 hours, I think. It was NiCad and a charge didn't last long but it was really a slick light and bright. It was 140 lumens and it cost $165 at a cop store.
It did charge the battery in the light.

 

[ABTOMAT]

I had a Surefire 9N and it had a cradle charger. You slid the light into it through two loops and it charged for 12 hours, I think. It was NiCad and a charge didn't last long but it was really a slick light and bright. It was 140 lumens and it cost $165 at a cop store.
It did charge the battery in the light.

Good catch, I'd forgotten about that. That came out in the mid '90s so it was competition to the first Stinger. Wonder why it didn't catch on. I've never seen one for sale that looked police surplus. I had a 6R for a while from that period.

 

[aznsx]

Thanks for the info so far. It's all of value and interest to me.

Not to get too picky here, but in my post I deliberately emphasized lithium ion in italics (which I should have 'bolded' also for even more emphasis as I did some other terms, because for my own interest in the subject at the moment, that is a required criterion for this question. I'm not just interested in cradle charged lights, but specifically those using a lithium ion power supply. I need not tell anyone here just how important that was in the big picture, as you all use them today (lithium ion cells) and appreciate their advantages today. So, I want to know the first company who realized that and brought it to the market segment as part of that 'system'. I was aware of other NiCD and NiMH based products. Size was also critical for me though, which, along with the lack of that feature (lithium ion power), is why I'm discounting the Stingers and some others for the purpose of this specific question as they were rather larger lights. They may have been / were milestones in their own way, but at the moment, I'm interested in lights that matched all the Strion criteria. It was that complete package / combination of things which I consider to be the larger milestone here.

I'm assuming that the SF 6's and 9's that Byk mentioned being rechargeable also lacked lithium ion technology (probably NiCAD or NiMH?), so while interesting to me, are (if so) also outside of my criteria in answering my very specific question.

I view that form factor & category of the Strion with all its features as being nothing short of revolutionary and ground breaking (if it was indeed first), and view it as arguably just about as critical to flashlight development history as, for example the first '6-inch, 6-volt' tailswitch light with a gas-filled bulb', which I suppose the 6P was the benchmark / milestone light with that title(?) (thanks to the CR123A element). I assume it came before my Scorpions, and I view those 6"/6V gas bulb lights as also being among the most major milestones / breakthroughs in flashlight development.

So far I guess no one is aware of a light which actually matches all the criteria of the Strion that I'm interested in, and if we can't come up with any, that would make the Strion a uniquely innovative product. I'll put off that conclusion until I see what others might recall. So if it was, how long was it uniquely innovative? Well, ....

I can throw one answer out there for the B) question, although I don't consider it a very good one. If no other company matched all aspects of the incan Strion design at the time it was released, I can tell you the first one I recall following that. By the time I went from the incan Strion to the LED version and had used that for several years also, and finally found some time off the check out the then-current flashlight market (2014 / 2015), I believe I recall that Fenix offered a very blatant / obvious knockoff copy of the Strion LED light / system which I think matched all the criteria in my A) question. I believe it was called the RC-40, although I wouldn't swear to that. That was, however some years after the Strion LED I had bought, and a good many years after the incan Strion we're currently discussing, and thus was long after what SL had done. Nevertheless, that might be an answer to B) if the answer to A) turns out to be none, and I give some credit to someone who is smart enough to copy something that revolutionary, so if it was the first after the Strion, I guess the Fenix light counts for B) in my book. EDIT: I believe the Fenix light I referred to was actually the RC20, NOT the RC40. I slipped a bit.

 

[hsa]

@ABTOMAT. I believe it didn't catch on because in spite of all of it's obvious "whiz bang" it was impractical in actual use mostly because of the battery chemistry. Ni Cad had a terrible charging protocol. It didn't like to be partially discharged. I suppose users of the time figured out that the 9p would serve them better. What really changed things was the use of Li Ion which is, I think, why @aznsx is trying to chase down the history of that product.
The light was sure a showstopper though but I soon found out that I liked a Pelican Pro 4c better. It did lead me to buy a 3p though which I also didn't use much and traded in new condition a few years ago straight up for a new Nitecore P30 which I use a lot.

 

[bykfixer]

The gas filled bulb was long before the 6" 6 volt. Sounds like a Subway sandwich. That one may have gone back to the Edi-stone age with argon gas but I'm not sure. Now in the modern world krypton was the next big thing. That was either Don Keller or Tony Maglica who was the first to develop that. Each will say it was him that did it first. It seems like Don tried it, developed it and named it but because Tony sold it.... you get the point.

I don't believe SureFire was the first to use the CR123 in a flashlight. But they developed the market for it. I feel like I read Tekna did a dive light before the first 6P but could be wrong. And don't know who did xenon first. But was told by a player in the game the 6" 6 volt by SureFire had an ever evolving mixture of krypton and xenon. Krypton somehow causes tiny burnt filament particles to re-attach to the filament prolonging bulb life while burning brighter than argon. It's one reason why Maglite krypton's lasted so long. Xenon burns even brighter. When Maglite did a PR base xenon bulb they really had something. Not as hot as a halogen but much brighter than a krypton.

To note about PR, it stands for pre-focus. Some call it bayonet base but a bayonet base twists to lock in place. The PR does not. In the 1940's Eveready took note of this new PR base bulb in cars and radios. It was replacing the E10 (screw in Edison 10mm) socket. They started using it in their products and soon after everybody else did. Believe it or not, before the PR a lot of flashlights had adjustable heads to focus the round globe E10 bulb for a better forward throw. Hence the term pre-focus. With it's tear drop tip it sent light forward better and was a simple plug and play instead a cumbersome screw in. When seconds mattered the PR base was a boon.

 

[michiganstud]

I got my Lumens Factory 800 lumen Stinger Classic upgrade. She's a NOPE!

First page it comes with says it will get hot around 20 minutes in. So hot they recommend SHUTTING IT DOWN TO COOL.

I'm done with "upgrades". Anything upgraded just means it's not meant for the light and will get so hot it will meltdown. Unless you wanna use it for 5 minutes at a time.

Also the two wires that plug into the light are so thin they are already bent enough to where I can't get them to line up to install.

Sending it back.

 

[ABTOMAT]

@ABTOMAT. I believe it didn't catch on because in spite of all of it's obvious "whiz bang" it was impractical in actual use mostly because of the battery chemistry. Ni Cad had a terrible charging protocol. It didn't like to be partially discharged. I suppose users of the time figured out that the 9p would serve them better. What really changed things was the use of Li Ion which is, I think, why @aznsx is trying to chase down the history of that product.

Don't think that adds up, since the Strion came out a decade after the 9N. All the other lights in the '90s from Streamlight and Mag-Lite were NiCd as well and they remained so for a long time even after the Strion was introduced.

 

[hsa]

That's a good point. I don't know the run times and outputs of the other lights but the 9n was 40 minutes and it really didn't quite make that. Maybe the other ones had lower output and longer run times.

 

[Olumin]

The 9N didn't catch on because it was the equivalent of almost $400 in the 90s. I cant imagine availability for the average LEO was great either. It was a ultimately a gimmick too expensive to justify over less expensive options, which were good enough. Low runtime probably was a factor too. It is a very cool, high quality light tho & one of my favorites. I love the look of it.

By the way, I dont think a cradle charger was ever available for the 9N. The cell had to be charged outside the light.

 

[chillinn]

I'm done with "upgrades". Anything upgraded just means it's not meant for the light and will get so hot it will meltdown.

Yeah. But 800 Lumens, tho. How many is it normally?

What a lot of folks do is carry two lights. Maybe that's not practical for a cop to carry two Stingers. At night around home, where I'm usually outside and it is very dark, I've been carrying three single mode incan lights, one ~20Lm with long runtime, one ~80Lm with decent runtime, and one ~150Lm that I hardly use. Doesn't sound like a lot of light, but it is really dark here and even 20Lm lights up the yard. If I need more, my other lights are right inside.

New moon tomorrow night.

 

[hsa]

Mine had a cradle charger. Notice in the photo above the steel ring at the tail. They had a choice between slow and fast chargers. I chose the slow, I don't know what the fast charger looked like, maybe it was outside the light.
Expense could have been a big part of it. It doesn't stop anyone now. We buy $450 ice chests now.

 

[Olumin]

Mine had a cradle charger. Notice in the photo above the steel ring at the tail. They had a choice between slow and fast chargers. I chose the slow, I don't know what the fast charger looked like, maybe it was outside the light.

Do you have a picture, part number or anything? Id like to look it up because Ive never seen one.

It doesn't stop anyone now. We buy $450 ice chests now.

But how many people buy $400 flashlights? Nerds like us.

 

[hsa]

I have the users manual. Model 9N500 series. Flashlight & constant current charger. My kid, the detective has it but I think it is a good conversation piece. He uses a Pelican 7600 just like me.

 

[ABTOMAT]

The 9N didn't catch on because it was the equivalent of almost $400 in the 90s. I cant imagine availability for the average LEO was great either. It was a ultimately a gimmick too expensive to justify over less expensive options, which were good enough. Low runtime probably was a factor too. It is a very cool, high quality light tho & one of my favorites. I love the look of it.

By the way, I dont think a cradle charger was ever available for the 9N. The cell had to be charged outside the light.

There were two chargers available. Maybe the light charger was optional? Found a pic online.

 

[hsa]

That's it.

 

[Olumin]

Thanks guys.